Court: Transgender Illegal Immigrant Felon Can't Be Deported

a reply to: marg6043

Still if you have your male parts you are still a man and actually no matter if they have genitalia mutilation to become a women they will always have a male DNA.

I have to agree.

Because no amount of big pharmaceuticals. No amount of surgeries can change the XY,XX chromosomes.

No matter what pronoun someone uses.

No one can change genetics.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neo96

I guess someone missed this.

I guess someone missed this. Which someone themselves posted.

Another survey found that 76% of homosexuals in Mexico had been subject to violence, 53% of which had occurred in public places.

Sure didn't miss it.

Which is why i followed it up with the immigration issue.

HE will still be facing it here.

Which was the entire 'point' of the courts decision to 'escape' his 'persecution' where he will find NONE.

a reply to: neo96

Exactly and while I am all for the happiness of my fellow human beings even if they have sex change, I have to be realistic and sciences doesn't lie, you will die with the same DNA you were born.

I am not afraid to bring that issue either.

a reply to: neo96

HE will still be facing it here.

Can you cite similar statistics for violence against LBGT in the US?

a reply to: marg6043

And that same DNA can make it so you feel you are not what you were born.

If we are going to do this you are what you are talk then it has a flip side.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neo96

HE will still be facing it here.

Can you cite similar statistics for violence against LBGT in the US?

Already did.

Even you quoted it.

Now how many of the 10 to 30 million illegals from Mexico 'HATE' LGBTS and transgenders.

From those earlier quotes statistics there is going to be quite a few.

to: sremmos80 and phage

Any time you add an entry to a list of qualifying characteristics, you increase the number of people who might qualify. And you also increase the number of people who will attempt, by various means of deception, to take advantage of that qualification.

I know that wasn't the qualifying factor for this person this time. But what about all the people looking for a loophole who read that and the little light goes off over their head? Somewhere out there right now is an illegal alien who is wondering if he acts like a transsexual, and dresses the part, and pleads for LEGAL refugee status that would otherwise be denied to HIM, if it will work. If it is possible, it will happen. Sooner or later, it will happen.

I don't want to get into a long drawn out semantic battle or an in depth discussion of the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual. I really don't care what name you put on them. Put lids on their heads and call them garbage cans if you want. If you make it a qualifying characteristic for legal refugee status, you will soon see more people walking around with garbage can lids on their heads waiting for someone to hand them legal citizenship.

a reply to: neo96

Already did. Even you quoted it.

No. Those were statistics for Mexico.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You are the one bringing up the semantics...

Refugee status has always been there, it will always be there and people will always try and use it.

This adds nothing new.
No one is saying transsexual equals auto refugee, well the ones taking the story out of context are.

It also muddies things when you think transvestites and transsexuals are the same, so you think that all this person is doing is putting on a dress and claiming things.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Any time you add an entry to a list of qualifying characteristics, you increase the number of people who might qualify.

How is avoiding persecution "adding" a qualification? Is it bad to allow people to avoid persecution?

And you also increase the number of people who will attempt, by various means of deception, to take advantage of that qualification.

Huh. So I guess that means that everyone should be considered guilty because some people take advantage of the notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

If you make it a qualifying characteristic for legal refugee status, you will soon see more people walking around with garbage can lids on their heads waiting for someone to hand them legal citizenship.

Except that that would not happen.

This sounds to me like transgender people are getting special rights. I thought this wasn't supposed to happen?

a reply to: neo96

What matters is a habitual drunk driver fled to this country, and torture, and abuse was never proven.

So one more to add to the millions of habitual drunks we already have residing here? Why not? Torture and abuse was never proven? Why, because you weren't there to witness it for yourself?

People can will fully break US laws and get rewarded for it.

Again, we've already got millions of those right here. This is nothing new, and I'd be willing to bet real money that you break various laws yourself on a routine basis and never think anything of it, either. I know I do, and so does every other person in my life. I'm breaking at least three, right this second.

And THAT is a country people want to live in.

I don't.

I want to live in a country where the LAW applies to EVERYONE.

I think it would be far more accurate to say that you want to live in a country where the laws can be applied to EVERYONE...as you see fit. All those laws you go around breaking every day? Imagine if you suddenly were to be held accountable for them, all at one time...I think your passion on the subject would take a substantial nosedive in that case.

Being transgender get you one thing - a nice prominent place on the front page & a lot of attention.
And probably some very careful deciding from whatever judge you happen to be in front of.
Which equates to special treatment. Sometimes even free treatment. For something that I would consider to be elective surgery. like a nose job. Dressing the part & taking hormones indicates intention to be the other gender, but unless you go through the "procedure" I think you should be using the facilities that match your equipment.

School are going through contortions to accommodate "transgender" students, and the definition is so loose that "identifying" as the other sex get you access to the other sex's locker room, which seems to be unfair to the students who "identify" with their original equipment. This is Federally mandated I believe. So the rights of the transgender (at any stage) preempt the other students.

And the other immigrants seeking asylum. I suspect (of course I can't be sure) that the bar to qualify for asylum in this case was lower than for other asylum seekers. Transgender = FRONT PAGE + ILLEGAL ALIEN = FRONT PAGE == very careful judges who want to be re-elected, re-appointed or whatever. And being transillegalgenderalienphobic would be a career killer.....

And anyone of the some 8BN people on this planet having a crappy time in whatever #hole can just come on over here to the good ol USA and everything will be OK. The back door's open....

a reply to: SolRozenberg

And the other immigrants seeking asylum. I suspect (of course I can't be sure) that the bar to qualify for asylum in this case was lower than for other asylum seekers.

You suspect wrong.
lawstreetmedia.com...

And anyone of the some 8BN people on this planet having a crappy time in whatever #hole can just come on over here to the good ol USA and everything will be OK.

Yeah. Those damn Irish never should have been allowed in.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

You are the one bringing up the semantics...

Refugee status has always been there, it will always be there and people will always try and use it.

This adds nothing new.
No one is saying transsexual equals auto refugee, well the ones taking the story out of context are.

It also muddies things when you think transvestites and transsexuals are the same, so you think that all this person is doing is putting on a dress and claiming things.

Its not that I think every transvestite or transsexual is just playing a game of dress up. But I do believe that there will be people who will just put on the clothes and the act if they think it will get them some refugee status they would not get otherwise. And apparently, I am not alone in thinking that this is a real possibility. I am not saying that is what this case is or that the next one or the one after that will be. But somewhere down the line, someone will look at this event and think they can use it to their advantage.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

But somewhere down the line, someone will look at this event and think they can use it to their advantage.

Yes I agree, and I would bet this isn't the first one to do it.
So it would be debatable that this incident opened the door.

We don't know how these court proceedings went down, what proof was required and how it was vetted.
So we don't know what door was opened with out knowing that.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Any time you add an entry to a list of qualifying characteristics, you increase the number of people who might qualify.

How is avoiding persecution "adding" a qualification? Is it bad to allow people to avoid persecution?

And you also increase the number of people who will attempt, by various means of deception, to take advantage of that qualification.

Huh. So I guess that means that everyone should be considered guilty because some people take advantage of the notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

If you make it a qualifying characteristic for legal refugee status, you will soon see more people walking around with garbage can lids on their heads waiting for someone to hand them legal citizenship.

Except that that would not happen.

Its not that the event is avoiding persecution is new. Its that this is a new form of persecution as it applies to legal refugee status.

I don't think everyone should automatically be considered guilty. But I don't think we should automatically assume that no one will ever try to exploit this path to legal refugee status either.

What if today you heard about an illegal alien who is seeking legal refugee status, and thereby US citizenship, because he is severely overweight and if deported to his country of origin he would be persecuted because he looks different? If persecution is wrong no matter what the reason, and he truly will be persecuted if he returns to his country of origin, do we open that door to any illegal alien who is overweight and give them another path to legal citizenship when the law would dictate deportation?

Yes, I know that sounds a little outrageous. But it wasn't all that long ago that the idea of a transsexual being granted refugee status would be considered as outrageous too.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Its not that I think every transvestite or transsexual is just playing a game of dress up. But I do believe that there will be people who will just put on the clothes and the act if they think it will get them some refugee status they would not get otherwise. And apparently, I am not alone in thinking that this is a real possibility. I am not saying that is what this case is or that the next one or the one after that will be. But somewhere down the line, someone will look at this event and think they can use it to their advantage.

This is likely quite true. Human beings in general are opportunistic creatures. We take advantage of things every day. People are always going to do this. The problem is, while there are probably going to be illegals who try to use this as a desperate last ditch at avoiding deportation, it is not opening a channel for such things to become commonplace, and that is what was being suggested in the OP.

Now of course, since the OP was shown to be completely inaccurate and a misrepresentation of actual events, the reasoning has gone from gender to "habitual drunk" instead, but the insinuation here actually was that allowing this one transgender illegal to "get out of jail free", is going to start a rash of large quantities of illegals trying to claim gender reassignment as a reason for remaining here in this country, and that simply is not the case at all.

That is where the distinction comes in: dressing up in opposite gender clothing is not even remotely the same as someone who truly feels that they were meant to be of the opposite gender entirely. It is tantamount to trivializing what is a very real and personal life struggle to even suggest otherwise, and when they get lumped together like that, it is precisely what is occurring.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Its that this is a new form of persecution as it applies to legal refugee status.

New?

The term "refugee" means (A) any person who is outside any country of such person's nationality or, in the case of a person having no nationality, is outside any country in which such person last habitually resided, and who is unable or unwilling to return to, and is unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, that country because of persecution or a well- founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion,

uscode.regstoday.com...

I don't think everyone should automatically be considered guilty. But I don't think we should automatically assume that no one will ever try to exploit this path to legal refugee status either.

I think it's pretty much assumed that it would actually be the case. That's why such claims are subject to scrutiny.

What if today you heard about an illegal alien who is seeking legal refugee status, and thereby US citizenship, because he is severely overweight and if deported to his country of origin he would be persecuted because he looks different?

I don't think overweight qualifies but he would be within his rights to seek asylum and for a judge to make a determination.

My God it's something that doesn't affect me in any way! This is so dangerous! AHH!