US Space Fleet

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Your saying that if the US military were to find an actual abandoned alien spacecraft they wouldn't reverse engineer it?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

They would certainly try.There may be laws of physics we haven't discovered, materials we have no idea how to manufacture/duplicate, ect. It would be painstakingly slow unless we had some kind of data repository that was understandable to decypher and expand our knowledge base. We probably wouldn't even know where to start or what we were looking at to begin with. It might take a team a decade just to find the equlivlent of an "on switch".

If you traveled back in time with a B-2 stealth bomber to WWII -- do you think the Germans would be able to detect it via their primitive radar systems? This is the same situation. These black projects are working on a totally other level.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have a question for you: What happens to the fleet in a SHTF Scenario where humanity somehow got bombed back to stone age?

Alien tech even only 100 years advanced from us would be very hard to reverse engineer.

Think about it. Take any PC from today, and send it back 100 years to the year 1915.

Do you honestly think that the people back in 1915 would be able to reverse engineer the PC's motherboard, CPU, etc, etc?

They'd most likely figure out how to apply power and get it turned on, and once on, realize what it was for. But in order to understand any further, they would have to take it apart and dissect all the electronics.

Considering that semiconductors were not even around then, and then couple that with the density of a CPU.....all they would be doing is destroying the only working PC. Even if they somehow did figure out what the CPU itself was made up of, it would take decades to make the same thing considering the high tech we use to make CPUs now.

What if their tech is 1,000 years ahead of us? Imagine sending a PC back to the year 1015. There's not even electricity around to turn it on yet (unless you sent a laptop, tablet, etc with a battery, and then it's only going to work as long as the battery lasts, and then it would be shut down, with no way to charge it again).

I'm not saying we could never figure it out. But as Mystic said: depending on how far advanced it is, it could take decades or even longer to simply figure out, much less replicate it.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The Chinese 727 is a great example of how well that would work. They copied one of the three Boeing 727s they were sold as part of an attempt to open the trade door. They showed it to one of the Boeing higher ups during a visit and he said it would have taken a gorilla to fly it, because the controls were so stiff.

That was starting with roughly equal technology.

Humans reverse engineer things all the time from their enemies or competition, i.e. weapons, missiles, software, data, electronics, etc...

Now an alien ship visiting our planet would most likely be made up of elements that we are familiar with because the aliens are visiting our planet and not say the center of Jupiter or methane lakes on Titan. The craft would be meant for Earth and probably built on a planet that is similar to Earth.

There very well could be some unknown factors but based on UFO lore it seems we figured it out. You can know watch, listen or read about scientists brainstorming on how to travel the stars.

So there is no argument really that we can't back engineer alien craft because we have, you can look up theories on how a flying saucer works. The argument is did we in fact do this or is it all a made up story and lies?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If you traveled back in time with a B-2 stealth bomber to WWII -- do you think the Germans would be able to detect it via their primitive radar systems? This is the same situation. These black projects are working on a totally other level.

IF you let me use my PC I'll detect a B2 using WWII radar...tain't that hard man. You are giving the government way too much credit...they are stuck with the very same technology as we are, they just use it better...Nothing is stopping us from better utilization of existing technology.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: tanka418

It's not just signal amplification that the NGV's use. They also allow other spectrums to be seen (among other tweaks).

Basically, what I'm saying is that the gear being used now is trying to look for something that is known. You can't find something that you don't know exists.

So I'm guessing you don't know quite how night vision works! That's okay...although the technology is prolly pushing 50 years now...and it works by amplifying the light signal...they used to call it "light multiplication", probably still do. And, yes, that technology will allow you to "see" into the infrared...

That's the thing; we can look for unknowns. If I have an image of some stars and I see something I don't recognize...I've just found the unknown, and I now know it exists. I can collect parametric data on this "unknown", over time and with "a little help from my friends" (other engineers and scientists) we can identify this "unknown" and know much about it. That's what scientific instruments are for...the exploration of the unknown and the learning from what we discover.

The only thing a government could have over me/us technologically speaking is a very little bit of innovation in the application of that technology...nothing prevents us from applying a little bit of innovation...just like the government.

a reply to: eriktheawful

They don't even have the manufacturing tools to duplicate the components. Were taking clean rooms with nanometer percision. It's like being at the bottom of the stairs and trying to get to the top with the stairs in between missing, and not knowing how to build the stairs you need. You can see the top, but you can't get from where you are to there.


Our own technology would have to advance along its own time table far enough until we got kind of close in order to understand the concepts, materials, and functions of the various systems. Its one thing to reverse engineer a computer from another company if you already make fairly similar computers using similar principles.

a reply to: tanka418

You do realize that a lot of our consumer technology is hand-me-down stuff from the defense industry, right? Most of the big breakthroughs happened because the miliary had a need for that tech.

Just because it takes forever for the government to send you a new passport doesn't mean that they are incompetent and behind in other areas.

If you don't know the concepts and how the parts work together, you'll never figure out how a system works. We might see a piece of alien technology do something, and understand, "OK that heals cuts instantly..." but that is a far cry from understanding HOW it does it, and how to replicate it using human-made parts. Huge jump, huge!

That is assuming we even have a demonstration of the alien technology. Hell, there are features on my smart phone Im still discovering. Imagine something 100, 1,000 years more advanced. I wouldn't even know that if I did certain things, other things would happen.

a reply to: tanka418

We didn't know bacteria existed until we created tools that enabled us to see them. The same with the BBT's. The tools to find and detect them simply aren't in the hands of civilians.

There were probably people in the 60's that would argue until they were red in the face that a plane with the flight characteristics and abilities of the blackbird were simply impossible -- after all, the government uses the same stuff the amature, garage scientists do right?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: tanka418

You do realize that a lot of our consumer technology is hand-me-down stuff from the defense industry, right? Most of the big breakthroughs happened because the miliary had a need for that tech.

Did you know that the most important bit of technology extant today was NOT developed by the military. nor even for the military.

I'm referring to the microprocessor...which was developed by Intel in the very late 1960's and early 70's. It started life as a "programmable controller" and very quickly took root and led to the computer technology we enjoy now...and...there isn't much difference between that old Intel 4004 and the i7 I'm sporting today...except in scale.

If you don't know the concepts and how the parts work together, you'll never figure out how a system works. We might see a piece of alien technology do something, and understand, "OK that heals cuts instantly..." but that is a far cry from understanding HOW it does it, and how to replicate it using human-made parts. Huge jump, huge!

That is assuming we even have a demonstration of the alien technology. Hell, there are features on my smart phone Im still discovering. Imagine something 100, 1,000 years more advanced. I wouldn't even know that if I did certain things, other things would happen.

Well, I thought we were talking about government vs civilian technology, but IF you want to include ET...so be it.

Probability very strongly suggests that ET ISN'T all that advanced, and probably only has one or two cool tricks, and nothing more. Further, as terrestrial technology reveals itself today, it seems that ET is slipping ever closer to our level.

Seriously man...Earth has artificial gravity, field drives, and even "warp" drives...the ability to travel to another star is less than 100 years away, and the largest road block is the actual resources to build such a craft...the craft itself is mostly done...as far as technology is concerned.

And, when that first Terrestrial warp ship is deployed...my telescope will be able to detect it, even as it goes to "warp".

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: tanka418

We didn't know bacteria existed until we created tools that enabled us to see them. The same with the BBT's. The tools to find and detect them simply aren't in the hands of civilians.

Actually the existence of "bacteria" was postulated long before the actual discovery...And you are wrong...the tools needed ARE in the hands of civilians But, there are always those who will continue to argue that the "Earth is flat".

There were probably people in the 60's that would argue until they were red in the face that a plane with the flight characteristics and abilities of the blackbird were simply impossible -- after all, the government uses the same stuff the amature, garage scientists do right?

Ya know, I'm sure there were some like that. But, anyone back in that day who knew anything at all about flight probably cheered at the plane, understanding it all, and thinking; "its about time!"

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Smart phones 100 years from now might just be hardwired to your brain and all you have to do is think and the phone will work. Technology becomes more advanced, efficient, and sophisticated. Such as the evolution of turning a key to start a car now you can just push a button or say "start".

Are we not trying to evolve from complicated engines and motors to something more clean and energy efficient?

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Smart phones 100 years from now might just be hardwired to your brain and all you have to do is think and the phone will work. Technology becomes more advanced, efficient, and sophisticated. Such as the evolution of turning a key to start a car now you can just push a button or say "start".

Are we not trying to evolve from complicated engines and motors to something more clean and energy efficient?

Not the best example...

Way back in the 1920's, to sometime in the 60's you used the key to apply primary power...not unlike what your smart phone does today in a modern car. After that One would step on a "button"...it was a crude way of engaging the starter gear. After that, and in the car I learned to drive in; one simply pushed a dash mounted button...The biggest difference existing is the use of radio to turn on the car's primary power...it took all this time just to think of it...since it was possible to do it that way since around 1930 or so...

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Smart phones 100 years from now might just be hardwired to your brain and all you have to do is think and the phone will work. Technology becomes more advanced, efficient, and sophisticated. Such as the evolution of turning a key to start a car now you can just push a button or say "start".

Are we not trying to evolve from complicated engines and motors to something more clean and energy efficient?

Not the best example...

Way back in the 1920's, to sometime in the 60's you used the key to apply primary power...not unlike what your smart phone does today in a modern car. After that One would step on a "button"...it was a crude way of engaging the starter gear. After that, and in the car I learned to drive in; one simply pushed a dash mounted button...The biggest difference existing is the use of radio to turn on the car's primary power...it took all this time just to think of it...since it was possible to do it that way since around 1930 or so...

Acually it was possible but it would not have been secure. Anyone would have been able to start your car.

It wasn't until the famous Hollywood actress/scientist Hedy Lamarr came up with spread spectrum communications during WWII that it became secure.

a reply to: tanka418

Well, the first electric computer was built for the military:

ENIAC (/ˈini.æk/ or /ˈɛni.æk/; Electronic Numerical Integrator And Computer)[1][2][3] was the first electronic general-purpose computer. It was Turing-complete, digital, and capable of being reprogrammed to solve "a large class of numerical problems." [4][5]

Though ENIAC was designed and primarily used to calculate artillery firing tables for theUnited States Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory,[6][7] its first programs included a study of the feasibility of the hydrogen bomb.[8]

Wikipedia

And lets not forget a big one...the internet itself! We wouldn't even be discussing this if it hadn't been for the military! (No, sorry Al Gore, you did not invent the internet lol).

The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) was an early packet switching network and the first network to implement the protocol suite TCP/IP. Both technologies became the technical foundation of the Internet. ARPANET was initially funded by the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) of the United States Department of Defense.[1][2][3][4][5

Wikipedia

Oh, and the GPS system, microwaves, and duct tape....glorious duct tape!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Look, to detect something that is 50 to 100 years more advanced in optical, radar, EM stealth -- you are going to need sensing devices and "cameras" that are also 50 to 100 years more advanced. If your competitor is using a GPS and mapping software and you have a sextant and an out dated map -- youre going to always be behind.

The best and brightest, the top 1% get picked up by the defense industry and the military. Smarter scientists are working on these projects than the people out there peering up looking at the sky.

"I have a camera pointed at the sky, why can't I see anything?" Well, because the technology you are using to look isn't advanced enough. Those black triangles are using really exotic technology that current top civilian scientists can only theoriize exists.

So people see black triangles apparently all the time and think they are some super technology 100 years more advanced right?

But a low light security camera which sees into the near infrared cannot?

You don't see a problem here?

As for the black triangles the prevailing theory is that they are just rigid airships.

Yes. Blimps. A technology from 100 years ago.

a reply to: JadeStar

If its a blimp it must be made of some exotic materials that enable it to travel at high velocity and execute g force crushing turns and stops. Either way, its using technology not available to the masses.

I dont think people see them "all the time" ... sightings are pretty rare. I know of only a handful of actual photos. If you see one it's either because they didnt think they needed to be hidden, or they wanted to be seen.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: JadeStar

If its a blimp it must be made of some exotic materials that enable it to travel at high velocity and execute g force crushing turns and stops.

Anyone have video of that actually happening?