ISIS are not Muslims, Zionist are not Jews, Westboro Baptist are not Christians.

a reply to: Isurrender73

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

I dont like religion in general because it becomes a game of words and interpretations.

In the quote above you can see "Oppression is worse than murder."

Some will look at it as "we shouldnt oppress because its worse than murder" while others will look at it as "Murdering our oppressor is not as bad as being oppressed by him" That can give them "excuses" to murder.

What does oppress mean to different people? In the US some Christians feel oppressed when they are stopped from oppressing others or when they cant continue to do their bigotry.

There could have been Muslims who could have felt oppressed by people who dont want them to be bigots. Example:

Muslim 1 "My belief is that girls shouldnt go to school." Muslim 2 "Actually they should go to school." Muslim 1 "You are oppressing me."


In the quote you can also see "If they attack you, you may kill them."

Here it becomes a game of definitions. What do you want the word "attack" to mean?

For some "attack" might mean being physically attacked while for others "attack" might include being disrespected by people who dont follow their beliefs, or feeling oppressed.

Its not specific, which is why religions end up having thousands of secs. One will say "Allah/God wants it this way", others will say "Allah/God wants it that way." Then the debate of "Who are the true Muslims, Christians, etc." come up.

Who are the true Christians? If they are the ones who follow the Bible word for word then the Westboro Baptist Church is up there. The women in that church dont even speak while they are inside their church, why? Because they follow what the Bible says.

I suppose that the Lord will tell me if I am a disciple or not, when the time comes. Kill me while I am sleeping, makes no matter to me, this life of coffee and cigarettes has gotten quite stale.

I would hope to live though.

if you are being honest with yourself then you do not get to tell anyone what religion they are - and that included ISIS, Westborough and Zionists.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Woodcarver

Only in self defence in the Quran.

Now you know.

So which parts of the quran are isis using to justify their deeds? Or are they using the hadith?

ISIS use hadith books to justify suicide bombings despite the fact that the Quran clearly forbids suicide. Killing of homosexuals and apostates? Also endorsed by hadith books. There is no death sentence in the Quran for apostates or homosexuals. Forced conversion with death threat? Only found in hadith books.

[Quran 2:256] There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
[Quran 4:29]And do not kill yourselves. Surely, God is Most Merciful to you.

These nutcases are a walking contradiction. You see them waving the Quran around, reciting it out loud and claim to follow it but are in fact the farthest from it. Their so called sharia law is derived from hadith books. Bunch of bloodthirsty scumbags. They claim to commit their crimes in the name of Islam while breaking every Quranic command.

[Quran 2:11]And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
[Quran 2:8]And of the people are some who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

A great punishment is awaiting ISIS.
[Quran 2:7]God has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

a reply to: danielsil18

If a book is Devine it would not contract itself.

There are several verses in the Quran that I have posted previously in the thread that say only to defend oneself. Therefore every aggressive verse can only be applied to self defense. Otherwise the text is not Devine. No one should follow a book that they believe contradicts itself and call it Devine.

If one is going to error, it seems likely that God would have us error for peace. Chery-picking to justify an offensive war is against the most just teaching in each text.

If you follow the true message of Jesus I wouldn't worry as much about being attacked by atheists. Atheists should be more focused on fundamentalist zealots.

originally posted by: Ozsheeple
a reply to: Isurrender73

there seems to be a lot of intolerance on both sides

I think the biggest problem is that people believe that there are only 2 sides.

There are infinite sides and when we realize that then we will cease to allow ourselves to be pitted against "the other side".

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
if you are being honest with yourself then you do not get to tell anyone what religion they are - and that included ISIS, Westborough and Zionists.

I don't need to be honest with myself. I have to search for the message of virtue and see if I find it. If it's there then it was put there intentionally, by someone.

Once you find the message of Virtue if anything appears to contradict Virtue then you have mistaken the prophets teaching.

The laws or metaphors must have been necessary. We have no idea what life was like back then, except through the texts. They are the best source of history we have.

Regardless of the dogma there is a message of Virtue embed in each text. And this can be accounted as a fact because there are many Spiritual Men and Women, both past and present, that claimed to find the same message of Virtue in the various texts.

Gandhi found Virtue in Hinduism. MLK found it in Christianity. Malcolm X found it in Islam.

Malcolm X version of the Black Panthers was reminding them of their heritage. But he also taught them to defend themselves, because very few were defending blacks, except blacks.

None of these men condoned the type of crime we see today. Malcolm X may have taught defense but he never taught black on black crime, or faith driven crime. He was close to MLK from what history records.

Each religion has produced good and bad crop.

Unfortunately the bad always seems to rise to the top.

# And then you go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like "God hates you"

Affectionate parody of Westboro Baptist Church's own witty parodies of popular songs.



Please visit, "like" and follow JohnAllman.UK.

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a reply to: Isurrender73

If a book is Devine it would not contract itself.

If you mean divine. How do you know? How can you be sure?

No one should follow a book that they believe contradicts itself and call it Devine.

Religious people do it all the time because they have cognitive biases.

If you are a Christian then explain why would you follow a book that contradicts itself with reality?

Christians follow a "divine" book that wrongly labels bats as birds. Not to mention a talking snake.

Give To Him A "Thank You!"

Then Give Yourself... A... "Better Understanding Of Your Part In His Tale!"

Then Give Him "The Grace Of Trust!"

And I Will Give Him A Lesser Work. Per Haps Even A Rebuke.

I love and hate God.
But I love more his comedies and ironies.
They make of me a wounded fool.

Only major religions count in this? How about the non religious atheists, to the religious such as Wiccans who are grouped in to being responsible because of a few?

a reply to: Isurrender73

I'm slow-clapping in my mind for the OP right now. Kudos, Bravo!, etc. I would only add that it seems joining in the hate of any of the full groups because of the few truly does play into the hands of the evil few who falsely claim any of those religions as their own. Essentially, you become one of the "anti" group through your hate of the other full group or groups.

It's a weak play, a useless life and a sellout way to be for those who do. Some do it because of fear, others anger, others probably simply a lack of intelligence making them easily led.

Yoda was right. Anger, fear, aggression... The dark side are they.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Only major religions count in this? How about the non religious atheists, to the religious such as Wiccans who are grouped in to being responsible because of a few?

As long as your Dogma doesn't infringe on the rights of others, or break any law, mankind should be free to practice as they want.

The only question I have is, does your belief or non belief lead to Virtue?

I don't personally believe in magic, witchcraft or anything like that. I think it's better for the good person to do good, then to expect magic to fix what's bad.

And I think it's better for a bad person to stay away from witchcraft.

Anyone who asks for help from a demon has asked to give up freewill to do something evil. Whether possession is real or not doesn't matter. The person who believes will likely act out the bad they were planning, without having any self control.

Anyone who claims to worship demons or performs black magic needs to be locked up in a mental hospital, because they are highly likely to do something harmful to themselves or someone else.

Outside of this extreme, I see nothing wrong with various rituals and dogma that remind a person to live a Virtuous life.

I disagree, would ISIS exist without Islam? Would Zionist exist without Judaism ? Would Wetsboro exist without Christianity?

When beliefs do not reflect reality, there are endless possibilities for interpretations. This in turn insures conflict even among the same religion.

It's time humanity grow up from it's binky, religion is an outdated, primitive superstition belief system that we see throughout the world it's ill effects on all cultures.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
Anyone who claims to worship demons or performs black magic needs to be locked up in a mental hospital, because they are highly likely to do something harmful to themselves or someone else.

Sounds like the perfect plan to clear out all the garbage in DC to me...

When can we start?

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Only major religions count in this? How about the non religious atheists, to the religious such as Wiccans who are grouped in to being responsible because of a few?

As long as your Dogma doesn't infringe on the rights of others, or break any law, mankind should be free to practice as they want.

The only question I have is, does your belief or non belief lead to Virtue?

I don't personally believe in magic, witchcraft or anything like that. I think it's better for the good person to do good, then to expect magic to fix what's bad.

And I think it's better for a bad person to stay away from witchcraft.

Anyone who asks for help from a demon has asked to give up freewill to do something evil. Whether possession is real or not doesn't matter. The person who believes will likely act out the bad they were planning, without having any self control.

Anyone who claims to worship demons or performs black magic needs to be locked up in a mental hospital, because they are highly likely to do something harmful to themselves or someone else.

Outside of this extreme, I see nothing wrong with various rituals and dogma that remind a person to live a Virtuous life.

Virtue depends on the doctrine. Non major religions have their own, morals and rules, many just as or better in virtue than the major religions themselves.

Anyone who asks for help from a demon has asked to give up freewill to do something evil. Whether possession is real or not doesn't matter. The person who believes will likely act out the bad they were planning, without having any self control.

Actually that is not true at all. Demon is a gentile name for Pagan Gods. Yes, Gods. All Gods are evil but your own or all Gods are evil but not God of the three major religions?

Anyone who claims to worship demons or performs black magic needs to be locked up in a mental hospital, because they are highly likely to do something harmful to themselves or someone else.

Magick: For one who says they don't believe it in they make huge claims against it.

Really, just as much as anyone who prays a God or Jesus(that is spiritual in nature and where most science would say does not exist)? And to answer, no they're not highly likely to hurt themselves or someone else. See below*

Again Wiccca, etc., responsible for the few who have acted out with ill intention in the name of to those who claim the religion but are not really part of? If so, that's the height of hypocrisy.

ps, Black Magick is neither good nor evil... *Nice to pick Black for a label as a preconceived notion about something one if unfamiliar with.

*sigh* not that anyone will take this into context here.

a reply to: danielsil18

You sir, are very wise.

To me being a christian I see Isis as being sent by God.
If you read the bible in revelations
God sent an angle with a trumpet down to the Euphrates (Iraq Syria )to release the four angles that are bound there(God punished them for helping man and bound them there till the time of judgement) and God has given them an order
Go forth and kill a third of man.
God hates man and has said he will start again like in the flood with Noah but this time he will use fire not water.
These angels felt pity for us when God kicked us out of the garden of eden so they came down and taught us how to make our lives easier.
They taught us how to make fire and metals and the wheel etc
And after 6 thousand years we have made weapons of mass distuction to kill each other.
I wonder if these angels now regret helping us.
And are keen to destroy us all.