Obama responds to Virginia shooting, reporter tweets about it, hilarity ensues

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: beezzer

Idk I think there is some ground between total ban and a reduction of the gun culture we have.

When we start down the road parsing the 2nd and denying rights, what makes you think the 2nd is going to be the only amendment chopped?

From July 26 2015,

When Obama spoke to BBC last week he stressed his frustration over not being able to secure more gun control and suggested that the guns outweigh terrorism as a threat to Americans’ safety.

Source

Obama said this before so it was no wishy washy deep thinking of the moment of his inner most personal thoughts on this specific incident. It was a canned just like spam answer that promotes his ongoing agenda.


Gun production has increased since Obama took office. It has doubled.

Gun production has doubled under Obama

Source


Obama says one thing, the effect is the opposite. Such is that of a failed leader.

a reply to: beezzer

I don't want the second chopped. I just think there is some middle ground.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: beezzer

I don't want the second chopped. I just think there is some middle ground.

Where would the middle ground be for the 1st Amendment?

a reply to: beezzer

So free for all on the second or bust right?

Since that is the topic.

My middle ground is not saying we need to take the rights away of those that want to use them.

Just not act like we can't do anything at all with out violating them.

a reply to: Sremmos80

My solution would be to punish anyone who violates anyone else's rights.

We have so much gun violence because we don't have punishments that scare people.

Make it a death penalty offense for any crime that involves a firearm.

We might see a drop in gun violence then.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: beezzer

So free for all on the second or bust right?

Since that is the topic.

My middle ground is not saying we need to take the rights away of those that want to use them.

Just not act like we can't do anything at all with out violating them.

There are already plenty of laws on the books controlling gun ownership.
Felony? no guns
Domestic conviction? no guns
Institutionalized? no guns
Wait periods, background checks in place.

Criminals get guns no matter what laws there are. The minute someone turns whacko and decides to go shoot someone, they become the criminal element and have access to all the illegal methods. Like stealing one, or buying one from the street corner if they don't have access to one of their own.

No law on earth will stop a criminal from getting a gun. They only prevent law abiding citizens from owning a gun.
Confiscation won't work there are too many guns, it is an unrealistic policy that disarms citizens while leaving criminals fully armed.

Instead of letting mentally unstable people walk around society with a prescription bottle as the only border between them turning psycho or staying sane for another day, lawmakers should concentrate on laws concerning their freedoms, leave gun owners alone. They should spend their time building Sanitariums and paying for education to staff them.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Sremmos80

My solution would be to punish anyone who violates anyone else's rights.

We have so much gun violence because we don't have punishments that scare people.

Make it a death penalty offense for any crime that involves a firearm.

We might see a drop in gun violence then.

How is any law going to scare deranged suicidal shooters? In this case the guy killed himself. In other cases they shoot it out and let the cops kill them. In still other cases they claim they were so out of it they didn't know what they were doing so how could a law scare them?

When these gun grabbers successfully disarm every street gang in America, come back to the law abiding people with this gun grabbing agenda with a proven track record that they have good intentions. Until then every time it is brought up, gun sales double.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You are right, but yet we as a nation produce the guns and flood the streets with them so there is ample amount for those that should not have to get.


All we are doing is going to extremes here, which is why I keep saying there is a step before that.

I some what agree with what you have to say, about taking care of our gangs with guns before we go after joe that likes to go to the range.
Think we would just disagree on the how.

I think Chris Rock has the right idea:

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Sremmos80

My solution would be to punish anyone who violates anyone else's rights.

We have so much gun violence because we don't have punishments that scare people.

Make it a death penalty offense for any crime that involves a firearm.

We might see a drop in gun violence then.

Studies show that harsher punishments like that don't actually do anything. About all it does is make sure that normal law abiding citizens don't dare get out of control. But it does nothing to keep criminals or unstable people from doing anything.

It also doesn't prevent "crimes of passion" type killings either.

Thanks for the replies folks.

I'm just looking for solutions that don't infringe on the rights of law-abiding people.

Harsh penalties might not deter a criminal, but if we jail/end them, then ultimately, there would be fewer criminals to contend with.

Freedom is a double-edged sword.

In order to maintain our freedoms, we (as a society) will have to accept that we ma encounter the occasional asshole.

Those stats are a bit misleading. Of those 270,000 or so, about 133,000 were suicides .... or nearly half. About 4700 were ruled justified or undetermined and 5300 accidental. This leaves about 127,000 ruled as homicide, about 14000 a year. Still a high number but less than half of the given stat.

Furthermore, if we look here ...

FBI stats 2007-2011

We see that between 2007 and 2011 TOTAL murders are around 12-15000, for ALL weapons, per year . Firearm murders are between 8500 and 10,000. If we take the high number of about 10,000, that equals 90,000 murders for the same time period as the previously given stat of 270,000 (2001-2011). The low number gives around 76,000. We'll average and say around 83,000.

So, do we have a "gun problem" or is it partially a stats problem? Let's look at some other things.......

According to the FBI ( Here ) ...

Gang-related crime and violence continues to rise. NGIC analysis indicates that gang members are responsible for an average of 48 percent of violent crime in most jurisdictions and much higher in others. Some jurisdictions in Arizona, California, Colorado, Illinois, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, and Texas report that gangs are responsible for at least 90 percent of crime.

Interesting. Does anyone here think that gangs obey gun restrictions? Will more words on paper deter their crimes?

If we look at this chart Here we see approximately 48% of gang activity have Mexican and Colombian ties.

Maybe if we SECURE OUR BORDER and fix our drug laws we can get a handle on things and begin to reduce this activity. As long as fresh blood keeps pouring into the US it will not change.

But no, lets blame law abiding gun owners and inanimate objects while ignoring the out of control gangs, ineffective drug laws, backwards mental health system, mind altering pharmaceuticals, failed education system, out of control political correctness where you can't even call a criminal a criminal, ineffective governance, and general moral decline. Nope, it's those damn hunks of metal.

a reply to: Primordial

Yea yea yea, details and all that. We can't let on that it includes suicides.

Besides, the real point here is that if all the guns magically disappeared one day, none of that would happen.

Duh.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Anyhow the politicians always find a way to dodge the bullet irrespective of their prior comments/agendas.

originally posted by: beezzer
Thanks for the replies folks.

I'm just looking for solutions that don't infringe on the rights of law-abiding people.

Harsh penalties might not deter a criminal, but if we jail/end them, then ultimately, there would be fewer criminals to contend with.

Freedom is a double-edged sword.

In order to maintain our freedoms, we (as a society) will have to accept that we ma encounter the occasional asshole.

Do you own a gun(s) ?

a reply to: Primordial
Do you own a gun(s) ?

I think I'm going to start a post a little later mentions everything I find suspicious about this shooting. Most noticeably the fact the her "boy friend" posted on Twitter about her death exactly 10 minutes before it happen.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Are gang members really not terrorist of their communities?