Along with the Creationist, Chimps have entered the Stone Age.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: chr0naut

Your suggestion that chimps reached "a level of technological competence formerly assigned only to the human lineage" is largely hyperbole.

Fricken lasers!? We are not talking about modern humans! The part that says "human lineage" must have gotten past you.

So, you are saying that chimps have now reached a sophistication that we had when we were just like chimps?

From what I have read it was noted over 100 years ago that chimps used rocks to crush things with. But they don't use a hammer to carve, make a wheel and drive a peg to fix anything. they use a rock to eat simple survival technique of adaptation not evolution.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Your right. I know nothing about the subject.

Though, I do wonder about the 'scientific objectivity' of the OP. How does evolution negate creationist views?

It doesn't look like an either/or proposition, at least in regards to evolution. Maybe more germane when big bang is compared to creationism, but evolution?

P.S. I actually saw that quote on a church bill-board in Tennessee about twenty years back....

Unfortunately, your reasonableness and rationality will be lost on some.

They will probably call you a Creationist, begin grunting, charge at you in a agitated manner, dragging their knuckles and throwing feces.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: chr0naut

Your suggestion that chimps reached "a level of technological competence formerly assigned only to the human lineage" is largely hyperbole.

Fricken lasers!? We are not talking about modern humans! The part that says "human lineage" must have gotten past you.

So, you are saying that chimps have now reached a sophistication that we had when we were just like chimps?

From what I have read it was noted over 100 years ago that chimps used rocks to crush things with. But they don't use a hammer to carve, make a wheel and drive a peg to fix anything. they use a rock to eat simple survival technique of adaptation not evolution.

[sarcasm] That would mean that you couldn't use this little factoid as some sort of justification of evolutionary process!

Shock, horror, unpossible. [/sarcasm]

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry
Neither for nor against - but if evolution works, where are the talking primates? I don't mean sign language, I mean speech, words. Not grunts and tones.

Sure things evolve over time....

Nope. Nothing is guaranteed in evolution. There is no predetermined goal to improve all organisms. It is dependent on the environment. They may one day evolve speech, but thinking it's guaranteed only shows a common misunderstanding with evolution.

Anybody remember Koko the gorilla? Koko is one of the smartest gorillas around. She tells jokes, and knows over 1000 signs, in sign language. She also understands over 2000 words in English. Great apes aren't as far off as folks like to believe. Give them vocal cords and they are having conversations with each other and expressing their emotions.



Somebody mentioned compassion before so I had to post this video of her crying over the death of Robin Williams. And that's not the only one.



Here's a video from 99 that goes in depth about her.

Koko has also kept pets. She asked for a pet kitten and picked the cat out of litter. Tragedy happened and the kitten was hit by a car, and Koko mourned her.

articles.latimes.com...

This shows that they can indeed be compassionate. The story of Koko is a great one. I highly recommend watching the conversations video if you have not.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry
Neither for nor against - but if evolution works, where are the talking primates? I don't mean sign language, I mean speech, words. Not grunts and tones.

Sure things evolve over time....

Nope. Nothing is guaranteed in evolution. There is no predetermined goal to improve all organisms. It is dependent on the environment. They may one day evolve speech, but thinking it's guaranteed only shows a common misunderstanding with evolution.

a reply to: Barcs

Koko is awesome. And yes, she certainly exhibits many "human" (read: primate) emotions and cognition.
The one with Robin Williams left me crying!!
And the kitteh? POOR KOKO!!! I feel her pain.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Koko is awesome. And yes, she certainly exhibits many "human" (read: primate) emotions and cognition.
The one with Robin Williams left me crying!!
And the kitteh? POOR KOKO!!! I feel her pain.

Yeah, the kitten story made me feel so bad for her. I know that feeling all too well. Some folks say they are just animals. I say we are all animals and most are capable of emotion. If animals had vocal cords most humans would be singing a different tune about their intelligence. It's funny how big a role vocal cords played in human development of civilization. Give many of these great apes a few million years and all bets are off.

a reply to: flyingfish

Have humans left the "stone age"?

We just have fancier tools. It's not like we've evolved.

a reply to: flyingfish

I guess a monkey using a rock is evidence of evolution huh? Pfft. Crocodiles cammoflaging themselves with grass and leaves falls under the same I suppose. Watch out fellas! We are a couple steps closer to having armor clad monkey knights with swords and Special Ops Crocodiles!

I'm amazed at how stubborn evolutionists are, and how they try so desperately to disprove and discredit God. Keep the ideas coming, boys! You almost got it!

a reply to: kef33890

I guess a monkey using a rock is evidence of evolution huh? Pfft. Crocodiles cammoflaging themselves with grass and leaves falls under the same I suppose. Watch out fellas! We are a couple steps closer to having armor clad monkey knights with swords and Special Ops Crocodiles!

Uhm, No! Keep guessing, out of the mountains of evidence supporting evolution, monkeys using a rock is not much for evidence. But.. it does prove monkeys (like creationist) have entered the stone age.

I'm amazed at how stubborn evolutionists are, and how they try so desperately to disprove and discredit God. Keep the ideas coming, boys! You almost got it!

I don't know were your getting evolutionists trying to disprove and discredit God? If anything it's the creationist disproving God by asserting evolution disproves God. And by discrediting God by denying natural processes and trying to turn God into a magician!

a reply to: chr0naut

So, you are saying that chimps have now reached a sophistication that we had when we were just like chimps?

And your one of the smart ones?

a reply to: flyingfish

I watched the show "the Nature of Things" (David Suzuki) and there was a species of hominid which took 1000,000 years for them to figure out how to put on a handle. A million years.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

ALL BALL!!!

NOOOOOO!!!

Koko is my Hero.
Ever watched Project Nim Buzz?.



We are so much alike.

a reply to: FlySolo

Love David Suzuki!

look how long it took anatomically correct humans to invent the wheel.
Heck, it wasn't till 1857 toilet paper was invented, and there are people who still use their left hand!

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: kef33890Uhm, No! Keep guessing, out of the mountains of evidence supporting evolution, monkeys using a rock is not much for evidence. But.. it does prove monkeys (like creationist) have entered the stone age.

Like I said scientist noted they used rocks to crush things over 100 years ago so they have been in the stone age for over 100 years already no new news.

But it is hardly evolution as much as it is adaptation.

When they start to redesign their hammers and carry them about I would give an evolution stamp.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: kef33890Uhm, No! Keep guessing, out of the mountains of evidence supporting evolution, monkeys using a rock is not much for evidence. But.. it does prove monkeys (like creationist) have entered the stone age.

Like I said scientist noted they used rocks to crush things over 100 years ago so they have been in the stone age for over 100 years already no new news.

But it is hardly evolution as much as it is adaptation.

When they start to redesign their hammers and carry them about I would give an evolution stamp.

Evolution does not need your stamp of approval, in mainstream science there is zero controversy.
Controversy is created in the brainwashed heads of creationist.

Evolution by natural selection is one of the best substantiated theories in the entire history of science!
It's supported by evidence from a wide variety of scientific disciplines that include paleontology, geology, genetics, developmental biology and medicine.
Evolution is not something you believe in, it's our description of an observed natural phenomenon! It's like saying "I approve of rain or gravity" it just doesn't make any sense.

a reply to: flyingfish

Really interesting, S&F'd.

originally posted by: flyingfish

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Given enough time you never know, but yeah they won't be conquering any nations tomorrow or writing some world changing thesis, true.

It doesn't change though that they are scarey smart and deserving of more intellectual recognition than they are often given in our desire to pretend we're intellectual cheetahs and everyone else is a common garden snail.

The intelligence gap is no where near as big as we like to pretend it is for our own egos.

You are correct, we share many things with animals, there is an explosion going right now in the scientific study of animal intelligence. Studies suggest that animals may share many, if not all, traits considered to be unique only to us. Traits like consciousness, empathy, fear and thinking of ones self. Very exciting research and lots of answers yet to be discovered.

Reading statements like this makes me wonder if you are actually serious, but I know you are.

It has been known for thousands of years at minimum that those traits are common amongst animals.

Anyone free from brainwashing can see this, science is big waste of time in far too many areas.

WOW JUST WOW, what am I doing here amongst these damaged individuals.

originally posted by: Barcs
Anybody remember Koko the gorilla? Koko is one of the smartest gorillas around. She tells jokes, and knows over 1000 signs, in sign language. She also understands over 2000 words in English. Great apes aren't as far off as folks like to believe. Give them vocal cords and they are having conversations with each other and expressing their emotions.

Somebody mentioned compassion before so I had to post this video of her crying over the death of Robin Williams. And that's not the only one.

Here's a video from 99 that goes in depth about her.

Koko has also kept pets. She asked for a pet kitten and picked the cat out of litter. Tragedy happened and the kitten was hit by a car, and Koko mourned her.

articles.latimes.com...

This shows that they can indeed be compassionate. The story of Koko is a great one. I highly recommend watching the conversations video if you have not.

Who gave us vocal cords ??

Did we manifest them suddenly because we telepathy was a more useless form of communication ?