The Battle of Los Angeles 1942 : New Light on the Original Picture?

At 0144 an SCR-268 (3-T-4) picked up an unidentifiable aerial target
(confirmed by two 270s); at 0200 there appeared on the Information Center's
Operation Board an unidentified "target 120 miles west of Los Angeles...
well tracked by radar, by 1st Lt Kenneth R. Martin."

History of the 4th AA Command, Western Defense Command,
January 9 1942 -July 1, 1945, Chapter V Defense Operations on the West Coast.
(3)Par 5, App B, Doc 29 (Conference Report, 25 Feb 42)

a reply to: Wolfenz

West of Los Angles is the Pacific Ocean

As I stated the large Japanese I Class submarines carried small floatplanes (Yokosuka E14Y - Allied name "GLEN")

Japanese frequently launched them to scout ahead of their submarines

Possibility it was one of these floatplanes - notice how it turned back once hit the coast. Consistent with a n
aircraft launched from the sea to reconnoiter the coast

originally posted by: firerescue

At 0144 an SCR-268 (3-T-4) picked up an unidentifiable aerial target
(confirmed by two 270s); at 0200 there appeared on the Information Center's
Operation Board an unidentified "target 120 miles west of Los Angeles...
well tracked by radar, by 1st Lt Kenneth R. Martin."

History of the 4th AA Command, Western Defense Command,
January 9 1942 -July 1, 1945, Chapter V Defense Operations on the West Coast.
(3)Par 5, App B, Doc 29 (Conference Report, 25 Feb 42)

a reply to: Wolfenz

West of Los Angles is the Pacific Ocean

As I stated the large Japanese I Class submarines carried small floatplanes (Yokosuka E14Y - Allied name "GLEN")

Japanese frequently launched them to scout ahead of their submarines

Possibility it was one of these floatplanes - notice how it turned back once hit the coast. Consistent with a n
aircraft launched from the sea to reconnoiter the coast

True and either I-17 I -23 or I-26 could of been one of them
The Japanese records claimed they were never there , on that night .

as some of the witnesses said it didn't look like a plane at all
a more oblong shape .

Sure it could of been, a Jap Plane .
A captain of a Japanese Sub could of sent one out and not report it.

and it wouldn't be the first time that happened I would Assume

just like the Allies side. not reporting or had it written down.
especially if they were not suppose to be there in the first place

but tracking the object for 25 miles in a half in hour as some claim
or an hour for the other claim..

how fast would been going , ?

faster then a blimp slower then a plane. also claims
of the objects speed speeding up and slowing down
more like randomly. more likely dodging artillery fire

also i would like to point out as in common knowledge
That during a Bombing run a Bomber or Fighter escort that gets
attacked with Flack aka AA Artillery Rounds

A Plane Fighter or Bomber would go in a Random in a
Zig Zag motion if they were trained right ,
The Germans knew this and i would assume
the Japanese would of too.

but this object practically didn't flinch
just the speeding up and slowing down .

along the coast line. as witnesses seen this happening


I only wished that these talks were like 25 years ago
when these whiteness we're more likely still alive
as in the actual Searchlight crew of L.A. and its surroundings
speaking of witch is another Fail...
It wasnt only The crew from L.A.
there where other coastal Searchlight crews around L.A.
hence the multiple Searchlights on the Object
were from other near by Towns.. at least 4 or 5 were claimed
to be from different towns .

In my personal Opinion

The Military / Government kept this hush hush from either

The War Jitters as it was Claimed.
Something they could not explain and was totally unknown to them
and could not confirm of what the object was.
The object was unearthly as that was claimed..

dont forget this , the day before you would aspect war jitters in this even

Bombardment of Ellwood
en.wikipedia.org...


as on the Night of FEB 23

the Japanese Sub I-19 had its Floatplane was surveying Pearl Harbor

so there must of been a lot of surveying going on that night..
from Japans Subs ,

On February 23, 1942, I-19‍ '​s floatplane made a night reconnaissance over Pearl Harbor, Hawaii in support of Operation K-1, a second attack on Pearl Harbor by the Imperial Japanese Navy. On March 4, she arrived at the French Frigate Shoals to serve as a radio beacon for the "Emily" floatplanes that were to attack Pearl Harbor. The "Emily" attack was canceled.

en.wikipedia.org...


So a order could of been out ..



Here another Air raid that a Float Plane actually did attack with bombs

Lookout Air Raids
en.wikipedia.org...

On September 9, 1942, a Japanese Yokosuka E14Y floatplane, launched from a Japanese submarine, dropped two incendiary bombs with the intention of starting a forest fire. Thanks to a patrol of fire lookouts[2] and weather conditions not amenable to a fire, the damage done by the attack was minor.[3] The attack was the first time the continental United States was bombed by an enemy aircraft and the second time that the mainland US was bombed by someone working for a foreign power, the first being the bombing of Naco, Arizona by Patrick Murphy, although the Murphy bombing inside the U.S. was an accident.

to Note on i-25

On Wednesday morning, September 9, 1942, the I-25, under the command of Lieutenant Commander Meiji Tagami, surfaced west of Cape Blanco. The submarine launched a "Glen" Yokosuka E14Y floatplane, flown by Warrant Officer Nobuo Fujita[4] and Petty Officer Okuda Shoji, with a load of two incendiary bombs of 76 kilograms (168 lb) each.[5]

a reply to: Wolfenz

One good source of information on Japanese ships and their movements is this site

www.combinedfleet.com

Checking site did not find any record of Japanese submarines launching their floatplane

Then of course many of the records were destroyed at the end of WWII by the Japanese prior to
the surrender.

a reply to: Wolfenz

... tracking the object for 25 miles in a half in hour as some claim or an hour for the other claim..

That CBS radio report definitely said that. So what was it that influenced Byron Palmer to report that?

I only wished that these talks were like 25 years ago when these witnesses we're more likely still alive ...

Yes there are still a few witnesses who have come forward but they were civilians (and children in 1941 ) so their perspective was totally different from the servicemen manning the air defences.

You know I only really wanted to highlight the discrepancies in the original negative (even that is inconclusive) when I started the thread. So I have to commend you for digging and continuing looking into this. I think you could class it as either a terrible and inept mistake that the military wanted to hush up or the object was real and we have a genuine UFO to investigate (not saying it was alien just unidentified and flying).

This is when ATS is at its best, people aren't jumping to conclusions and are actually trying to find another little clue or piece of the story to solve it.

Thanks for adding some interesting bits of information and finding that video as well.

a reply to: mirageman

I wish to add that not only has the United States fired on UFOs, the former Soviet Union has fired on the objects as well. The Soviet firing incident was brought up at the U.S. Air Force Academy.

INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE - VOLUME II
CHAPTER XXXIII
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS - USAF
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY

...on 24 July 1957 Russian anti-aircraft batteries on the Kouril Islands opened fire on UFO's. Although all Soviet anti-aircraft batteries on the Islands were in action, no hits were made.

What the U.S. Air Force Academy was Telling Its Cadets

This is the description of the UFO over Los Angeles.

"It was a lovely pale orange and about the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. I could see it perfectly because it was very close. It was big!"

www.rense.com...

The UFO was definitely was not an airplane because an airplane could not have survived such a barrage of that magnitude nor would any pilot is their right mind have flown so leisurely over an area while receiving such a massive barrage of anti-aircraft fire.

The only thing clear about the incident is that the truth will never be known for certain. Once the air was full of smoke from airbursts, no one could say what they were shooting at.
a reply to: mirageman

a reply to: Parthin96

What was the object that was tracked from over the ocean before the firing began? In the CBS video, the reporter mentioned that the object reversed its course.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Parthin96

What was the object that was tracked from over the ocean before the firing began? In the CBS video, the reporter mentioned that the object reversed its course.

That was the only UFO I know of and nobody knows what it was and nobody fired a shot at it. The Japanese admit their other plane a few days earlier, but they still deny knowledge of that one, if it was a Japanese plane.

originally posted by: Parthin96
The only thing clear about the incident is that the truth will never be known for certain. Once the air was full of smoke from airbursts, no one could say what they were shooting at.

There's a lot of variance in the accounts of what was seen but the only accounts I trust is the folks tracking the weather balloons. Why should I believe theose stories over the other stories? Because of all the accounts, the only people who knew what they were looking at were those people because they launched the balloons they were tracking, and they also reported that their balloons were being shot at, and the shooting started soon after the balloons were released.

But yeah, once the shooting started, there didn't need to be any balloons to shoot at anymore. Any puff of smoke would do for the next target.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Here's a newspaper article with pictures.

Battle of Los Angeles Newspaper Article

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Wolfenz

One good source of information on Japanese ships and their movements is this site

www.combinedfleet.com

Checking site did not find any record of Japanese submarines launching their floatplane

Then of course many of the records were destroyed at the end of WWII by the Japanese prior to
the surrender.

Right , as i said there was no claims that the Japanese were
in the area on that particular night.

as maybe The captain of the Sub took the risk and chance,
Ignoring all orders , or was tired of waiting for orders
as the Germans did in their U boats during the war.
a #it we are going we doing it live! LOL

Im not sure about the records, or the Logs went down with the SUB
and were never transferred as there is so many possibility.

in all still ,

I never heard of a prop plane going less then 50 miles an hour for 25 miles
and still keep itself up and not be shot down in the Processes
with using remote controlled searchlights using a Binocular Headgear to target it
and was detected on a 268 and a 270 portable radar . as that was claimed ..

and if it was a Jap SUB float plane , there is something wrong with that picture.
with all the multiple rounds. having all searchlight directly on the object
from different location of Towns .

as some claimed it was a weather balloon, yet The Army knew where those Balloon were.
and no way near the coast line , as there were near the mountain ranges as one witness claimed.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Wolfenz

... tracking the object for 25 miles in a half in hour as some claim or an hour for the other claim..

That CBS radio report definitely said that. So what was it that influenced Byron Palmer to report that?

I only wished that these talks were like 25 years ago when these witnesses we're more likely still alive ...

Yes there are still a few witnesses who have come forward but they were civilians (and children in 1941 ) so their perspective was totally different from the servicemen manning the air defences.

You know I only really wanted to highlight the discrepancies in the original negative (even that is inconclusive) when I started the thread. So I have to commend you for digging and continuing looking into this. I think you could class it as either a terrible and inept mistake that the military wanted to hush up or the object was real and we have a genuine UFO to investigate (not saying it was alien just unidentified and flying).

This is when ATS is at its best, people aren't jumping to conclusions and are actually trying to find another little clue or piece of the story to solve it.

Thanks for adding some interesting bits of information and finding that video as well.

Exactly Why would Bryon Palmer report that !

Simple Answer is :

Guessing:: Some CBS Reporter at the Scene must of talked to One of the Officials there
or the local Headquarters on the Base for the report..

The next question would be:
what did other news reporters and News Papers and
News Radio from other News Company, through out the nation have said
in the 'EARLY' reports ( the Non Claimed War Jitters Report )


that's what I meant by it, a better chance of those
Searchlight Crew , Radar Crew, Flack Crew. etc. that were at scene still being alive..
of what actually happened. and we now can only go by the children of L.A.
that can remember. and the Stories they were told of their elders .


right jumping to conclusions of aliens or something unearthly.

Its either one of the Two an Embarrassing Mistake or a
Unidentified Flying Object they the Army couldn't Explain to the Public.
and there is no need to place a E.T. Craft in the Category.

Thanks !

Also I read somewhere that the Coastal Defense Crew in L.A.
did a lot of rehearsal runs way before Battle of L.A.
and Bombardment of Ellwood.

There is Photos of the Crew to doing Search Light Display Runs
weeks before

here a site showing that but IDK the Date the Photos were taken
more likely after the Battle of L.A. event

A Pictorial History of the Fourth Antiaircraft Command
in World War II — Part I: Searchlights
www.skylighters.org...

a reply to: Wolfenz

You know I am not convinced that there was anything from another world up there that night. But the fog of war and the passage of time have probably prevented this one from being solved for definite.

......A Pictorial History of the Fourth Antiaircraft Command in World War II — Part I: Searchlightswww.skylighters.org....

Good find they even say of this pic:

Searchlight beams strike the base of the cloud ceiling, creating an effect resembling a flying disc.

a reply to: RossWellOldMexico

I believe the "Battle of Los Angeles" was a legit UFO encounter.

I agree. Check it out.

What was that thing?

The panic in Los Angeles was caused when a number of witnesses reportedly sighted a large, round object in the skies over Culver City and Santa Monica, both neighborhoods on the west side of town and closer to the Pacific Ocean.

The object was barraged with more than 1,400 shells from anti-aircraft guns, with no visible effect, until it eventually drifted leisurely south toward Long Beach and vanished from view. Most reports described it as pale orange in color and glowing.

www.blastr.com...

The UFO that passed over my base in Vietnam in 1968 from over the sea was also orange.

a reply to: skyeagle409

See, the problem is, there were other witnesses who reported no object.

But can you provide just one witness report of a "round object", much less a number of reports?

a reply to: Phage

Here are some descriptions

* "The object...caught in the center of the lights like the hub of a bicycle wheel surrounded by gleaming spokes. The fire seemed to burst in rings all around the object."

* Eyewitness accounts described the object as a "surreal, hanging, magic lantern." The object was especially visible as it hovered over the MGM studios in Culver City.

* "It was huge! It was just enormous! And it was practically right over my house. I had never seen anything like it in my life!" she said.

* I don't recall seeing any truly discernable configuration, just a small, glowing, slight lozenge-shaped blob light ---a single blob.

a reply to: skyeagle409

You provide no source, but all different and only one could be described as "round."

I like the giant butterfly one best. Though I've never seen a giant butterfly that was round.
www.bookmice.net...

A balloon, according to some. A UFO according to to others. Some thought they were firing at enemy planes.
a reply to: skyeagle409

a reply to: Phage

The descriptions show that there was an object embedded within the lights.

a reply to: skyeagle409

So, no numerous reports of a round object then?

The descriptions show that some people thought they saw something within the lights. Do you disregard those who say they saw planes? Do you disregard those who say they saw nothing? Why?

Do you disregard this?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The eyewitness reports vary so widely that it not possible, without cherry picking, to use them to demonstrate much of anything.

just Posting the wording of CBS Radio Broadcast of Bryon Palmer

saving time searching back.

(National WWII War Museum )
Battle of Los Angeles
www.nww2m.com...

A transcript of a radio report made that morning by then-CBS
reporter Byron Palmer, who would later become a Broadway and
television actor. His report includes inaccuracies—planes were
never sent into the air, for example—again representative of the
mass confusion and varying reports being made about the events
that morning:


Anti-aircraft guns went into action against unidentified aircraft in
the Los Angeles area shortly after 3:00 a.m. Pacific War Time this
morning. The antiaircraft guns began barking during a blackout
ordered by the 4th Interceptor Command at 2:25 a.m.

The unidentified object which some sources thought might be
a blimp, moved slowly down the coast toward Santa Monica and
disappeared south of Long Beach. Army officials declined to
comment on the possibility that the object might have been
a blimp.

However, it required nearly 30 minutes to travel some 25 miles,
far slower than an airplane.

Watchers on a rooftop of the Columbia Broadcasting
building in the heart of Hollywood could plainly see the flashes of
guns and searchlights sweeping the skies in a wide arc along the
coastal area. Concussion of the shells could be felt in downtown
Los Angeles 15 miles away. US Army planes quickly took to the
dark skies but whether they contacted the object has not been
announced. Army officials say they will not comment until they
receive a full report on the action. Although some watchers say
they saw airplanes in the air, semi-official sources say they
probably were the US Army’s pursuit. Several observers say they
saw one or more planes spotlighted by 20 or 30 searchlights.

The object moved southward, presumably over Huntington Park at
the western edge of Los Angeles, and on southward to
about Long Beach on the coast. By 3:30 a.m. observers said the
object appeared to be over the south of Long Beach. Searchlights
closely followed the object down the coast and kept it centered in
their glare.

Shells frequently can be seen bursting near the object, but none
appeared to hit it. The shooting stopped about 3:30 am.
The shooting brought warfare to the front door of this city of a
million and a quarter population for the first time since
December 7th. Already it was alert to the presence off the southern
California coast of a Japanese submarine which had pumped 25 shells
into an oilfield north of Santa Barbara Monday evening.

Because of the presence of the submarine, a 3-hour alert was ordered
at dusk last night and civilian authorities stood at their posts while
the Army and Navy continued their search for the submersible.
The evening alert ended at 10:23 p.m., but another was sounded
at 2:22 a.m. and the blackout followed within 3 minutes.

It covered Los Angeles County from to Santa Monica to Pomona.
At 2:27 all southern California radio stations were ordered off the air
except those in San Diego. Approximately 20 minutes after the firing
died down, the ship returned and headed westward from Long Beach
towards Santa Monica. The guns went into action again hurling round
after round of shells at the object. The second barrage appeared to be
closer to downtown Los Angeles, since watchers could hear the
concussion of the guns more clearly and the flash of bursting shells
was brighter.

Then the ship disappeared for the second time over the ocean.
We return you now to CBS in New York.