The "TPP" - Is Officially *Activated*

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: quercusrex

Seriously man??? I think you're missing the bigger picture here. That one statement has virtually nothing to do with the topic. How many people are getting benefits or wanting to remove Gov. programs was just one example I was making to illustrate how divided the country is and how we are constantly battling back and forth with each other. You know, how we argue over the insignificant things and are distracted from the bigger more important issues at work. Rather than take issue about it, if you don't agree, just ignore it then and pay attention to the point behind the OP.

Did you retain anything else from the video's or anything anyone else has said??? If so, maybe the next time you're getting that morning coffee at Starbucks with the other Average Joe's you may want to bring it up for discussion and see if anyone else has heard about it. But that's up to you. You can also just go about your day like none of it is happening if you'd like. It's your choice.

Just because you post a video of some group spouting nonsense doesnt peove anything and only makes you a peddler of said nonsense. You have chosen to believe the hand picked story. The TPP is needed just for standardized labor laws alone in an area of the world that sees so much inhumanity across multiple industries. I suppose you would rather keep.seeing slave labor. Stop fear mongering and do some reading. The Pacific rim needs standardized trade laws and agreements if only to improve the lives of the workers.

The TPP has been around for a decade. The new agreement would allow for standardized labor, environmental,dispute laws to be enacted and also lower all the restrictive tarriffs that exist while also allowing better conditions for workers. The only reason there has been secrecy around it is to make sure big corporations that have enjoyed the lopsided disparity and profits on the backs of these countries can't Lobby their way out of it. But leave it to some dude in a mask to flip the whole thing 360 and spin a BS tale and people like you to regurgitate it for stars.

originally posted by: In4ormant

It's funny to me that you live with the benefits of a democratic capitalist society and whine and complain about it when those benefits are proposed for others. Why don't YOU read about how this will help countries that have historically been raped over trade disparity. I think you would rather spew fear from a position of ignorance instead. Why shouldnt other countries be allowed to prosper in areas of commerce they have long held zero leverage and been exploited?

Decide not to answer any questions from earlier huh. Nice Name. It suits you.

Yeah, I've read it and the countries you think are going to profit I'm sure will make some profit if they acquiesce to the demands of the Corps. Which I'm sure they will, as they always do because they're promised everything. If you really think any giant American Corp. or Multinational is going to sweep in with happy days and big paychecks you're dreaming. Especially now that the Corps. can literally sue these other small Nations Gov. for lost profits. In their own special courts even.

Name one of these places that isn't going to give in when faced against a Giant Corp. possessing a larger wealth than the whole country in some cases. You think by the end of it they'll have any land, resources, money, or dignity??? Because they won't and you know it as much as I do.

That's what they do. That's what they already do, they exploit the hell of everything they can. Cheapest Labor, Minimal Conditions Met, Worker Rights Unknown, etc. But Maximizing those profits at all times. Sure, a little toxic dumping here and there, no more regulations for workers and when they are dry or resources or get too expensive there is always some other desperate struggling nation down the road who's next.

You actually think I'm against it because the Corps. are such sweethearts I'm greedy to keep them??? Man, you're so far off in your assessment it's comical.

originally posted by: In4ormant
Just because you post a video of some group spouting nonsense doesnt peove anything and only makes you a peddler of said nonsense. You have chosen to believe the hand picked story. The TPP is needed just for standardized labor laws alone in an area of the world that sees so much inhumanity across multiple industries. I suppose you would rather keep.seeing slave labor. Stop fear mongering and do some reading. The Pacific rim needs standardized trade laws and agreements if only to improve the lives of the workers.

Well, if you knew as much as you think, you'd know that nothing I'm bringing up in this is new and has already been proven as far as what some of the new rules are. The video may shine it up a bit, but that's what ya gotta do to bring the crowds in after all. It takes work to get people to turn their head or take the iphone off their face for a second or two. One reason is because other people keep saying, "Hey, nothings happening guys, it's all good. Just an energy company raping the natural resources and putting everyone in debt by the end of it. No big thing. We love everyone, now have a Coke and shut up."

You know what Standardized Trade Laws means in reality. It means a race to the bottom with cheap labor and sucking up to Corp. favor so they'll come to that county with some jobs because they're desperate. By the end of it years down the road everyone will be broke, in debt, exactly as we are now, but everywhere. If we make it that far. Taking the breaks off the Juggernaut of Corps. hasn't done any good, it's been a disaster. They're destructive and exploitative and need more restrictions not less!!

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: In4ormant
Just because you post a video of some group spouting nonsense doesnt peove anything and only makes you a peddler of said nonsense. You have chosen to believe the hand picked story. The TPP is needed just for standardized labor laws alone in an area of the world that sees so much inhumanity across multiple industries. I suppose you would rather keep.seeing slave labor. Stop fear mongering and do some reading. The Pacific rim needs standardized trade laws and agreements if only to improve the lives of the workers.

Well, if you knew as much as you think, you'd know that nothing I'm bringing up in this is new and has already been proven as far as what some of the new rules are. The video may shine it up a bit, but that's what ya gotta do to bring the crowds in after all. It takes work to get people to turn their head or take the iphone off their face for a second or two. One reason is because other people keep saying, "Hey, nothings happening guys, it's all good. Just an energy company raping the natural resources and putting everyone in debt by the end of it. No big thing. We love everyone, now have a Coke and shut up."

You know what Standardized Trade Laws means in reality. It means a race to the bottom with cheap labor and sucking up to Corp. favor so they'll come to that county with some jobs because they're desperate. By the end of it years down the road everyone will be broke, in debt, exactly as we are now, but everywhere. If we make it that far. Taking the breaks off the Juggernaut of Corps. hasn't done any good, it's been a disaster. They're destructive and exploitative and need more restrictions not less!!

I can't debate someone so uninformed on this issue. There is a ton of information out there in the current and proposed TPP. You may resume your doom porn circle jerk. I understand know why they guy wears the mask.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
...and on the day the TPP went live, the PPT (Plunge Protection Team) had to be activated for the first time in some years to prevent the US Stock Market from crashing through multiple technical support levels. Coincidence?

I think passing the TPP was their method of propping up the markets with a hail Mary pass.

a reply to: In4ormant

Were just not too thrilled about the idea of Chinese law being valid on US soil.
Nor their health and environmental "regulations" if you can even call them that.
Our water and air quality will suffer, wages will drop like rocks, criticism will be silenced.
Frankly, for Americans on the edge just surviving we can't afford to worry about what it's like in Indonesia.

BTW - TPP was passed despite the fact one of the signatory countries still practices slavery.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: In4ormant

Were just not too thrilled about the idea of Chinese law being valid on US soil.
Nor their health and environmental "regulations" if you can even call them that.
Our water and air quality will suffer, wages will drop like rocks, criticism will be silenced.
Frankly, for Americans on the edge just surviving we can't afford to worry about what it's like in Indonesia.

BTW - TPP was passed despite the fact one of the signatory countries still practices slavery.

This thing is designed to bring other partner countries to a higher standardized level, not lower ours. No Chinese laws will be in effect. Your being fed BS. Better labor laws so slave labor can go away. Stronger copyright and ip laws so china can stop flooding markets with knockoffs and no consequences. Better environmental standard on goods produced. There are so many positives to this thing it amazes me how easily people are duped. There have always been trade laws, the problem has been no broad sweeping set of rules that everyone needed to follow in order to make it fair.

Ahhhh yes... the TPP.


Sovereign countries being forced into globally-united corporatization, with the Fortune 500 at the helm.

Weeeeeee !

For those of you interested in actual data and not some Halloween clown.
businessroundtable.org...

ustr.gov...
The above will actually let you look at benefits for your state. There is tons more out there if people will take time to look.
tradebenefitsamerica.org...

The PDF shows how's important this thing is. Billions in economic growth for America. Standardized, enforceable laws, Millions of U.S. jobs supported. The elimination of trade deficits. New countries not currently part of our trade agreements, etc.

Go ahead and tell 15million Americans its not important because some hack convinced you with his weak British accent and his dinner party get up.

a reply to: tadaman

Wow, I don't like the heavy focus on intellectual property, it looks like they are getting serious about targeting people who use file-sharing for non-commercial gain even if there is no complaint from the corporation... the intellectual property rights really get in the way of progress. Think of buying a cd and not being able to rip tracks off of it to make mix cds. I guess that idea could be a bit outdated. That could be a criminal charge now, for starters, and also it might be harder to do if there is more DRM stuffed into our products.

Fair use is what allows people on YouTube to make parodies and use music in their YouTube videos. Hopefully, it doesn't start to be a more of a crime than it already is.

Enact a "Three-Step Test" Language That Puts Restrictions on Fair Use: The U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) is putting fair use at risk with restrictive language in the TPP's IP chapter. US and Australia have proposed very restrictive text, while other countries such as Chile, New Zealand, and Malaysia, have proposed more flexible, user-friendly terms.

Adopt Criminal Sanctions: Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation. Users could be jailed or hit with debilitating fines over file sharing, and may have their property or domains seized even without a formal complaint from the copyright holder.

eff.org

a reply to: darkbake

In Japan, people are worried that the IP provisions will affect artists that self-publish, including manga.

Ken Akamatsu, creator of Japanese manga series Love Hina and Mahou Sensei Negima!, expressed concern the agreement could decimate the derivative dōjinshi (self-published) works prevalent in Japan. Akamatsu argues that the TPP "would destroy derivative dōjinshi. And as a result, the power of the entire manga industry would also diminish."[143]

]

Once again, making file-sharing a criminal act and threats for journalists and whistleblowers.

These, according to EFF, include obligations for countries to expand copyright terms, restrict fair use, adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation (ex. file sharing of copyrighted digital media)... and create new threats for journalists and whistleblowers (due to vague text on the misuse of trade secrets),[104]

I am not sure how, but it also apparently really ticks the technology sector off. Maybe they are heavily dependent on copying each other's work to move forward, as it should be. Imagine if Windows was not able to copy the user interface of the Macintosh, or if smartphones were not able to be so close in design between companies.

and restrict the ability of Congress to engage in domestic law reform to meet the evolving IP needs of American citizens and the innovative technology sector

Wikipedia: Trans-Pacific Partnership

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: tadaman

Wow, I don't like the heavy focus on intellectual property, it looks like they are getting serious about targeting people who use file-sharing for non-commercial gain even if there is no complaint from the corporation... the intellectual property rights really get in the way of progress. Think of buying a cd and not being able to rip tracks off of it to make mix cds. I guess that idea could be a bit outdated. That could be a criminal charge now, for starters, and also it might be harder to do if there is more DRM stuffed into our products.

Fair use is what allows people on YouTube to make parodies and use music in their YouTube videos. Hopefully, it doesn't start to be a more of a crime than it already is.

Enact a "Three-Step Test" Language That Puts Restrictions on Fair Use: The U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) is putting fair use at risk with restrictive language in the TPP's IP chapter. US and Australia have proposed very restrictive text, while other countries such as Chile, New Zealand, and Malaysia, have proposed more flexible, user-friendly terms.

Adopt Criminal Sanctions: Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation. Users could be jailed or hit with debilitating fines over file sharing, and may have their property or domains seized even without a formal complaint from the copyright holder.

eff.org

File sharing should have stiffer penalties. If its not shareware well....its not free. People should have protections against pirating. Software designers don't work for free, they have families. Why shouldn't chumps stealing their stuff pay a price. If someone stole from your family you would want blood.

a reply to: darkbake

It would have the exact opposite effect for American ip protection. None exists now with these countries. This would offer protection where currently there is none. They have twisted this fact.

"These, according to EFF, include obligations for countries to expand copyright terms, restrict fair use, adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation (ex. file sharing of copyrighted digital media)... and create new threats for journalists and whistleblowers (due to vague text on the misuse of trade secrets),"

1. Other countries need to be obligated to have stiffer copyright terms so there is actual product protection.

2.Fair use has been anything but. Who can argue there is no current model keeping up with everyone using other peoples stuff for monetary gain.

3.copyright infringement should have criminal sanctions. You can't share 100k copies of some digital medium and get away with it. Your a theif and if you showed up trying to take from me I'd put you in a box. Just because you hide behind a computer doesn't make you any less a theif.

4.I think we can all safely say that journalist aren't scared to break a story. Everyone is after click bait.

"Well folks, welcome to slavery and corporate control over every aspect of your worthless, meaningless, pathetic lives."

Nice opening line. I find plenty of meaning in my life, you should try and do the same. You consider yourself an advocate? You do realize that through your own lack of critical thinking you have become an advocate for the very thing you claim to rail against?? Funny. Your cause would impact millions of Americans in a negative way. Your fighting on the wrong side here mate. Wake up. Stop being manipulated to fight for the ignorant.

I'm retiring from this thread. Good day

As you may notice folks few republicans voted against this horrible TPP.

The only ones that did are democrats primarily.

I think only 1 republican voted against this!


For those left/right paradigm people who don’t ever want to acknowledge this reality: that although both parties suck, the GOP is extremely worst! Its like cancer versus a head cold...


They (the GOP) are DIRECTLY plugged into the powerful and rich elite masters of industry and finance in America.

The Dems are too but in the congress you do still find amongst the Democrats, policy wise, on occasion, some human beings.

The GOP are ALL inhuman and bought and paid for DIRECTLY...they are the party of EVIL.

That’s THE ONLY reason they are even in politics, to protect the assets of the wealthy.

Another thing about TPP.

It is the direct order of the elite masters to Obama to pass TPP

That’s one reason he was elected.

Since Kennedy’s assassination by these same people they no longer will risk another independent president like Kennedy was. No more independent rich boys or girls.

Therefore they elect and will ONLY elect poor white and black trash such as Obama and Bill Clinton and amongst the GOP some poor rich white trash like the Bush’s.


NEVER again will they allow a true independent president who is not in their pocket

So TPP, enacted by Obama and the GOP as NAFTA was similarly (I believe enacted)






Listen to Ross Perot, an independent CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT( WHO THEY WOULD NEVER LET GET ELECTED) denounce these criminal conspiratorial Trade deal scams.

He’s next to 2 of the most slavish puppets of the elite in the world Bill Clinton and George Bush the first

originally posted by: CranialSponge
Ahhhh yes... the TPP.


Sovereign countries being forced into globally-united corporatization, with the Fortune 500 at the helm.

Weeeeeee !

Yeah, but Global is the only natural progression.

When you watch Pale Blue Dot, how can you not think how stupid we are not to work together as a whole?

originally posted by: In4ormant
"Well folks, welcome to slavery and corporate control over every aspect of your worthless, meaningless, pathetic lives."

Nice opening line. I find plenty of meaning in my life, you should try and do the same. You consider yourself an advocate? You do realize that through your own lack of critical thinking you have become an advocate for the very thing you claim to rail against?? Funny. Your cause would impact millions of Americans in a negative way. Your fighting on the wrong side here mate. Wake up. Stop being manipulated to fight for the ignorant.

I'm retiring from this thread. Good day

Glad you liked it.

I can see you have once again ignored anything I've said and just continue spouting the same nonsense. How very trollish of you. You keep mentioning only the Anon video even though I pointed specifically to Reich's video. So I take it you're just ignoring that as well. So let's see what he has to say shall we??

First who's Robert Reigch??

ROBERT B. REICH, Chancellor’s Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley and Senior Fellow at the Blum Center for Developing Economies, was Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration. Time Magazine named him one of the ten most effective cabinet secretaries of the twentieth century. He is also a founding editor of the American Prospect magazine and chairman of Common Cause.

Now what does he say???

What’s been leaked about it so far reveals, for example, that the pharmaceutical industry gets stronger patent protections, delaying cheaper generic versions of drugs. That will be a good deal for Big Pharma but not necessarily for the inhabitants of developing nations who won’t get certain life-saving drugs at a cost they can afford.

The TPP also gives global corporations an international tribunal of private attorneys, outside any nation’s legal system, who can order compensation for any “unjust expropriation” of foreign assets.

Even better for global companies, the tribunal can order compensation for any lost profits found to result from a nation’s regulations. Philip Morris is using a similar provision against Uruguay (the provision appears in a bilateral trade treaty between Uruguay and Switzerland), claiming that Uruguay’s strong anti-smoking regulations unfairly diminish the company’s profits.

Anyone believing the TPP is good for Americans take note: The foreign subsidiaries of U.S.-based corporations could just as easily challenge any U.S. government regulation they claim unfairly diminishes their profits – say, a regulation protecting American consumers from unsafe products or unhealthy foods, investors from fraudulent securities or predatory lending, workers from unsafe working conditions, taxpayers from another bailout of Wall Street, or the environment from toxic emissions.

The administration says the trade deal will boost U.S. exports in the fast-growing Pacific basin where the United States faces growing economic competition from China. The TPP is part of Obama’s strategy to contain China’s economic and strategic prowess.

Fine. But the deal will also allow American corporations to outsource even more jobs abroad.

In other words, the TPP is a Trojan horse in a global race to the bottom, giving big corporations and Wall Street banks a way to eliminate any and all laws and regulations that get in the way of their profits.

Now go debate that ignorance little troll.