Is There Evidence for Evolution? Show it to us.

originally posted by: cooperton
The dinosaur accounts of recent history have nothing to do with faith.

Wrong. They have EVERYTHING to do with faith. You are believing the stories blindly as absolute literal truth and thinking that all art is automatically an accurate depiction of reality when there is literally MOUNTAINS of evidence AGAINST that very notion... unless you concede that fairies, dwarfs, wizards and warp speed traveling aliens have been proven to exist.

These are matter-of-fact descriptions of dragons (dinosaurs).

I just made a series of posts that showed not only are the descriptions far from "matter of fact", but also that they require you to make numerous assumptions and leaps in logic. Virtually every claim you have made has been shot down by real facts that hold weight, even when you attempt to backtrack out of it.

I suggest you stop trying to reconcile your faith in evolution with reality. But, considering you believe your forefathers were apes, I don't expect you to correct your worldview any time soon.

This conversation isn't even about evolution. It's about you posting false claims that are far removed from reality and require numerous assumptions because there is zero hard evidence.

Funny how you ignored the majority of my post that debunked you. Par for the course I guess. Just don't post it again in a few months as if nothing happened.

originally posted by: peter vlar

There are also matter of fact depictions of leprechauns, Unicorns, elves, Fairies, gnomes, goblins, Thor, Odin, Valkyries, Freya, Thors flying 8 legged goats, Zeus, Apollo, Heracles, Gorgons, Chimeras, Hydras, Lions with impenetrable hides and on and on and on in every culture across the globe. One of your mid 17th century dragon depictions says It flew yet had tiny wings that any rational person understands is absolutely implausible.

Sometimes a story is just that, a story. Just like some artwork is merely stylized and not a literal depiction. People get Drunk on Mead and wine, eat Hallucinogenic substances and exaggerate things. It's a part of reality. You're ignorance regarding biological eviction and the voluminous evidence in favor of it, particularly in comparison to your "evidence" for the Existence Of dinosaurs continuing beyond the Cretaceous-Paleogene event.

The simple fact that you can't bother yourself to try to grasp the most basic aspects of evolutionary theory, particularly regarding the evolution of hominids is poignantly reinforced with your continuous statements intimating that apes are the forebearers of humanity when this is not at all what any aspect of evitionary theory postulates. We all share common ancestry, we did not evolve from apes. But you're still ongoing to fairy tales as if they were true life stories so I don't honestly expect you to take the time to educate yourself in and biological, life or earth science because it somehow conflicts with your indoctrinated faith.

I'm all for having your own point of view, thinking outside the box and postulating any number of zany thoughts. This is ATS after all. But insisting something is a fact based solely on confirmation bias with full blinders on while simultaneously attacking something you haven't bothered to learn the most basic fundamentals of is mind numbingly ignorant and you paint yourself in that light, with your own brush. I just Can't fathom Constantly mocking something that you're so unwilling to attempt to educate yourself on. I don't go on a religious rant or offer dissenting opinion without engaging in due diligence. It would behoove you to give it a try because then your systems won't seem as if they're
Coming from a McCarthy era Republican working at the local gas station. If you want your POV to be taken seriously you need to take yourself seriously enough to educate yourself a little.

Look... I am just trying to present another possibility. If dinosaurs existed during human times, then the theory of evolution must be reconsidered. I am not saying what you should choose to believe if you were to dismiss the theory of evolution, I am just presenting evidence that the theory is invalid. Sure, all the photos can be dismissed as photoshopped, artwork be dismissed as coincidence, and writings be dismissed as mythology... but there may be one day when this puzzle piece clicks for you, Barcs, and the others. Remember, EVERY culture across the globe, with few exceptions, have dragon "myths", this is not true for any other "mythological" creature. I do enjoy all of your critique, and I wish I had more time to deal with each statement more meticulously.

I defended the theory of evolution for 6 years... but things change.

a reply to: cooperton

So your evidence is based on fire breathing dinos? No dinosaur breathed fire. FACT! Which kinda renders your entire view point invalid. Listen, I'm all for new ideas, but when they ignore all the evidence, make up stories, and then twist reality to suit them... they're kinda missing the point.

a reply to: Barcs

Look... I am just trying to present another possibility. If dinosaurs existed during human times, then the theory of evolution must be reconsidered.

Coop, now I'm totally depressed. Ready to slit my wrists. You need to understand that speculation means nothing without hard evidence. You're drawing conclusions without ever doing any research yourself.

You also need to understand that when you challenge hard evidence, that only hard evidence can prove it right or wrong.
If you're so interested in this area of research, why aren't you out in the field collecting samples? Why aren't you analyzing samples with the tools that science has developed to discover whatever it is you're looking for??

Science is about discovery and evidence. Besides hard work, that's it I'm afraid.

If dinosaurs lived with humans, why would evolution have to be reconsidered? On what basis? What's the logic? Can you please explain that to me. There's no connection between the two except fossil dating which has been discussed ad infinitum with absolutely zero folks on your side understanding the physics.

I need a martini..........
Yikes

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: Barcs

Look... I am just trying to present another possibility. If dinosaurs existed during human times, then the theory of evolution must be reconsidered.

Coop, now I'm totally depressed. Ready to slit my wrists. You need to understand that speculation means nothing without hard evidence. You're drawing conclusions without ever doing any research yourself.

You also need to understand that when you challenge hard evidence, that only hard evidence can prove it right or wrong.
If you're so interested in this area of research, why aren't you out in the field collecting samples? Why aren't you analyzing samples with the tools that science has developed to discover whatever it is you're looking for??

Science is about discovery and evidence. Besides hard work, that's it I'm afraid.

If dinosaurs lived with humans, why would evolution have to be reconsidered? On what basis? What's the logic? Can you please explain that to me. There's no connection between the two except fossil dating which has been discussed ad infinitum with absolutely zero folks on your side understanding the physics.

I need a martini..........
Yikes

Sorry - this was meant for cooperton - somehow it was directed at Barcs. Sorry Barcs.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: Barcs

Look... I am just trying to present another possibility. If dinosaurs existed during human times, then the theory of evolution must be reconsidered.

Coop, now I'm totally depressed. Ready to slit my wrists. You need to understand that speculation means nothing without hard evidence. You're drawing conclusions without ever doing any research yourself.

You also need to understand that when you challenge hard evidence, that only hard evidence can prove it right or wrong.
If you're so interested in this area of research, why aren't you out in the field collecting samples? Why aren't you analyzing samples with the tools that science has developed to discover whatever it is you're looking for??

Science is about discovery and evidence. Besides hard work, that's it I'm afraid.

If dinosaurs lived with humans, why would evolution have to be reconsidered? On what basis? What's the logic? Can you please explain that to me. There's no connection between the two except fossil dating which has been discussed ad infinitum with absolutely zero folks on your side understanding the physics.

I need a martini..........
Yikes

This concerns me. A Martini?

originally posted by: cooperton

Look... I am just trying to present another possibility.

Which once again, I find no fault in. Where I find fault is that you believe that what you are presenting is conclusive hard, empirical evidence that trumps the mountains of evidence demonstrating that evolution is indeed a fact.

If dinosaurs existed during human times, then the theory of evolution must be reconsidered.

why is that? it's not like nothing from the Cretaceous has survived until the present. none of that disproves or alters evolution.

I am not saying what you should choose to believe if you were to dismiss the theory of evolution, I am just presenting evidence that the theory is invalid.

No you're presenting unsubstantiated conjecture because you don't believe in the science and are cherry picking things that suit your personal POV and excluding everything that takes a steaming dump on it. Ken Ham is that you?

Sure, all the photos can be dismissed as photoshopped, artwork be dismissed as coincidence, and writings be dismissed as mythology... but there may be one day when this puzzle piece clicks for you, Barcs, and the others.

And just like I would for any other topic, if the evidence presents itself and is empirically conclusive then I would follow the appropriate data like any good scientist does. That data isn't there though.

Remember, EVERY culture across the globe, with few exceptions, have dragon "myths", this is not true for any other "mythological" creature.

And in all of those cultures and places, there are also large lizards or large fossilized remains found that have inspired many stories and myths. I've gone over all of this in multiple threads with you though and just don't see the need to retread tired ground because nothing I say is going to alter your beliefs. here are a couple of good articles though that cover the material I've discussed repeatedly in the past.

www.livescience.com...

www.smithsonianmag.com...

I do enjoy all of your critique, and I wish I had more time to deal with each statement more meticulously.

I defended the theory of evolution for 6 years... but things change.

sure things change... its the very nature of evolution!

a reply to: MarsIsRed

I think maybe "A" martini is an understatement. Perhaps a pitcher of Martinis would do the job though. I'll take mine with vodka though, gin gives me a nasty hangover and I've got surgery tomorrow so they'll probably frown on that when I check into the hospital tomorrow morning.

a reply to: peter vlar

GL with the surgery.

I dunno I just could never see the appeal of a vodka martini... the "shaken not stirred" thing tends to make the vodka go all cloudy, and the taste is just... not the best. Maybe I just need to have one made by a good barman, but I prefer gin, though it has to be a good gin and good vermouth - hardly any vermouth though - basically just pure gin that's been slightly tainted with vermouth.. and stirred - none of that shaking nonsense because you bruise the gin..

a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

Thanks, I'll be bionic by tomorrow afternoon with a titanium/ceramic composite jammed into my pelvis. Should be fun once they get the IV going. But on to more important matters... I've just never been a Gin guy. Could never get into it and the hangover is brutal. The vodka just works for me and is much more gentle on my constitution. It's been awhile though so perhaps it's time to not be so damned stubborn and give one a try just for the heck of it. Something to treat myself to once I got home in a couple of days. I'll probably still be around here lurking somewhere. I'm just going to try to refrain from posting under the influence of whatever they're hooking me up to post op so I don't post anything to out there haha

a reply to: peter vlar

I think maybe "A" martini is an understatement. Perhaps a pitcher of Martinis would do the job though. I'll take mine with vodka though, gin gives me a nasty hangover and I've got surgery tomorrow so they'll probably frown on that when I check into the hospital tomorrow morning.

I have developed a taste for Greyhounds lately. No, not the evolved wolf, but the mixture of grapefruit juice and vodka or gin. The heck with the doctor and his cholesterol pills - Greyhounds are terrific.

a reply to: rnaa
Beer makes you cheer

Whiskey makes you frisky

Gin makes you sin

Cold Duck...

a reply to: peter vlar

Thanks, I'll be bionic by tomorrow afternoon with a titanium/ceramic composite jammed into my pelvis.

Good luck with that. You getting the 'Full Monty' or the 'Birmingham'?

I got a Birmingham back in 'aught seven' and its been great. I think I'm closing in on another one on the other side.

Do the rehab a little harder than the physio commands and you'll be sweet.

originally posted by: coopertonRemember, EVERY culture across the globe, with few exceptions, have dragon "myths", this is not true for any other "mythological" creature.

Care to share some evidence to this claim??

As far as I know, dragons myths are not that widespread...

Except if you talk about everyone's favorite dragon...



Ancient Greeks proved that human imagination was not that bad in ancient times and some stories are even live today, from Hydra that turns human into stone to Zeus... Today we acknowledge their wild imagination and know all of this to be just fairy tales.... and I don't see how possibly you can't see similarity with your fairy tales...If you think your religion is any different except being monotheistic, please point at why.

More evidence of photoshop being used in the Pteranodon photo.







frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com...

Article that explains it. It's actually a manufactured copy of a different picture. It isn't from 1870.

originally posted by: SuperFrog

Care to share some evidence to this claim??

As far as I know, dragons myths are not that widespread...

All Across the globe.

en.wikipedia.org...

So your evidence is based on fire breathing dinos? No dinosaur breathed fire. FACT!

For example, the bombardier beetle can create fire. How do you know no dinosaur breathed fire? Although most dragon myths don't involve a fire-breathing aspect, our ancestors described such a trait in multiple accounts. If it was a soft tissue organ it would not be found in fossilized remains, so contemporary science must rely on historical accounts.

but I prefer gin, though it has to be a good gin and good vermouth

Whiskey on ice does the trick.

originally posted by: cooperton
All Across the globe.

en.wikipedia.org...

Please note that your 'all across the globe' is actually Asia (Chinese and Indian mythologies that had large influence on migration to Europe, thus east and later west Europe. While in Africa, stories were actually about snakes, not dragons. (those are 2 different things, don't you think so?)

I am sure that we would by now notice fried food in dino's diet... but none was ever found...

scienceline.ucsb.edu...

originally posted by: SuperFrog

Please note that your 'all across the globe' is actually Asia (Chinese and Indian mythologies that had large influence on migration to Europe, thus east and later west Europe. While in Africa, stories were actually about snakes, not dragons. (those are 2 different things, don't you think so?)

I am sure that we would by now notice fried food in dino's diet... but none was ever found...

scienceline.ucsb.edu...

For the love.. just do your own research. google "______ dragon myths" and put a continent, country or culture into the blank space. you will find many.


So.... this was uploaded 5 days ago. Unfortunately, due to our current era of video-editing technology, we will never know if its real or not:

Pterosaur spotting in Idaho

a reply to: cooperton

The fact that it would require a breeding population, and that Pterosaurs have been extinct for quite some time (check the fossil record) would indicate that you are easily mislead.

originally posted by: aorAki
a reply to: cooperton

The fact that it would require a breeding population, and that Pterosaurs have been extinct for quite some time (check the fossil record) would indicate that you are easily mislead.

fake Pterosaur/pterodactly sightings must be a fad then:

1) www.youtube.com...

2) www.youtube.com...

and more pictures of shot-down pteranodons: www.youtube.com...

I don't know how more proof could be given? Does it have to be on FOX news for you all to believe it?