Could abortion be considered a double standard?

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Personally, I think a fair way to address the situation would be the following:
A woman finds out she's pregnant. By law she must inform the man involved. He has 2 weeks to decide whether he intends to be involved or not.

I couldn't agree more on your whole statement. It's clear, precise and logic.

Men should have a say, the way things are now are not fair.

Again --- blame the child?

NO WAY! Both are fully responsible no matter the end result.

Firstly, the child is not the woman's body...period.

Secondly, the man is always on the hook if the mother decides to choose life. The man cannot abort his way out of the pregnancy as can the woman. Once the mother gives birth the man is now legally financially responsible for the child. Sure, a man can run from responsibility but he cannot hide. The law will always find him.

a reply to: WanderingSage

I agree, men get shafted on this issue, what if the man really wants that child, says he will even quit his job to look after it. But the woman is like no way this puts a crimp in my life style. Ultimately she can abort and the man gets no say, that is not equality. The my body my choice ideology wins the day.
An even bigger variable would be if doctors say the man can never contribute to his partner having children, thus why they aren't having children or using birth control, but biology being what it is somehow it happens and it is viewed by both the doctors and the man as the only chance for him to have child.
Now this once in life chance has tremendous value, does the woman have the right to kill it ?

originally posted by: Lanisius
Firstly, the child is not the woman's body...period.

Secondly, the man is always on the hook if the mother decides to choose life. The man cannot abort his way out of the pregnancy as can the woman.

It's almost funny how many say a woman shouldn't spread her legs if she doesn't want to get pregnant.

But, the man is somehow a victim.

a reply to: Phage

Stuff he sheds on an ongoing basis. The female is quite a bit more invested. Hardly an equal contribution.

Tell that to judge ruling on child-support.

originally posted by: Lanisius
Firstly, the child is not the woman's body...period.

But the child is IN the woman's body, hence her decision on whether it gets to stay there.

a reply to: KaDeCo

Tell that to judge ruling on child-support.

The discussion is about the woman having an abortion without the "father's" consent.

That sort of cancels the question of child support, don't you think?

a reply to: kellyjay

and the woman cant put in her UID properly or take the pill how it is meant to be taken to avoid such a circumstance....

LOL! You're not a woman are you?! Women don't put in their IUD's themselves, doctors do it, and can cost around $600+ to have it done.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Now this once in life chance has tremendous value, does the woman have the right to kill it ?

Yes. According to law.
Or are you saying that a man has a right to produce children, no matter what?

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: WanderingSage

An even bigger variable would be if doctors say the man can never contribute to his partner having children, thus why they aren't having children or using birth control, but biology being what it is somehow it happens and it is viewed by both the doctors and the man as the only chance for him to have child.
Now this once in life chance has tremendous value, does the woman have the right to kill it ?

You find me ONE case where a couple was in a long term, committed relationship, the man was deemed sterile, the woman became pregnant by him anyway, and here's their one chance at having a baby and she goes and has an abortion without his consent....and I will go march with the pro-lifers and carry a dead fetus sign. I don't think that situation has ever happened in the history of the world.

In reality, if the partner of a 'sterile' man became pregnant, one of two things would happen. Either they both decided they're cool with childlessness, in which case an abortion is no big deal to them. Or the woman would him so much that she would go through with it to fulfill his dreams of fatherhood.

Using an example that has a 1 in 10 billion chance of happening isn't the most effective debate technique.

originally posted by: Lanisius
Firstly, the child is not the woman's body...period.

What criteria does something INSIDE the woman's body have to meet to NOT be part of a woman's body?

Is the umbilical cord part of her body? Are her eggs part of her body?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What criteria does something INSIDE the woman's body have to meet to NOT be part of a woman's body?

Would being somebody else qualify?

The zygote, the first cell of a new organism with an individual genome (2n4C) is created by the alignment of the maternal chromosomes together with the paternal ones on a common spindle apparatus.

www.embryology.ch...

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

What about the placenta? Is that part of the woman's body? Surely she should be able to have the placenta removed... It will kill the fetus, but it IS an organ that belongs to her.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: kellyjay

and the woman cant put in her UID properly or take the pill how it is meant to be taken to avoid such a circumstance....

LOL! You're not a woman are you?!

That's what I've been thinking for awhile.

Stuff just wasn't adding up.

a reply to: windword
I'm not a woman and I know that.

I admit though, I don't know what a UID is.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Wow. I'm not sure who the placenta ''belongs to''. Does it matter? The claim in question is the identity of the 'choice'.

a reply to: Phage

LOL!

I U D

haha...
you crack me up!
You know what it is!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: WanderingSage

Well the child gets blame and killed in an abortion.

A fetus is not blamed, nor is it a child.

Your entire belief system is built upon this presumption, isn't it?

And some were calling the OP dogmatic...

Ever wonder what happens if you're wrong? If 'fetus' and 'baby' are just words, with subjective connotations despite the fact that they refer to the same entity?

Best not to think about that, eh? Which scares you more: supporting the snuffing out innocent lives, or just being wrong?

Oh, gosh, did I go off topic?

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Your entire belief system is built upon this presumption, isn't it?

No. It is a part (a small part) of my "belief system."
But I'm not the topic.

I've got a question for all the people who think that "men should have an equal choice in child-birth" issue.

Since there's 2 people involved... who do you think gets the final say if it's a dead-lock (one "for", one "against") situation?