American Paratroopers in Ukraine Have Putin Rattled

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
WE DON'T WANT TO OCCUPY RUSSIA.
We want Russia to back off Ukraine and surrounding countries.

You are right, US does not want to occupy.

First it wants to break Russia into pieces called with different names and then conduct occupation via puppet governments.

US tried that in middle east but despite outcomes not coming out friendly, DC wants to try same formula in Russia's near abroad.

Tense situation can easily escalate into Trouble very quickly.

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: cavtrooper7

IF the US is SO HOSTILE and voracious WHY does Russia still exist?

Russia is a bit too big a fish to fry for the Americans....they can slaughter innocent people all day long...but a well equipped, motivated, and well trained force....LOL...NOT.


You my sadly misguided friend, have been watching too much Fox News...and you are a prime example that there are some men you just can't reach.

Good day to you sir.

Russia hardly has well trained and motivated forces. This is something they admit and have desperately tried to fix. The goal was to have professional Russian military along the lines of the West. Professional soldiers, a strong NCO corps, and a trained reserve.

Do to massive corruption all that has failed. Most of Russian forces remain 1 year conscripts who the Russians consider unready for combat in Georgia and Ukraine. After a year those men go into the reserves where they no longer train nor drill. Russia is having a hard time just keeping forces in Ukraine because they have to rotate out the limited number of professional soldiers.

The reason they can not make the move to a professional force is lack of volunteers. It is the same reason the 6 NCO academies that were planned to build a professional western style NCO corps has produced a single academy that that is rarely even 50% filled. Again do to lack of volunteers.

Even with conscription Russia can not fill out the military's authorized strength of 1.2 million. Medical deferments and other deferments are bought and sold for those with a little money and for others the often just never show up or just leave. These go unreported because the money that would be used to train, equip, and feed these ghost soldiers then goes into the pockets of unit commanders.

When recruiters showed up at units to try a coerce conscripts into extending contracts a fighting for the glory of Russian in Ukraine, entire units got up and went come. Not even the Russian soldiers think they have any business in Ukraine.

On the plus side the Navy seems to be the only branch of service that is not totally corrupt and has some decent leadership. In the last Georgia conflict while the Army was rolling in lost, with no communications, missing equipment and units undermanned and shooting down more Russian aircraft than Georgia and while the Russian Air Force could not gain air superiority over a nation that had no air force to speak of, the Russian Navy was able to sortie and went about complex maneuvers. To bad nobody else in the Russian military seems to want to copy whatever it is the navy is doing right.

So you might want to be careful when you toss around terms like motivated and well trained.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Have you missed the fact that Russia's air force is literally falling apart? Or what about the fact that most of Russia's military is composed of one year conscripts with only a few months training?

Can you link any credible sources for these claims? Forgive me if I don't trust your assertions, but with the love of Americans to bash everything Russian...especially certain members here...I want to see some proof.

a reply to: MrSpad

Russia hardly has well trained and motivated forces. This is something they admit and have desperately tried to fix. The goal was to have professional Russian military along the lines of the West. Professional soldiers, a strong NCO corps, and a trained reserve.

A well thought out response...well done.

But absolutely no credible sources to back up any of the assertions you have made.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

NOT when the wall came down you weren't.
We could have overun to the point where you had ONLY nukes

What's with this "you" stuff? I'm a Canadian....I live in Canada.

I've never been to Russia let alone met Putin. Nor has he ever called me to consult on Russian tactics. I think we can knock off the "you" stuff.

a reply to: deadcalm

SAME SIDE.
Just less informed I guess.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

SAME SIDE.

I'm on my own side. I decide what I believe is right or wrong based on my own morals...and my own research. I served my country....I know many career officers and enlisted men that feel the same as I do.

Right now I'm ashamed of my government's complicity in war crimes...and of their ridiculously hypocritical support for Israel....and the US.

Just less informed I guess.

You would be entirely mistaken if you believed that.

ALAS....we must agree to disagree.

a reply to: deadcalm

Seven crashes in seven weeks is hardly in good condition. Eight if you count the gunship at the airshow.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: cavtrooper7

SAME SIDE.

I'm on my own side. I decide what I believe is right or wrong based on my own morals...and my own research. I served my country....I know many career officers and enlisted men that feel the same as I do.

Right now I'm ashamed of my government's complicity in war crimes...and of their ridiculously hypocritical support for Israel....and the US.

Just less informed I guess.

You would be entirely mistaken if you believed that.

ALAS....we must agree to disagree.

Canada committing war crimes again how dare they. Im guessing you don't like Canadian support for Ukraine? They are pushing harder then even the United States to defendthem. I mean how dare those Canadians thinking Ukraine has a right to be independent shame on them.

a reply to: GD21D

Or the fact Russia is making up the boogeyman west in order to distract Russian citizens from Putins incompetence. Putin was on his way out the door before he rigged the last election. The protests that followed were a danger to Putin and so he needed an external threat to distract them.

Since he made a complete mess out of Ukraine and cant withdraw his forces since it would mean allowing the "Nazis" to win, he needs to distract attention again, this time away from Ukraine.

That would be the arctic.

Soviet Paranoia was fail during the cold war.
Putins paranoia is fail as well.

a reply to: deadcalm

In fact, the chapter on Russian military reform prior to the Georgian conflict shows that the decline of the Russian military largely paralleled that of the Ukrainian military until the late 2000s. There was a little more funding, to be sure, which allowed for more capabilities to be preserved through better maintenance and slightly more training. And Russia’s strategic nuclear component continued to receive preferential treatment and higher levels of funding even at the worst of economic times. But both the Russian and Ukrainian militaries were dependent on outdated mobilization schemes that were impractical outside of a dictatorial system. In both services, low pay and poor living conditions discouraged potential recruits from signing up as professional soldiers, while demographic decline and draft avoidance had a negative effect on conscription rates. As a result, both militaries were seriously understaffed, with few units at anything approaching full manning levels.

Mikhail Barabanov, the author of the chapters on Russian military reform, highlights the importance of the Serdyukov reform in creating a more effective Russian military over the last five years. He shows that most of the Russian military’s problems stemmed from its effort to maintain two armies at the same time – the traditional mobilization army and a constant readiness rapid response force – while barely having enough money for one. The key aspects of the Serdyukov reform have been described in numerous publications and do not need to be reprised here. The book summarizes them quite effectively, discussing both the successes and failures of the effort. Oddly, though, while Barabanov views the reform as quite successful overall, every aspect of the reform that he discusses at any length is shown to have largely failed. This leaves the reader wondering how it is possible that a reform that was mostly unsuccessful in achieving any of its specific goals resulted in such an increase in military effectiveness. In reality, several aspects of the reform have been remarkably successful, including the elimination of mass mobilization as the core concept of the military structure, the shift to mobile brigades, and increased training. Other aspects, such as streamlining command and control and improving joint operations among services, are still a work in progress. Finally, the reform did effectively fail in a few areas, especially in manpower and improving the education system. The Russian military today continues to be divided into a less effective set of regular units, many with vacant billets and older equipment, and a smaller number of permanent readiness units that have been first in line for new weapons and are largely staffed by professional soldiers who train regularly under a variety of conditions.

warontherocks.com...

Mr Serdyukov smashed through the remaining resistance. The size of the armed forces would be cut from 1.2m to about 1m. The bloated officer corps was to be slimmed by almost 50%, while the creation of well-trained NCOs became a priority. Conscription would stay, but better pay and conditions would create a more professional army. The reforms replaced the old four-tier command system of military districts, armies, divisions, and regiments with a two-tier system of strategic commands and leaner, more mobile combat brigades. Nikolas Gvosdev of the US Naval War College says: “The intention was to be able to throw force around in the region and create ‘facts on the ground.’”

A fast-rising defence budget provided more money for maintenance and training, allowing large-scale exercises to become routine, while funding pensions and housing for retired officers. Mr Serdyukov also set out to instil better accountability and to attack corruption that, by some estimates, was siphoning off a third of the equipment budget. But the biggest reform was a ten-year weapons-modernisation programme launched in 2010, at a cost of $720 billion. The aim was to go from only 10% of kit classed as “modern” to 70% by 2020. According to IHS Jane’s, Russia’s defence spending has nearly doubled in nominal terms since 2007. This year alone it will rise by 18.4%.

www.economist.com...

How would you like Russian paratroopers in Mexico?

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: Vector99

On the other hand, if the US wasn't there Russia likely would have fully invaded Ukraine by now.

What evidence do you have of that?

Ukraine was a sovereign nation for more than 24 years, yet Russia made no move to invade any part of it. Let me assure you that if Russia wants the Ukraine....they can take it any time they choose. But they don't.

Remember that this was all started by the US backed coup (via Victoria Nuland)...which overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader and put a bunch of ultra nationalist fascists in power in Kiev.

Well first off I said LIKELY, meaning it's an assumption, and 2nd, Crimea.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
How would you like Russian paratroopers in Mexico?

Don't think the US would care but I have a hunch Mexico might mind. Don't think the Russian pat a troopers would last long in Mexico they don't like foreign military in their country obviously.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Biggest problem Russian military has is they can't let go of Soviet doctrine. There officers were trained on it. Other problem is just a basic lack of concern for their troops. People go in for their one year co script their experience is so bad they vow never to return. This only leaves the ones who are incapable that remain. Russia never figured out how important it is to provide housing and benefits to enlisted to make them want to stay.

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: MrSpad

Russia hardly has well trained and motivated forces. This is something they admit and have desperately tried to fix. The goal was to have professional Russian military along the lines of the West. Professional soldiers, a strong NCO corps, and a trained reserve.

A well thought out response...well done.

But absolutely no credible sources to back up any of the assertions you have made.

None of this comes from anything but, open sources. Granted you need to read about 7 years worth of material. I would suggest starting with reading about the Russian Georgian conflict in 2008. Then follow up with reading on different reforms attempted in the Russian military since.

One success they had was purging 200,000 officers. They literally had officers with no men to command. They also improved their version of GPS. The big reforms just never worked out. Between the military resisting them and corruption eating away at the funding needed things in Russian military just keep rolling along the same way. You should also read up on the decline of the Russian defense industry. The Russian just can not produce advanced weapons systems in large numbers with out huge quality issues. It is the reason Russian arms sales have been losing out to the US/Europe and China. You should also do so looking into how the military has purposely ruined Putins attempts to modernize the reserve system. Which they are now trying again, with a goal of 5000 reservists in the next few years being drilled and payed on a regular basis like reserves in the West. Granted this is all a great deal of reading and research but, if you really want to know it is not hard to find.

originally posted by: pheonix358


They reacted when the US installed a puppet regime after throwing out the democratically elected government.

That would be the puppet regime parliament that was exactly the same as the non-puppet regime parliament from the 2012 elections?
***SNIP***

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: MrSpad

Russia hardly has well trained and motivated forces. This is something they admit and have desperately tried to fix. The goal was to have professional Russian military along the lines of the West. Professional soldiers, a strong NCO corps, and a trained reserve.

A well thought out response...well done.

But absolutely no credible sources to back up any of the assertions you have made.

Granted this is all a great deal of reading and research but, if you really want to know it is not hard to find.

Why would they do that when RT can tell them the real scoop
/sarc

originally posted by: MrSpad

None of this comes from anything but, open sources. Granted you need to read about 7 years worth of material. I would suggest starting with reading about the Russian Georgian conflict in 2008. Then follow up with reading on different reforms attempted in the Russian military since.

it is pretty easy to google "Russian Federation military reforms" and get an extensive list of articles......assuming you know of sites other than rt.com of course!!

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
How would you like Russian paratroopers in Mexico?

Are they invited in by Mexico for training? Or are you referring to Russian troops in Mexico like we see Russian troops invading Ukraine?