MH17: 'Russian missile parts' at Ukraine crash site

Think here is a good summary of all the information released over the past year.
www.bbc.com...

originally posted by: LesBrocknar
a reply to: Zaphod58

A cannon isn't going to cause an instantaneous explosion of the aircraft like we saw here. It will take a few seconds if not longer.

What is the difference? Why does it matter wether the plane desintegrates a second after a BUK detonation, or 2 or 3 seconds after a large caliber gun started firing at the cockpit?

Based upon some amateur video I saw in the first few days after the shoot down, apparently taken down from the internet, the airliner may have taken one up the tail pipe of the left engine. That is, air-to-air missile, heat-seeking type, up the tail pipe.

One missile like that, target begins to go out of control, fighter maneuvers for the cannon shot to the cockpit, maybe 2 fighters.

That is my theory.

a reply to: Salander

There is no video that shows the incident. The only video shows wreckage on fire just before it hits the ground. There is a video that claims to be from this that was taken a month before of an An-26 that was shot down.

If they had need hit by like that the crew could have radioed a mayday or some kind of call, and it would have shown up on the recorders.

a reply to: Salander

One missile like that, target begins to go out of control, fighter maneuvers for the cannon shot to the cockpit, maybe 2 fighters.

And what two fighters would be able to do this?

The plane that has been said is the one is not capable of doing that at 33,000 ft, so there goes that theory.

Or they were shot down by a BUK missile that has been already acknowledged as being in the area at the time, and it was in the control of the separatists at the time.

SO no plane, no cannon fire, but BUK fragments at the crash site...sorry more evidence a BUK did this than there is it was a ground attack jet.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

As I have posted several times here, the case that it MUST HAVE BEEN a 25 has not been made. That it was a stock, older model under-powered 25 has not been made. NO case has been made to the type aircraft. The Russians said it was a flight of 25s climbing, but it's entirely possible they were wrong or their radar had been spoofed.

Because the US version is that no aircraft were involved, I say why not a 27?

No case on aircraft type has been made, and no case for the BUK has been made. Sadly for the US version, the cockpit was shot up by cannon fire. One must follow the facts.

Edit: A question for you or anybody else: what is the nearest air base to the shoot down point from which fighter aircraft could be launched? I do not know the answer, but maybe you do.

a reply to: Salander

As I have posted several times here, the case that it MUST HAVE BEEN a 25 has not been made.

Then why do Russian trolls keep claiming that it was? Because that's all the Ukrainian air force has.

That it was a stock, older model under-powered 25 has not been made.

I agree. The problem is that if it were a newer model, or a proper fighter-interceptor, it would prove that it was shot down by Russia.

NO case has been made to the type aircraft. The Russians said it was a flight of 25s climbing, but it's entirely possible they were wrong or their radar had been spoofed.

Or that they were just plain lying.

Because the US version is that no aircraft were involved, I say why not a 27?

The US version is that it was shot down by a surface to air missile. There may or may not have been other planes in the area, but if there were, they are not responsible for the shoot-down.

No case on aircraft type has been made, and no case for the BUK has been made. Sadly for the US version, the cockpit was shot up by cannon fire. One must follow the facts.

And the fact of the matter is that the damage to the cockpit is not consistent with cannon fire. Also bear in mind that there were reports of the rebels cutting the wreckage up with chainsaws and firing guns at it in an attempt to make the evidence more ambiguous.

a reply to: dragonridr

I never said they paid with rubles. you are making things up.
I never said such a thing, you are a liar!
Show me where I used the word ruble and stop lying!

Try to make look foolish with your dirty lies!

I will not be called a liar by a liar himself.
Next time I do will report you.

I don't tell fake story's that you like to # dead body's in the eye.
It is not what I know about you.
But if you go along, people may think it is the truth.
It's not my style, but clearly it is your style
If I did tell such story's about you, You would (most likely) take steps too.

Stay with the truth, watch your language and stop spreading lies about me
I do warn you I will take steps against your dirty tricks.

You will not put words in my mouth I never said and tell I did.
Come with proof, liar!

Show me where I used ""ruble.""

Bad story teller you are and far from the truth is it!

Next time I show Overlord the news-article from the local newspaper , call the paper by name so the source can verified.
Hoping you will be banned.

You are suggesting I make things up, and will not allow that,

You yourself is the one who makes things up, you are telling lies, you try to make me look bad, with your dirty tricks.

You just could have asked to show the source, but blew your chance big-time.
When I get a offer to have you banned, when I show the source, I would be glad to do so.

Maybe you don't care to be called a liar, but I do give a damn.

I don't like to be reduced by a false storyteller, not at least by someone who is a liar himself.
Eat your ruble, swallow it!

a reply to: DJW001

How can you say that IF there were other aircraft in the area, they were not responsible for the shoot down?

The problem with the US version is that after all this time, they have not been able to provide supporting evidence for their theory. A year later, and all we have is the same old story with no supporting evidence.

At least the Russians turned over their radar data.

a reply to: Salander

How do you know the US didn't turn over anything to the Dutch that wasn't releasws yet? Not everything is released prior to the final report.

I always found it interesting that the "fighter" showed up at exactly the time that MH17 was destroyed and disappeared at about exactly the point the wreckage hit the ground.

a reply to: Salander

Edit: A question for you or anybody else: what is the nearest air base to the shoot down point from which fighter aircraft could be launched? I do not know the answer, but maybe you do.

I have a feeling your not going to like the answer. Since you believe that the cockpit was hit by cannon fire, the jet was probably coming from the northeast. The nearest base in that direction is Burtolinkovka:



The two nearest bases are Novocherkassk and Kuzminka, both also on Russian soil. The nearest Ukrainian base would be Zaporizhia:



Edit to add: The "witness" who claimed that he overheard Captain Voloshin murmuring about shooting down the "wrong plane" claimed that he was based in Aviatorskoe, near Dnepropetrovsk. This much further away and in the wrong direction.

a reply to: DJW001

A impossible non question.
I am not Putin.

What a citizen does depents on his motive.
Maybe his Briter is in Donbas, how can I know what the motive is,

I do not believe in a 600 dollar per day paying, blackwater-like commercial army in Donbas, that is hiring soldiers for a lot of money.

I do believe in ordinary citizens who are going from Russia to Donbas, to help close family.

Just logic, I have no knowledge.
Each freedomfighter can have other motivs.

Putin has not to admit to anything, and is not afraid, so that is again an other non-question.

""Where is he afraid of""?

A little more adultlike, matured questions please.
This is not possible to be answered.

You can do better.

originally posted by: Wasta
a reply to: dragonridr

I never said they paid with rubles. you are making things up.
I never said such a thing, you are a liar!
Show me where I used the word ruble and stop lying!

Try to make look foolish with your dirty lies!

I will not be called a liar by a liar himself.
Next time I do will report you.

I don't tell fake story's that you like to # dead body's in the eye.
It is not what I know about you.
But if you go along, people may think it is the truth.
It's not my style, but clearly it is your style
If I did tell such story's about you, You would (most likely) take steps too.

Stay with the truth, watch your language and stop spreading lies about me
I do warn you I will take steps against your dirty tricks.

You will not put words in my mouth I never said and tell I did.
Come with proof, liar!

Show me where I used ""ruble.""

Bad story teller you are and far from the truth is it!

Next time I show Overlord the news-article from the local newspaper , call the paper by name so the source can verified.
Hoping you will be banned.

You are suggesting I make things up, and will not allow that,

You yourself is the one who makes things up, you are telling lies, you try to make me look bad, with your dirty tricks.

You just could have asked to show the source, but blew your chance big-time.
When I get a offer to have you banned, when I show the source, I would be glad to do so.

Maybe you don't care to be called a liar, but I do give a damn.

I don't like to be reduced by a false storyteller, not at least by someone who is a liar himself.
Eat your ruble, swallow it!

Again translation problems suggest you read what I wrote. As far as your story well it's silly and has nothing to do with the topic. Your beliefs on the events was shall we say inventive but lacking reality. Your discussing Russians going shopping in their uniform as if this is relax any somehow. As for being a liar I never said that you made that claim. As for the rubles get a better translator and read what I said.

Now we don't need wild speculations as to what you believed happened this is about a bum missile shooting down my 17 so instead of your rants post something on topic. Thank you.

a reply to: Salander

How can you say that IF there were other aircraft in the area, they were not responsible for the shoot down?

Because the alleged witnesses disagree as to the number of planes and where they were. It is also suspicious that they were able to tell they were Ukrainian from over ten kilometers away.

originally posted by: Wasta
a reply to: DJW001

A impossible non question.
I am not Putin.

What a citizen does depents on his motive.
Maybe his Briter is in Donbas, how can I know what the motive is,

I do not believe in a 600 dollar per day paying, blackwater-like commercial army in Donbas, that is hiring soldiers for a lot of money.

I do believe in ordinary citizens who are going from Russia to Donbas, to help close family.

Just logic, I have no knowledge.
Each freedomfighter can have other motivs.

Putin has not to admit to anything, and is not afraid, so that is again an other non-question.

""Where is he afraid of""?

A little more adultlike, matured questions please.
This is not possible to be answered.

You can do better.

Doesn't sound like Russian mother's agree with you. They say putin has sent the Russian military into ukraine. And is covering up the deaths of their sons. There is little doubt Russian military is operating in ukraine. The only question is was the launcher given to separatists or is it handled by Russian troops. Russia has been sending tanks manned by Russian soldiers. This may be the result of mh17 maybe Putin decided not to give them access to heavy weapons without supervision.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Salander

How can you say that IF there were other aircraft in the area, they were not responsible for the shoot down?

Because the alleged witnesses disagree as to the number of planes and where they were. It is also suspicious that they were able to tell they were Ukrainian from over ten kilometers away.

Here's one
www.rtlnieuws.nl...

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been found at the Flight MH17 crash site in Ukraine, investigators in the Netherlands say.
They say the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could help show who was behind the crash.
But they say they have not proved their "causal connection" with the crash.

See how these people are liars.
If a buk was fired, it was far before the crash / crashside.
And only hollow words, no proof is shown,

The west is already cornered and make things only worse.
I am Dutch, my people have died.

But this showcase is a shame, I am very deeply ashamed by my own government,
I am proud to be Dutch, but can not stand the way this mh-17 case has been handled.

The sanctions, the punishment, while we know the truth.
The very fact that the truth has to stay a secret tells enough.

If we could blame Putin with proof, we surely would do so, but we can not.
We are to blame,
The forces the west has put in power is responsible.
So we are to blame,

We have the blood of the victims on our hands.

Parts of a russian missile at the crash site.
Bullocks!

These stupid commands make things even worse, it proofs we are lying again!
If parts of a buk were found they should have been found at the place of impact.
The stupidness is beyond shameful,

They did not find any parts of no buk what so ever!
If true the parts would have been shown.

They were not found before, so is any parts are shown, they are placed as false evidence.
It has become our middle name ""False flag"".

I have issues, but if I spoke Russian, I would be glad to leave the Netherlands, lease these liars and join the truth in Russia!
A contact I have over there, does ask me, why I am still here.
And wonder often myself.

Potin should protect everybody till the river don and make sure, that between the Don and Dnjepr is demilitarised, so Russia has a buffer from Nato.

The world is sick and tired of all those false flags again and again.

A stupid thread.

originally posted by: Wasta
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been found at the Flight MH17 crash site in Ukraine, investigators in the Netherlands say.
They say the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could help show who was behind the crash.
But they say they have not proved their "causal connection" with the crash.

See how these people are liars.
If a buk was fired, it was far before the crash / crashside.
And only hollow words, no proof is shown,

The west is already cornered and make things only worse.
I am Dutch, my people have died.

But this showcase is a shame, I am very deeply ashamed by my own government,
I am proud to be Dutch, but can not stand the way this mh-17 case has been handled.

The sanctions, the punishment, while we know the truth.
The very fact that the truth has to stay a secret tells enough.

If we could blame Putin with proof, we surely would do so, but we can not.
We are to blame,
The forces the west has put in power is responsible.
So we are to blame,

We have the blood of the victims on our hands.

Parts of a russian missile at the crash site.
Bullocks!

These stupid commands make things even worse, it proofs we are lying again!
If parts of a buk were found they should have been found at the place of impact.
The stupidness is beyond shameful,

They did not find any parts of no buk what so ever!
If true the parts would have been shown.

They were not found before, so is any parts are shown, they are placed as false evidence.
It has become our middle name ""False flag"".

I have issues, but if I spoke Russian, I would be glad to leave the Netherlands, lease these liars and join the truth in Russia!
A contact I have over there, does ask me, why I am still here.
And wonder often myself.

Potin should protect everybody till the river don and make sure, that between the Don and Dnjepr is demilitarised, so Russia has a buffer from Nato.

The world is sick and tired of all those false flags again and again.

A stupid thread.

They were shown in fact a reporter showed them and even had them tested as well. This was all over Dutch television are you sure your dutch?

a reply to: Salander

How can you say that IF there were other aircraft in the area, they were not responsible for the shoot down?

Well how come one of the many commercial jets in the area didn't report those other planes...one passenger airliner was only 15 miles away when it was shot down, and they reported nothing.

And I can say that because it didn't happen.

At least the Russians turned over their radar data.

That's really reliable...

And the US doesn't have to show their evidence to anyone but the investigators. And even if they did show it all the backers of Russia would say it's fake...I bet you would too.

If the Russians did this the international community would be in an uproar.

In addition, it serves absolutely no benefit to Russia however would serve to benefit the Ukraine government if they could blame it in the Russians. Apply Occam's Razor and the answer is clear.

a reply to: notmyrealname

No one is saying the Russians did this, but the Russians are adamant that Ukrainians did it. The Russians are therefore benefiting from its anti Ukraine value. Ukraine had nothing to gain by shooting it down. Apply Occam's Razor now.