U.S. Marshals Raid Wrong Apartment, Force Mother and Children to Stand Outside Naked at Gunpoint

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Bedlam

The daughter didn't answer the door, it was kicked in. The daughter also had *some* clothes on, most likely just underwear. The mother was naked.

It was 6:30 AM and they were still asleep.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still not quite sure how it relates to my comment. But then I just had my first cup of coffee.

originally posted by: Aazadan
... I think we should accept some level of error because no one is perfect all of the time.

It would seem to depend on the error. In this case, as raymundoko said, how do you stand there with your finger over the peephole and not see "201" or whatever that is right there in your face?

Some things require a bit of work prior to kicking in the door. "Am I in the right place" would seem to be very basic to this process. Might there be some circumstances where you don't have the time, and in that emergent circumstance might you or your team experience a bit of confusion that might lead to something like this? Maybe.

But this is not that case. They did have the time, and didn't take the time. It was negligent, amateurish, and unprofessional. And their response to having f-d up seems to be "Meh. Fill out a form"

Should they all be kicked out of law enforcement, no. Should they be handed some tools and made to repair the damage on their off day, yes. For no pay, yes. And then made to apologize to the family in front of their peers, very much yes. I think having to explain to the family that they were totally incompetent clowns in front of a number of their co-workers and supervisory staff would go a long long long way to making them think twice next time.

originally posted by: Bedlam
It would seem to depend on the error. In this case, as raymundoko said, how do you stand there with your finger over the peephole and not see "201" or whatever that is right there in your face?

I'm under the impression this happened at 3 am. If no porchlight was on they probably couldn't see the numbers. So the fault lies with two people, not the officer blocking the peephole but the guy running the operation who followed the wrong directions or the guy who planned the operation who wrote down the wrong house.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Bedlam
It would seem to depend on the error. In this case, as raymundoko said, how do you stand there with your finger over the peephole and not see "201" or whatever that is right there in your face?

I'm under the impression this happened at 3 am. If no porchlight was on they probably couldn't see the numbers. So the fault lies with two people, not the officer blocking the peephole but the guy running the operation who followed the wrong directions or the guy who planned the operation who wrote down the wrong house.

How hard is it to use a red penlight on the door?

a reply to: Bedlam

I bet the pizza delivery guy would have gotten the right address... LOL

originally posted by: Bedlam
How hard is it to use a red penlight on the door?

From a group that thinks flailing your arms while being tazed is making threatening motions and resisting arrest, and a group that thinks shooting a leashed up dog that only happens to weigh 10 pounds is doing what's necessary to go home at the end of their shift... I think it's very hard.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Aazadan
... I think we should accept some level of error because no one is perfect all of the time.

It would seem to depend on the error. In this case, as raymundoko said, how do you stand there with your finger over the peephole and not see "201" or whatever that is right there in your face?

Some things require a bit of work prior to kicking in the door. "Am I in the right place" would seem to be very basic to this process. Might there be some circumstances where you don't have the time, and in that emergent circumstance might you or your team experience a bit of confusion that might lead to something like this? Maybe.

But this is not that case. They did have the time, and didn't take the time. It was negligent, amateurish, and unprofessional. And their response to having f-d up seems to be "Meh. Fill out a form"

Should they all be kicked out of law enforcement, no. Should they be handed some tools and made to repair the damage on their off day, yes. For no pay, yes. And then made to apologize to the family in front of their peers, very much yes. I think having to explain to the family that they were totally incompetent clowns in front of a number of their co-workers and supervisory staff would go a long long long way to making them think twice next time.

Now there you go again, exhibiting common sense....talking like a crazy man....holding people responsible for their actions!

The mammalian side of my brain says your prescription for punishment is a good one. But as is often the case, the reptilian side wants to see them out picking up trash on the roadsides with the other Class D felons. That's probably because I don't think such a thing as a "no-knock" warrant should ever be issued. Our local law officers agree with me. They don't do them. But that's another subject...
The department owes this family. They are going to need to talk with professionals to get beyond this.

a reply to: infolurker

There are far too many of these being reported in the USA. There are likely others that are not reported by utterly terrified families and individuals.

I believe that these 'oops sorry wrong house' raids are beginning to look like something orchestrated for some purpose only a psychopath could imagine.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Not changing because the situation is too bad is not a reason not to change. Evolve or die. That is the ONLY law of nature. If you make policing requirements stricter, then the people necessary to accomplish that goal will rise up and show everyone else how its done. Then the ideas proliferate throughout and the problem is solved. Sure there may be a rough transitional period. But then again, most people being arrested these days are arrested for drug offenses. So I think we could do with a few less police officers anyways.

a reply to: Bedlam

Hah, sorry, I was meaning to reply to someone else who was asking why they were naked...

They must really hire from the bottom of the barrel and I can actually comment on this thread as almost every week I get sent to a new address to work on a new project and every week I GET THE RIGHT ADDRESS. NEVER ONCE have I showed up and worked on the WRONG HOUSE when sometimes the houses I build aren't even marked! I am just a construction worker with not much education and I can't understand how stupid these idiots with guns have to be to make this mistake so many times. If I was an American I would start a movement wearing shirts showing a badge covered in # and wrapped in bacon, thankfully our police here not as poorly trained.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Really?? you would pipe in with that? It's really weird that you would even bother to go that way.

I know everyone makes mistakes, but this kind should not happen and if it does, very very rarely

This is not cool. They had a job to do and screwed up big time. Thankfully no one was hurt or killed.

If I screwed up that bad with any kind of job I'm pretty sure I would be fired

but another thing, they're cops and they're job is a little bit more important to do without messing up,

that's what they get paid for er well maybe not.

a reply to: infolurker

I think the bigger question is why were the mother and daughter both naked?

a reply to: Danke

Because they were sleeping.

Is it a family of nudists or something? Sleeping naked around your children?

The daughter wasn't naked, she just wasn't dressed. The mom was naked.

a reply to: Danke

They were probably in separate rooms...

a reply to: Kromlech

a reply to: raymundoko

Oh okay that makes more sense.

I find the lack of tolerance regarding a mistake the police might make a bit laughable to be honest. Sure, they should be 100% perfect in their job. They won't be. Chaos, tension, a fluid situation.. they all will contribute and cause mistakes, it happens. What happens during the course of their job when they make mistakes is what is important, not that they made one.

The family being naked has nothing to do with this. They can't help the state of dress (or undress in this case) of someone in a house they are raiding. Once they realized their mistake they immediately moved on..which is what they had to do. How they reconcile with the family is important after the screw up.

Calling them beasts.. vile thugs.. etc.. is absolutely ridiculous. Call them stupid for being unable to read a Google map.. sure, ok. Or inept.. or whatever term applies. They are not thugs because they went to the wrong door. They carried out their job how they would have if that had been the correct address. Because they thought they did.

I'm not making excuses for them.. but it's funny to me how quickly people turn rabid towards the police, escalating a case of stupidity or ineptness into a perceived case of thuggery.. vile "beasts" who should be put in jail. Again.. this family choosing to run around their house naked has nothing to do with this.

a reply to: fleabit
No knock raids have a history of injuring and killing innocent people... especially when they target the wrong address.