Iran calls for Israel's nuclear disarmament

originally posted by: PickledOnion
a reply to: crazyewok

I have read about the USS liberty before. Israel warned that it would sink any unidentified ships in the area during the six day war(Attacked by 5 nations at once), the US knew about that but didn't listen, it was there own fault it was sunk, I don't blame the Israelis for it.

I really can't believe I just read this. They "warned that it would sink any unidentified ships" eh? Guess what. The USS Liberty was CLEARLY identified. After they shot the flag up, those sailors went out on deck, under fire and raised an even BIGGER US flag. Israel didn't care. They even shot up the life rafts. Their goal was to wipe out that ship and blame it on Egypt, in order to pull the United States into its conflict. Lucky for Israel, people like John McCains daddy and Macnamara called off ALL assistance to the Liberty. There were some Generals ready to drop a nuke on Israel. So just to clear up your mistake.. the USS Liberty was an unarmed intelligence ship, FULLY identified and in International waters. There is ZERO and I do mean Z E R O justification for what they did, and for our government officials to turn their backs on those sailors.

And let's kindly realize that the "official story" of the 6-days War is complete BS. Israel struck first, wiping out Egypts airforce. But of course, the typical response will be "they had to because they were in danger of being wiped out". Sure sure. Same reason why Israel pushed the United States to go to war with Iraq. I remember Netanyalunatic crying about Sadam, and Iraq, and how they would have a nuke in no time. They even went to far as to have that good old "Yellow Cake Uranium" document forged.

a reply to: Aazadan

So you deny that Israel uses the threat that if they go down others will be going down with them?

No. Israel do have a deterrence strategy for "last resort" situations. As every other superpower. Israel did not invent it, just gave it a name. But this is not what you said. No offence, but this is total BS -

They make heavy use of their Samson option to extract concessions in negotiations with neighbors. The US, UK, France, and everyone else knows that if they let Israel get so much as a black eye, they're going to be nuked.

Care to provide some examples that show how Israel got concessions in negotiations with neighbors by using the Samson option? Or how the US, UK, France, and everyone else know that if they let Israel get so much as a black eye, they're going to be nuked?

Pretty much, yes.

By this logic, you should not have a problem with Israel.
NPT entered into force in 1970.
The Israeli nuclear research center was built in the 50's. In the 60's they were telling to the world it's a textile factory.

Iran hasn't broken it.

Again...

Iran is a party to the NPT but was found in non-compliance with its NPT safeguards agreement and the status of its nuclear program remains in dispute. In November 2003 IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei reported that Iran had repeatedly and over an extended period failed to meet its safeguards obligations, including by failing to declare its uranium enrichment program. After about two years of EU3-led diplomatic efforts and Iran temporarily suspending its enrichment program, the IAEA Board of Governors, acting under Article XII.C of the IAEA Statute, found in a rare non-consensus decision with 12 abstentions that these failures constituted non-compliance with the IAEA safeguards agreement. This was reported to the UN Security Council in 2006, after which the Security Council passed a resolution demanding that Iran suspend its enrichment. Instead, Iran resumed its enrichment program.

originally posted by: MaxMech
No. Israel do have a deterrence strategy for "last resort" situations. As every other superpower. Israel did not invent it, just gave it a name. But this is not what you said. No offence, but this is total BS -

Israel's last resort doesn't just involve nukes aimed at their enemies, but also their allies. In their mind, that gives their allies a reason to stick close to them. I have no problem with this policy, it makes complete sense. It's just not a very nice thing to do.

Care to provide some examples that show how Israel got concessions in negotiations with neighbors by using the Samson option? Or how the US, UK, France, and everyone else know that if they let Israel get so much as a black eye, they're going to be nuked?

Have you looked at the amount of foreign aid they get? Or the leeway they get with Palestine? How about their propaganda radio show here that Sean Hannity puts on?

By this logic, you should not have a problem with Israel.
NPT entered into force in 1970.
The Israeli nuclear research center was built in the 50's. In the 60's they were telling to the world it's a textile factory.

I have no problem with Israeli nukes, because I have every confidence in the security of their nation, which means they won't use them. However I do wish they would now sign on to a treaty that's intended to help us not blow each other up. The same goes for India and Pakistan.

Again...

Their claim was that the enrichment was for nuclear energy, something expressly allowed and encouraged under the NPT. Given the fact that they didn't build a bomb, that they have declared how much material they have, and that every intelligence agency on the planet has said they aren't going for a bomb I don't see any wrongdoing here. Making reactor quality fuel requires first enriching it to weapons levels, and then reducing the purity.

Now, if you could prove Iran worked with NK for their bomb (something that has been speculated) you might have a case here.

a reply to: Aazadan

Israel's last resort doesn't just involve nukes aimed at their enemies, but also their allies. In their mind, that gives their allies a reason to stick close to them.

Talk is cheap. Where is the proof?

Have you looked at the amount of foreign aid they get?

The only ones giving foreign aid to Israel, is the US. So you basically saying that the Israelis threaten the Americans with the Samson option, and this is the reason that the US provides aid (in form of ammunition stockpiles) to Israel?

Or the leeway they get with Palestine?

The reason for this, IMO, is that nobody cares. Same way as nobody cares about about hundreds killed every day in Syria Iraq, or Yemen. Same way as nobody cares about what the Chinese doing to Tibetans, or the Russian doing to Chechens. Same way as nobody cares about the people killed by US drones or by militias in Africa.

Their claim was that the enrichment was for nuclear energy, something expressly allowed and encouraged under the NPT. Given the fact that they didn't build a bomb, that they have declared how much material they have, and that every intelligence agency on the planet has said they aren't going for a bomb I don't see any wrongdoing here. Making reactor quality fuel requires first enriching it to weapons levels, and then reducing the purity.

If this is true, all they had to do is to enable inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Why refuse if you don't have anything to hide?

Now, if you could prove Iran worked with NK for their bomb (something that has been speculated) you might have a case here.

I never said anything of the sort, so not even going to try.

Israel? Home of the most fundamentalist religio-fanatics on this planet?... disarm?!

That's a kekkake of tsunamic proportions! xD

-Moshe Dayan

a reply to: lostbook

If non proliferation is to be realized, every nation would have to get on board and there's a snowballs chance of that happening.

It's gonna take a nuke being fired before anyone scales back-as we know governments are reactive and not proactive.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: yuppa

A conventional war that would have brought in Russia and China as Iran's allies, and regardless of Iran's situation that would have gone nuclear. With this negotiation, if Iran attempts to build a nuclear weapon Russia and China have to join on our side with sanctions and not defending them in a war at a minimum.

Uh huh. Not really likely. China would have a issue just trying to get to the med let alone Russia won tlet them march through Its territory even if they are allies. And Russia and china will never join the US in sanctions because they gave tech to them to use by a third party(the norks)

ALso CHina dont want a nuke war,and neither does Russia because they lose even if they win. use some common sense. Logistics would hamper a russian response for weeks,also woudnt russia have to go through territories not friendly to them? it would b e weeks till they reached the Iranians. IF we didnt make a deal with the russians to Annex Iran for their help (or them staying quiet).

So Iran wants Israel to give up their nukes eh.

I can't stop laughing.

Why would they when it's been Iran funding, and supplying those rockets that have been raining down on the Isreali's.

Courtsey of them right wing neocons clinging to their guns,nukes, and religion in Iran.

Iran just wants to live in 'peace'!

RIGHT!.

Nice to see the usual crowd on the side of Iran.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well I know for a fact that that is absolute hogwash... Iran has been seeking nuclear weapons grade uranium enrichment capability...

As to the particulars of how I know that. I will keep to myself.

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden

So you have information that the Israeli intelligence service, that very much wants to prove Iran is seeking nuclear weapons doesn't have?

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Masterjaden

So you have information that the Israeli intelligence service, that very much wants to prove Iran is seeking nuclear weapons doesn't have?

Of course they have it. The same way I had it.

Jaden

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Yep. Israel should sign the treaty and/or disarm. They're probably at least as dangerous as Iran as far as trigger happy goes, and more dangerous considering they actually have nukes. For some reason they always get a pass.

Israel has had nukes for 50 years...being trigger happy and all and a threat to world security...they sure have dropped a lot of bombs in those years!

It's called "for their own security." Not once have we ever heard a statement from an Israeli leader saying "We're going to wipe Iran off the map," and yet we've heard that statement in regards to Israel numerous times. Amazing what the Israeli-haters will deny

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Masterjaden

So you have information that the Israeli intelligence service, that very much wants to prove Iran is seeking nuclear weapons doesn't have?

You do know one of the rules in Intelligence is to deny that you have something right? So the MOSSAD says they dont have evidence in craft speak it means they dont have anything tangible or that they will admit to having due to not trying to tip off th eperson or country being investigated.

a reply to: DerekJR321


The Israeli air force made a mistake yes but if we were to say that it was deliberate then every friendly fire incident involving a U.S Warplane was too.

Israel is not a friend to the US. Israel is a user. How many times have they been caught spying on us? How many times have they shown that they ONLY care about themselves? Israel having nuclear weapons makes as much sense, for that area, as Iran having nuclear weapons. There's no reason that Israel should have such imbalanced strength. It seems to only inspire other countries there to follow suit, (like Iran, hmmm….) If another country threatens Israel, we're there faster than we go to parts of our country in times of need. Ridiculous. Personally, I think if Israel would stop building their settlements in disputed territories, start dealing earnestly with the Palestinians (which means that yes, Israel would have to give up some land), and stop using their completely irrational connections to the US as leverage over the entire Middle East, everyone in that area would be better off. One loud mouthed little country with entitlement issues should not have so much influence over the US. The people who so adamantly support Israel no matter what ought to shut up and move there if they like it so much, instead of screaming their lungs out here out of some misplace sense of devotion.

a reply to: lostbook

originally posted by: TownCryer
Israel is not a friend to the US. Israel is a user. How many times have they been caught spying on us? How many times have they shown that they ONLY care about themselves? Israel having nuclear weapons makes as much sense, for that area, as Iran having nuclear weapons. There's no reason that Israel should have such imbalanced strength. It seems to only inspire other countries there to follow suit, (like Iran, hmmm….) If another country threatens Israel, we're there faster than we go to parts of our country in times of need. Ridiculous. Personally, I think if Israel would stop building their settlements in disputed territories, start dealing earnestly with the Palestinians (which means that yes, Israel would have to give up some land), and stop using their completely irrational connections to the US as leverage over the entire Middle East, everyone in that area would be better off. One loud mouthed little country with entitlement issues should not have so much influence over the US. The people who so adamantly support Israel no matter what ought to shut up and move there if they like it so much, instead of screaming their lungs out here out of some misplace sense of devotion.

a reply to: lostbook

Correction ALL COUNTRIES ARE USERS OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

a reply to: PickledOnion

if that's the case, just let the expatriated Palestinians return to Palestine (or Israel )

originally posted by: coolieno99
a reply to: PickledOnion

if that's the case, just let the expatriated Palestinians return to Palestine (or Israel )

YEah that be great...if most of them were not actually from other countries decendants. The Modern pali before this current gen were not actually from israel.

originally posted by: yuppa
You do know one of the rules in Intelligence is to deny that you have something right? So the MOSSAD says they dont have evidence in craft speak it means they dont have anything tangible or that they will admit to having due to not trying to tip off th eperson or country being investigated.

Considering that evidence of that sort would change the US and EU's negotiating positions with Iran, that would have been the time to release it.

They did not, therefore they didn't have any information of that sort.