I feel like people shouldn't react to the lion kill badly if they eat meat

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CaptainHook

Eh, it is what it is.

While I'm not ever going to be a sport hunter and prefer that people who hunt eat what they take, some people are OK with it, and it annoys me to no end when people who are going to eat their kill post pictures of it and get raked over the coals for it as if all hunting was evil. So someone shot a trophy buck? And if they eat it after taking pictures of it and save the head for their trophy wall, whose business is it of yours?

I don't get all this outrage over a lion though. It's one thing to be upset and it's whole other level to keep milking this story day after day like Cecil was a toddler who has no name and was dropped headless into the bay. Zimbabwe is in the midst of a financial crash and deep depression, and the licensed taking of a few big game animals every year is part of what finances the armed guards who shadow the young and healthy animals of the same populations so they don't get poached and ground up into Asian medicine. Each of the remaining Northern white rhinos in Africa has its own armed guard. Where do you think money has to come from?

It was lured out of a reserve and the * carcass was left behind, not even eaten. Private guides were paid, not the country of Zimbabwe. I understand what you mean about other monies to keep endangered species alive, but Cecil was not an example of that.

a reply to: CaptainHook

This is not about meat, it's about luring a protected (perhaps endangered) animal from its protected area and killing it.

a reply to: alienjuggaloCecil death is sad tho.

a reply to: InTheLight Thread is about treatment of animals, not the method of killings.

originally posted by: CaptainHook
a reply to: reldraso, you're telling me that if something is dumb/stupid it has no importance? So, if a person who has a mental disability that makes them have a lower IQ. They're not equal to anyone above that IQ?

Animals base on there life form, not there intelligence or population. You can't justify cruelty of animals because they're condemned stupid or simply 'they to feed us humans'.

So, if I killed a lion or any other animal and prolonged it death/abused with the purpose of eating the animal. It should be condemned acceptable?

No, I don;t mean that exactly.

People who are mentally disabled are 100% equal, obviously.

I don't justify cruelty to chickens, but, since they have little conception of what is happening to them, it is different.

If one prolonged the death of a chicken and tortured it for no reason, I would like to see them jailed as well. There would be something fundamentally wrong with that person.

I loved my goldfish named Colour. My daughter got him at a fair as a present for me. He lived about 8 years. He was once ill and I spent about $60 on fish antibiotics and started buying freeze dried shrimp rather than flake food. Pictures of him often on my facebook, oddly more than my 2 cats. He would come to the side of the bowl when I called his name. "Foody colour!" . It is a myth that their short term memory is minutes. He eventually died of natural causes.

Colour was a pet, though. I would imagine millions of goldfish die in fishing nets or from pollution or from not being cared for well at carnivals.

We still have to think of people , feeding them. And then animals.

originally posted by: CaptainHook
a reply to: InTheLight Thread is about treatment of animals, not the method of killings.

I follow my own conscience, desire to inject other thought processes.

a reply to: reldra I am just using a chicken as a example. Pigs however are just as smart as dogs. Now, put everything we said to a pig.

anyways people.. I bid you good night.

a reply to: CaptainHook

Sleep tight.

originally posted by: CaptainHook
a reply to: reldra I am just using a chicken as a example. Pigs however are just as smart as dogs. Now, put everything we said to a pig.

Pigs are extremely smart, as smart as dogs and very clean. Very affectionate, good with kids. It is a Western thing that dogs and cats are given a better place than pigs-- though part of it is that dogs make better sheep herders or 'watch animals'. Dogs and cats are also 'put to sleep' as there are too many in western countries and it is tabu to eat them.

I stopped eating pork years ago. However, again, it is a cash crop. It feeds people and I would call out any farm that wasn't treating them well or not giving a swift death.

I am sad for the killing of pigs, but where would they all go? Like deer?

One step at a time.

a reply to: CaptainHook

People should be mad, but they are getting mad over the wrong things and at the wrong person over the lions death.


Since you brought up farm animals it should be mentioned that over half the land that the animals are located on used to be used to raise farm animals. Since then the ranchers have converted over the land for game animals which matches the size of lands that preserves cover. More land generally means more prides.

Unfortunately, the governments are not managing things very well.

They could outlaw luring and even outlaw killing collared lions, but they haven't. Since the collars transmit a signal the safari groups with minimal equipment could easily identify collared lions, but that doesn't happen.


The only reason the hunt was deemed illegal is because Cecil was killed on a farm that didn't have a lion quota permit. Such a thing can only be blamed on expert hunter(guide) that took his client there and gave him the go ahead to shoot.

The guide has issued a statement admitting that he was in the wrong.

Cecil dying sucks, but nothing has changed to keep it from happening again. Everyone is focusing on the client(palmer) which has taken all the pressure off of the government and safari groups so they do not need to change the way they operate.

The point is...with loss of life on this planet, as it stands now...trophy hunting is a disgusting pursuit.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: CaptainHook

People should be mad, but they are getting mad over the wrong things and at the wrong person over the lions death.


Since you brought up farm animals it should be mentioned that over half the land that the animals are located on used to be used to raise farm animals. Since then the ranchers have converted over the land for game animals which matches the size of lands that preserves cover. More land generally means more prides.

Unfortunately, the governments are not managing things very well.

They could outlaw luring and even outlaw killing collared lions, but they haven't. Since the collars transmit a signal the safari groups with minimal equipment could easily identify collared lions, but that doesn't happen.


The only reason the hunt was deemed illegal is because Cecil was killed on a farm that didn't have a lion quota permit. Such a thing can only be blamed on expert hunter(guide) that took his client there and gave him the go ahead to shoot.

The guide has issued a statement admitting that he was in the wrong.

Cecil dying sucks, but nothing has changed to keep it from happening again. Everyone is focusing on the client(palmer) which has taken all the pressure off of the government and safari groups so they do not need to change the way they operate.

I think Palmer knew...wasn't his first time breaking the law. He killed a black bear in Wisconsin and was fined $3,000.
It is against the law there to 'lure animals out of a reserve', especially covering it up by trying to destroy their GPS collar after.

Don't try to say the dentist didn't know this was wrong.

The reserve found the lion;s carcass by tracking the GPS.

You must not understand the entire events.


Of course it was against the law there, I think Zimbabwe wants to extradite.

a reply to: CaptainHook

In another week, someone will shoot a lion wearing a confederate flag while the animal was stopped with it's paws up saying, "Don't shoot".

Riots will ensue.

Police will be blamed.

And a new gun law will be written as a result.

But this will blow over quickly. Just like an ethics investigation in the senate.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CaptainHook

In another week, someone will shoot a lion wearing a confederate flag while the animal was stopped with it's paws up saying, "Don't shoot".

Riots will ensue.

Police will be blamed.

And a new gun law will be written as a result.

But this will blow over quickly. Just like an ethics investigation in the senate.

You have to be kidding me? Lightening the mood is one thing, but this is much too garbled.

a reply to: reldra

I think Palmer knew

We are all entitled to an opinion.

It is against the law there to 'lure animals out of a reserve'

Actually no, it isn't.

especially covering it up by trying to destroy their GPS collar after.

Sorry, but that isn't illegal either. It isn't even illegal to kill a lion with a GPS collar.

In fact the guide has already admitted he was the one who removed the collar and either destroyed it and put it in a tree or just put it in a tree.

Don't try to say the dentist didn't know this was wrong.

Lionaid the conservation group there has already said he shouldn't have any reason to know the regulations there. That's what guides are hired for.

edit to add

Of course it was against the law there, I think Zimbabwe wants to extradite.

According to an article in Routers they want to extradite. EXCEPT that same article says.

In Washington, a Zimbabwean diplomat said the embassy was not aware that extradition proceedings had been initiated by his government. Richard Chibuwe, deputy chief of the mission, said Zimbabwe takes the case very seriously and noted that two Zimbabwean men face court proceedings for helping Palmer.

On Wednesday, a Zimbabwean court charged local professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst with failing to prevent Palmer from unlawfully killing Cecil. reuters

Every article that has re-printed the claim that they want to extradite sources Routers as their source.

a reply to: CaptainHook

The great thing about a human being is that they can avoid the killing of another living thing to a great extent. Going out of one's way to do so, is either a matter of necessity, or vanity.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: reldra

I think Palmer knew

We are all entitled to an opinion.

It is against the law there to 'lure animals out of a reserve'

Actually no, it isn't.

especially covering it up by trying to destroy their GPS collar after.

Sorry, but that isn't illegal either. It isn't even illegal to kill a lion with a GPS collar.

In fact the guide has already admitted he was the one who removed the collar and either destroyed it and put it in a tree or just put it in a tree.

Don't try to say the dentist didn't know this was wrong.

Lionaid the conservation group there has already said he shouldn't have any reason to know the regulations there. That's what guides are hired for.

Ok, prove it.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CaptainHook

In another week, someone will shoot a lion wearing a confederate flag while the animal was stopped with it's paws up saying, "Don't shoot".

Riots will ensue.

Police will be blamed.

And a new gun law will be written as a result.

But this will blow over quickly. Just like an ethics investigation in the senate.

You have to be kidding me? Lightening the mood is one thing, but this is much too garbled.

Okay, let me put it this way.

I'll wager that by the end of August, some other event will take place to "outrage" the masses and keep us all occupied.

a reply to: Grimpachi

There is a law as Source

2 Zimbabweans were charged and granted bail in the case.