Planned Parenthood website hacked

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You do know that this so called hack is an inside job right?

a reply to: thesaneone

No I don't, and I'm interested to know how you would know that.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know its been edited and I hope the rest of the video will be released so we can all see the truth behind them. To me it seems you judging them to be false, without seeing the whole thing. What if what they end up being true? Will you change your position on it? Or are you equally as passionate about pro choice, as those on the other side of the fence are pro life?

If it turns out to be true then of course I would change my tune. But I HAVE looked into these videos, plus the originating source and how the videos were obtained makes the claims dubious at best. Overlooking these things when analyzing the video is just being willfully ignorant. It's obvious that these videos are manufactured propaganda designed to rile up the pro-life crowd, and it's working wonderfully. For now. Though legal backlash is starting against Center for Medical Progress. It is starting to look likely that these assholes will end up in jail for releasing those videos.

Are you involved on some level with PP? Do you know something we dont know?

I know that believing videos from a biased source posted on the internet is one of the more idiotic things you could do. If these videos were obtained legally and REALLY showed wrongdoing, all that would be needed would be ONE video, and it should be released to the POLICE for their viewing so they can look for their own evidence and then present a case in a court of law. Releasing it on the internet is just showing that the organization was banking on the court of public opinion to judge PP without properly vetting the source material.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That VERY LEGAL thing was not voted on by "we the people". Whoever signed this VERY LEGAL thing into approval needs to be known to us, shown to us, and held accountable for the atrocities against innocent human beings. These are, IMO, CRIMES.

Also, I wonder how those mothers now feel, knowing their babies ended up as pieces and sold by the value of their little organs...?

It was signed into law. Medical facilities operate under this law. PP operates under this law. Hospitals operate under this law. If the law changes for PP it would change for hospitals, no more medical research with human tissue of any kind. Be my guest and attempt to change the law.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That VERY LEGAL thing was not voted on by "we the people". Whoever signed this VERY LEGAL thing into approval needs to be known to us, shown to us, and held accountable for the atrocities against innocent human beings. These are, IMO, CRIMES.

Also, I wonder how those mothers now feel, knowing their babies ended up as pieces and sold by the value of their little organs...?

On another thread Krazy said that the mothers all signed consent forms
and were fully informed .....
but were the women fully informed, really fully informed,
that their "blobs of tissue" would be dissected
and their kidneys, brains, etc
sold rather than donated to research. Hmmmmm

The guttenmacher institute, which is a totally neutral, if not slightly liberal institute
www.guttmacher.org...

said that out of the 1 million abortions annually

a small percentage (30% or a little more than 25,000 to repeat twenty five thousand, annually) were blobs over 16 weeks

not human for sure, and only blobs of tissue, surely people are over reacting

another wild over reaction is to the very small percentage (1.5% or a little more than 9,000 to repeat nine thousand, annually)
were blobs over 24 weeks old.

this is not a human at all or a person at all, it is "just fetal tissue",
and definitely people are over reacting.

I am not surprised at all at the backlash
against the harvesting for tissue
as is done by PP
for sale on the research marketplace

When your grown up loved one dies and the body or organs are donated to science, do they go into great detail with you about how this is done in the lab? That they will collect a fee when the research company comes for the body? They could charge you to cover their costs, but it is a lot nicer to charge the research company.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: grandmakdw
On another thread Krazy said that the mothers all signed consent forms
and were fully informed .....
but were the women fully informed, really fully informed,
that their "blobs of tissue" would be dissected
and their kidneys, brains, etc
sold rather than donated to research. Hmmmmm

Oh another appeal to emotion fallacy post from grandmakdw that ignores any issues and is entirely intended to pull on one's heartstrings to illicit an irrational response to a problem. Hmmmmm

If you call quoting statistics from a liberal think tank ignoring issues, well sorry, but these are unemotional statistics and not even from a conservative source, but rather a liberal source. 25,000 fetus' aborted between week 16-20 annually, after they look fully like a real person. 9,000 babies aborted between week 24-40 annually in the US, after the age of probable survival outside the womb as a real human being. If those cold hearted statistics upset people and make them feel emotional, it is not my responsibility.

If you call posting a picture of a 16 week old fetus 3D sonogram entirely emotional. Well that is from the person who is viewing it's perspective. The intention was to show people what a "blob of tissue" looks like at 16 weeks with a fetus that is in no danger whatsoever of being aborted. That is unemotional, how a person feels when viewing it is up to them, anyone is quite free to see it as a blob of tissue as many on this site claim it is.

If you call posting a picture of a live and born 23 week old fetus who is alive and has it's eyes open. Well if a person viewing it feels emotional, that is their perspective. The intention was to show people what "fetal tissue" actually looks like with a picture of fetal tissue outside of the womb and alive. The picture itself is unemotional, how a person feels when viewing it is up to them, anyone is quite free to perceive it as "fetal tissue" ready for harvest of organs if they want to.

These pictures are only emotional if one chooses to see them that way. To me they are scientific evidence of exactly what is a "blob of fetal tissue". These pictures are simply what many refer to as "fetal tissue", they are real and if they make someone uncomfortable, that is not my problem, it is the viewers problem if they don't see it as an objective picture of actual "fetal tissue".

I am not ignoring the issue at all, I am presenting the issue using real, actual photos of fetal tissue.
I am addressing the issue with real statistics from a fairly liberal source.
If it makes people uncomfortable, that is their problem, not mine. If one is firmly resolved that 16-40 weeks is simply fetal tissue that can be harvested, then that is how they should view the actual photos of the fetal tissue.

That the issue makes people angry enough to try and hack a website, is quite understandable.

That the videos of real people saying what they have said and in context in the videos,
make people "disturbed" as Hillary has said, is quite understandable.

Even if many of you here are in denial and don't think that fetal tissue being dismembered alive should disturb anyone and certainly not enough to hack a website over, that is your right to see the fetal tissue as simply something to harvest for research.

Anyone viewing these pictures is quite free to see them only
as fetal tissue ready for harvest of organs for research
if that is how you choose to see them personally.

An FYI for those who don't read the entire thread, here are the pictures we are referring to:

a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm not going to debate your appeal to emotion fallacy (even if you DO post it again) because I just don't care about those statistics. They are irrelevant to the discussion at hand and are designed to get someone emotional and ignore the ACTUAL facts that are relevant to the issue at hand.

What IS and ISN'T a human isn't the topic at hand here. It is Planned Parenthood. Your entire point is just one big distraction.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That VERY LEGAL thing was not voted on by "we the people". Whoever signed this VERY LEGAL thing into approval needs to be known to us, shown to us, and held accountable for the atrocities against innocent human beings. These are, IMO, CRIMES.

Also, I wonder how those mothers now feel, knowing their babies ended up as pieces and sold by the value of their little organs...?

On another thread Krazy said that the mothers all signed consent forms
and were fully informed .....
but were the women fully informed, really fully informed,
that their "blobs of tissue" would be dissected
and their kidneys, brains, etc
sold rather than donated to research. Hmmmmm

The guttenmacher institute, which is a totally neutral, if not slightly liberal institute
www.guttmacher.org...

said that out of the 1 million abortions annually

a small percentage (30% or a little more than 25,000 to repeat twenty five thousand, annually) were blobs over 16 weeks

not human for sure, and only blobs of tissue, surely people are over reacting

another wild over reaction is to the very small percentage (1.5% or a little more than 9,000 to repeat nine thousand, annually)
were blobs over 24 weeks old.

this is not a human at all or a person at all, it is "just fetal tissue",
and definitely people are over reacting.

I am not surprised at all at the backlash
against the harvesting for tissue
as is done by PP
for sale on the research marketplace

When your grown up loved one dies and the body or organs are donated to science, do they go into great detail with you about how this is done in the lab? That they will collect a fee when the research company comes for the body? They could charge you to cover their costs, but it is a lot nicer to charge the research company.

They should tell loved ones that the organ brokers are charging upwards of $10,000 to "donate" just one of the organs.

The organ brokers make a great deal of money off of "donated" organs. Much much more than PP makes, and they should also be legally bound to disclose the amount of money that will be collected by the brokers for the "donations"

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm not going to debate your appeal to emotion fallacy (even if you DO post it again) because I just don't care about those statistics. They are irrelevant to the discussion at hand and are designed to get someone emotional and ignore the ACTUAL facts that are relevant to the issue at hand.

What IS and ISN'T a human isn't the topic at hand here. It is Planned Parenthood. Your entire point is just one big distraction.

What is and isn't a human is at the very core of the topic at hand.

People are angry and hacking the website,
for only one reason,
they consider the fetal tissue,
to be actual human beings.
That is the one and only reason they hacked the website.

The "distraction" is the core reason for the uproar
over harvesting the blobs of tissue seen in the videos.
(nearly 30,000 total each year look exactly like these pictures)

The "distraction" is the one and only reason the website was hacked.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
What is and isn't a human is at the very core of the topic at hand.

No it isn't. What's at the core of the topic is if PP violated any laws as they have been accused of. And THIS particular topic is about PP's website being hacked.

People are angry and hacking the website,
for only one reason,
they consider the fetal tissue,
to be actual human beings.
That is the one and only reason they hacked the website.

The hacked the website because they are idiots who let their emotions on the issue get the better of them so they act out.

The "distraction" is the core reason for the uproar
over harvesting the blobs of tissue seen in the videos.
(nearly 30,000 total each year look exactly like these pictures)

The "distraction" is the one and only reason the website was hacked.

*eyeroll*

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Krazy, we may not have seen all there is to see in the Videos, and Im sure the worst of the worst was what was shown, however the little bits we have seen are disturbing. But, it seems to me that those who were pro choice before are defending PP. Those who are pro life are still in the other camp.

Those who believe this isnt a human life and can detach from seeing a plate of chopped up fetus as a once viable life, are not going to react to it the same, as a person who values human life. Death is Death, Respect for the Dead is another thing. You see a plate of tissue, but others see a chopped up baby.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Krazy, we may not have seen all there is to see in the Videos, and Im sure the worst of the worst was what was shown, however the little bits we have seen are disturbing. But, it seems to me that those who were pro choice before are defending PP. Those who are pro life are still in the other camp.

You are sure of this? What makes you so sure? Why aren't you taking into account the rebuttals from PP saying that these allegations are false and that the videos have been edited to make it APPEAR that PP violated the law? After all we ARE talking about videos originating from a VERY biased anti-abortion source. I don't know about you, but MY college professors told me that the BEST evidence is the evidence that originates from non-biased sources and to NOT trust any evidence from clearly biased sources.

Those who believe this isnt a human life and can detach from seeing a plate of chopped up fetus as a once viable life, are not going to react to it the same, as a person who values human life. Death is Death, Respect for the Dead is another thing. You see a plate of tissue, but others see a chopped up baby.

And distorting evidence to make it appear like a crime was committed has no baring on this whatsoever? We just have to look at this COMPLETELY from an emotional aspect?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I dont think you are going to get people who see this as a chopped up baby to overcome their emotions about it. They will think with their heart not their brain. Regardless of your efforts you are not going to change their minds. I would defend my children and grandchildren as well as my neighbors kids (who I love as my own) with my dying breath. Others look at a plate of human remains and at the very least are disgusted by the lack of respect for a once viable life.

Even if what has been shown is a complete lie, and PP operated fully within the law, people are still going to see what they want to see.

I dont think people in general are looking at the legality of PP's actions, they are making a moral judgment on just how ethical the practice is, based on the disturbing footage that has thus far been made available. Its been put in our noses, and a lot of people's moral compass is going off the charts. Besides the money issue involved, they are still seeing a disrespected chopped up baby. And I think that is what is disturbing for most people who oppose this.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I dont think you are going to get people who see this as a chopped up baby to overcome their emotions about it. They will think with their heart not their brain. Regardless of your efforts you are not going to change their minds. I would defend my children and grandchildren as well as my neighbors kids (who I love as my own) with my dying breath. Others look at a plate of human remains and at the very least are disgusted by the lack of respect for a once viable life.

AND that is why these videos are deceptive, they are SPECIFICALLY designed to appeal to people's emotions and illicit a negative response before thinking about it logically.

Even if what has been shown is a complete lie, and PP operated fully within the law, people are still going to see what they want to see.

Trust me. I know... I'm still trying to tell climate change deniers that climategate was also a manufactured scandal. This will just be another one that I'm destined to debunk on this website for months and years on end.

I dont think people in general are looking at the legality of PP's actions, they are making a moral judgment on just how ethical the practice is, based on the disturbing footage that has thus far been made available. Its been put in our noses, and a lot of people's moral compass is going off the charts. Besides the money issue involved, they are still seeing a disrespected chopped up baby. And I think that is what is disturbing for most people who oppose this.

No, they are DEFINITELY looking at the legality of PP's actions? Have you been reading the threads about this? That's all they are talking about. That selling aborted baby parts is illegal.

This is an emotional argument, I am not in a court of law. It can be argued at an emotional level.

krazyshot the lack of emotion would make me a narcissist. or psycho

You dont choose if I want to make this an emotional argument or who can or cant.

Stop being a dictator

Climate change deniers or man made climate change deniers, wow you like to hide in the dark

Climate change is an emotional argument that you readily try and pull heart strings on when it suits your purpose.

a reply to: NerdGoddess

So does that mean you can donate his tissue right now? You know post-partum abortion?

As a mother, you should know he was never YOUR body to do with as you please just like he isn't now.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You honestly fell for this made up hacking story? Wow...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If they left a message like that on their site, it doesn't look very hacked to me.

a reply to: ketsuko

The point is, if my son were not alive, it is none of your business what I choose to do with his body, donating to science or not.

-Alee

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I would bet a large sum of money that the hacking is related to the same group that produced the videos. If your quote is accurate and that it also happened in conjunction with members of Congress to facilitate it... we're going to be looking at several prison sentences going down here, it would turn out to be a much bigger deal than the IRS targeting.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Then where is the official investigation into PP? Why is there no push from the pro-lifers to actually bring criminal proceedings against PP? Instead the right is pushing to just defund PP without any actual investigation. In fact, they are SO gung-ho about this, that they are fast tracking the bill so it can be voted on before Congress leaves on August 1st (that's this Saturday). And NONE of that sounds the LEAST bit shady to you?

Well, that explains the question I had about the timing of this. I guess I should have figured out a funding vote was coming up. Pretty low tactic on their end.