Planned Parenthood is Not Selling Baby Parts, You @!#$ing Idiots

I don't really see how this young lady calling people " f-ing idiots " is helpful to the discussion....my guess is she doesn't have children. Any reasonable person with a heart , even if your " Pro-Choice " wouldn't want abortions to have no restrictions. Birth control, "the morning after pill" and adoption are certainly better options then abortions...and I personally don't think we can or should dismiss the fact that , that "kidney bean" sized fetus is very much a baby to the parents that welcome the news they are pregnant.

However, having said that....at the end of the day deciding to have an abortion should be up to the woman and her doctor. If the aborted fetus can help to further medical research and advances science is that immoral ?

originally posted by: westcoast

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: olddognewtricks

But it isn't human... It has the POTENTIAL to be human, but it isn't human yet. Do you call a seed a tree?

Did you seriously just compare a living, growing baby with a beating heart to a SEED?

*facepalm*

What's the difference? They are potential living things that are fertilized and will grow into a living being with the right environment, but won't if taken outside that environment.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

"A woman and her doctor" I suppose the outcome will depend on who that doctor is then huh? Will she get some of the truth, or all the truth? planned parenthood doctors certainly have a bias, don't ya think?

Another doctor, who's actually concerned about the woman's health would tell her ALL the facts about birth control, morning after pills and how abortion may effect her long term. A doctor who actually cared about a woman would inform her about the fact that the pills are poison, cause cancer, can make her infertile, and are abortifacients themeselves. They kill fertilized eggs. They kill people.

A good doctor would tell her all about the long term ramifications if she has an abortion; An increased chance of many forms of cancer, infertility, suicide, alcoholism, depression, etc. the list is very long.

I'd bet money, a woman who walks into planned parenthood gets NONE of that information. Yet, they want to say they're looking out for women's health...what a joke.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, if a living organism is taken out of its natural environment and then dies, then it's ok? It didn't matter anyway, cuz it can't survive on its' own, therefore it's not human.

Why can't I toss my two year old out into the snow and slam the door shut? It's my choice. I don't want the little leech any more. I wonder how long that little bundle of cells will survive out there.

a reply to: Ignatian
I'm not gonna comment on the quality of planned parenthood doctors. I'll just say that provided me with more than enough information to make an informed decision regarding my reproductive needs, and I never felt pressured by them as to what I should do.


But, well, those good doctors you are talking about usually don't operate on a sliding scale and give free healthcare to anyone when there's minimal income coming in. and contrary to what many would like to have everyone believe, obamacare is a crap law that doesn't make healthcare cheap, it just mandates everyone have insurance, of which it is failing in that regard...

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, if a living organism is taken out of its natural environment and then dies, then it's ok? It didn't matter anyway, cuz it can't survive on its' own, therefore it's not human.

Why can't I toss my two year old out into the snow and slam the door shut? It's my choice. I don't want the little leech any more. I wonder how long that little bundle of cells will survive out there.

Well I'm only talking about at the most a fetus. That's why I compared it to a seed. Taking it to an extreme as you did is a slippery slope fallacy.

a reply to: dawnstar

There are 6000 other facilities in the USA that offer, for free, the exact same thing as planned parenthood, the only exception being they're looking out for both mother and unborn child...they're not in the business of selling off the "Byproducts." They actually care about women.

Did planned parenthood tell you the whole truth about birth control pills? Thats theyre carcinogens, etc? About the tragic longterm outcomes of abortion? No way

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You think my example is extreme? I'm using your own definition. By your definition, a 2 yr old is not human. It's your definition of what is human that is the slippery slope.

a reply to: Ignatian

you have a heart??
really, you could do it, I've seen it done, or close to it at least. there was a family that lived a few doors down from us in NY, every night all the neighborhood would gather in their yard and party half the night in the summer, drink beer, loud music and all. well, they had a little girl who would show up in the middle of winter at the bus stop with just a light sweater on, she didn't have a coat. for some reason, her brothers alway did though. this went on for at least a month and it gets danged cold in NY. but well, they had money out the arse to buy beer so what can I say.... we were trying to live on $30 a week in groceries, too bad for the little girl but if they and their friends could have all put in the money they were spending on beer every night, well they probably could have bought her a really nice coat!
but, I'm sure that that family was reported to social services on more than one occassion, and at the time, they had social workers in the schools, and I'm sure that they were noticing that girl showing up in school freezing cold.
but it took at least a month for that girl to have a coat. which I think my kid's only cost me something like $5 at the salvation army.

a reply to: dawnstar

Stupid neighbors! They shoulda just killed her before she was born, that way, more beer for everyone!!

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You think my example is extreme? I'm using your own definition. By your definition, a 2 yr old is not human. It's your definition of what is human that is the slippery slope.

No, that isn't my definition. A baby is an already born human, it would be the equivalent of a sprouted seed. Do you not know how biology works?

a reply to: Ignatian
"They shouldn't have had the baby if they didn't want the baby!!" Danged women should have just crossed her legs and kept that kid in her tummy where it could stay nice and warm!

a reply to: Ignatian
how do you know that the doctors at these other clinics are better than those at planned parenthood and how do you know that they don't have the same type of arrangements with stem express as planned parenthood does...
heck they might even be more willing to accommodate stemexpress than planned parenthood is. and why is it that stemexpress isn't getting more heat on this, they are getting basically free resources (pay just shipping and handling) and after a little bit of processing on their part, they ARE MAKING A PROFIT selling their product to research firms.

a reply to: Char-Lee

Thank you!

It is the highest honor in this life to be considered a "problem."

I will strive to continue to be a big, big problem.

a reply to: Ignatian

IDK what the answers are....these are very personal decisions that we can only hope are made with the proper guidance and information from the doctors involved. Like I said in my previous post, I don't think most reasonable people want abortions without some kind of restrictions on how developed the fetus can be....which goes into the heart of this debate.....at what point in the development of a human fetus does it become a "baby" ?

I think what repulses people is that if aborted fetus's are developed enough that they can harvest body parts from them, should that have taken the option of abortion off the table to begin with ? I'm not prepared to judge others who face this decision , often times for difficult reasons we don't understand. I think abortions are tragic and I agree can cause long term trauma to the mothers.

If aborted " tissue " is being used for medical research the highest standards of Integrity need to be in place, and no one should be making a profit associated with PP or any other abortion provider.....especially one's that are publicly funded. If that tissue is of value to further modern medicine it should be made available to non-profit research facilities for the betterment of all mankind....not to corporations for profit.

originally posted by: Ignatian


"A woman and her doctor" I suppose the outcome will depend on who that doctor is then huh? Will she get some of the truth, or all the truth? planned parenthood doctors certainly have a bias, don't ya think?

Are you a regular at PP to be able to make such statements?? other

wise its just hear say on your part'

Another doctor, who's actually concerned about the woman's health would tell her ALL the facts about birth control, morning after pills and how abortion may effect her long term. A doctor who actually cared about a woman would inform her about the fact that the pills are poison, cause cancer, can make her infertile, and are abortifacients themeselves. They kill fertilized eggs. They kill people.

Unless you personally have consulted one of those doctors you cant say

whether or not he hasn't told her ALL *the facts.* There are many things

that are poison taken in incorrect doses, however the dosage given is

prescribed to the patient and has been tested over time and considered

safe.

I think your a bit hysterically over the top on that it causes infertility....

From your friend brandiwine's post >>>>

I've got an acquaintance that last I knew was up to six (abortions)

LOL!!! doesn't appear to of effected her fertility??

A good doctor would tell her all about the long term ramifications if she has an abortion; An increased chance of many forms of cancer, infertility, suicide, alcoholism, depression, etc. the list is very long.

You don't have to have an abortion to get any one of those conditions.

In fact those conditions can and do effect many men too!!

I'd bet money, a woman who walks into planned parenthood gets NONE of that information. Yet, they want to say they're looking out for women's health...what a joke.

Got any evidence to support that .... or is it just more of your assumptions.

a reply to: eletheia

Why do you insist on seeing my sources? For just a moment, make the assumption that what I said is true (and it is). If my assumptions are true, would that give you pause to maybe think a little differently about the abortion procedure, and the long term damage it can do to a woman? Don't women matter?

Do you think abortion is "disturbing" in ANY way? Why is that?

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Char-Lee

No, really, lead me...explain your position.

Why is someone with a lot of kids with little money "a problem"?

What's this problem, that I am so clueless about?

When I consider my parents and grandparents coming through the depression and making it, and raising families, great generation of hardy people, hardships and hard work can build character.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Really? You think that none of your ancestors had abortions during the Great Depression?

Case studies of the "professional abortionists" and their practices in the 1930s provide a unique opportunity to analyze the experiences of the tens of thousands of women who went to physician-abortionists. Many women had abortions in a setting nearly identical to the doctors' offices where they received other medical care. These doctors specialized in a single procedure, abortion. They used standard medical procedures to perform safe abortions routinely and ran what may be called abortion clinics. Furthermore, abortion specialists were an integral part of regular medicine, as the network of physicians who referred patients to these physician-abortionists demonstrates. The physician-abortionists represent the expansion of abortion during the Depression decade.

The Depression years make vivid the relationship between economics and reproduction. Women had abortions on a massive scale. Married women with children found it impossible to bear the expense of another, and unmarried women could not afford to marry. As young working-class women and men put off marriage during the Depression to support their families or to save money for a wedding, marriage rates fell drastically. Yet while they waited to wed, couples engaged in sexual relations, and women became pregnant. Many had abortions.

During the Depression, married women were routinely fired on the assumption that jobs belonged to men and that women had husbands who supported them. Discrimination against married women forced single women to delay marriage and have abortions in order to keep their jobs. One such woman was a young teacher whose fiancé was unemployed. As her daughter recalled fifty years later, "She got pregnant. What were her choices? Marry, lose her job, and bring a child into a family with no means of support? Not marry, lose her job and reputation, and put the baby up for adoption or keep it?" As this scenario makes clear, she had no "choice." Furthermore, it points to the limitations of the rhetoric of "choice" in reproduction; social forces condition women's reproductive options. The teacher's boyfriend found a local physician who helped her in his office; then she went to a hotel to miscarry. Two years later she married a different man, who had a job, and eventually bore seven children.
publishing.cdlib.org...

Ah yes! The Good ole days!

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: eletheia

Why do you insist on seeing my sources? For just a moment, make the assumption that what I said is true (and it is). If my assumptions are true, would that give you pause to maybe think a little differently about the abortion procedure, and the long term damage it can do to a woman? Don't women matter?

Do you think abortion is "disturbing" in ANY way? Why is that?

You seem reluctant to provide any actual factual evidence....only assumptions?

Could it be that you don't have anything concrete to go on....only hearsay?

Because what goes on between a doctor and his patient is not for public

consumption You know ..... something called *patient confidentiality*


I personally know of a dozen women who have not suffered from any

long term effects after having a termination. By the time a woman gets to a

clinic she has already made up her mind... other wise she would not be

there.

No woman is dragged screaming and kicking into an abortion clinic, she goes

there entirely of her OWN free will often pushing through a wall of

militant, aggressive anti abortion stalwarts to do so.


You obviously have an agenda, and believe that women are unintelligent,

stupid, have no idea what they are doing, and incapable of taking ANY

decision regarding their own sexual health and well being.


Today there is something called *FREEDOM OF CHOICE*... The freedom

to do, the freedom not to do. So at least have the decency to

allow others with a different view point to yours to do as they want without

trying to patronise them.


I have been around before there was FREEDOM OF CHOICE and I can tell you

which is one is better.