'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours

originally posted by: JadeStar
I'm just going to put this right here, courtesy of the nice people i met at NASA Ames:

Wow...thank you.

That was quite interesting...a magneto hydrodynamic drive using the quantum vacuum...

Q-drive stuff starts around 30 min...

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: JadeStar
I'm just going to put this right here, courtesy of the nice people i met at NASA Ames:

Wow...thank you.

That was quite interesting...a magneto hydrodynamic drive using the quantum vacuum...

Q-drive stuff starts around 30 min...

I feel that by the time I am a senior citizen in 45 years we will already have sent an interstellar probe on the way to some nearby solar system either by crazy fast means or a slower (but still 100-1000x faster than New Horizons) "traditional" means.

a reply to: hellobruce

You do what most people do, you quote things out of context and without the entire quote. It says:

"Our test campaign cannot confirm or refute the claims of the EM Drive but intends to independently assess possible side-effects in the measurements methods used so far," said Prof Tajmar.

"Nevertheless, we do observe thrust close to the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena."

Of course you only quoted the first part which is just dishonest.

What this is simply saying is that they observe thrust close to actual predictions but they can't confirm if the reason for this thrust is the same reason made by those who proposed the EM Drive.

So yes, they CONFIRMED that a thrust occurs close to actual predictions but they did't confirm the source of this thrust. This is just GOOD SCIENCE.

Finally, the reason you get this language is because EM Drives are hotly debated. Usually when observe evidence that closely matches the prediction of a theory that's confirmation of the theory.

It doesn't mean that you don't have to keep testing the theory though. It's like the Higgs. This is what they said:

Following this study, we now have confirmation that this is the Higgs boson as predicted by the Standard Model of particle physics. It sits in the mass-energy region of 125 GeV, has no spin, and it can decay into a variety of lighter particles (pairs of photons, fermions, etc.) This means that we can say with some certainty that the Higgs boson is the particle that gives mass to… well, everything. “Our findings confirm the presence of the Standard Model Boson,” says Marcus Klute of the CMS Collaboration. “Establishing a property of the Standard Model is big news itself.”

This is what's said about the EM drive:

"Nevertheless, we do observe thrust close to the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena."

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS!

I agree, there needs to be caution but not stick your head in the sand and blindly disagree caution. If this was a study on Hawking Radiation you would see headlines that say HAWKING RADIATION CONFIRMED AS PREDICTED.

a reply to: neoholographic

But there's one very large problem as the authors mention.

The apparent thrust stays on even after the microwaves are turned off, and appears to track the thermal properties.

What's up with that?

Unfortunately this seriously suggests to me that the mechanism of the observations isn't any proposed new physics (and hence extrapolating scale up based on those mechanisms is far too premature), but some kind of thermal radiation/radiometer type of effect, which isn't that interesting. The longstanding Pioneer anomaly was eventually resolved by a detailed simulation of thermal properties.

Firstly Shawyer's original explanation is clearly bunk and based on mistakes in classical E&M. The NASA guys don't buy it either.

The 'thrusting against quantum vacuum' or something is also theoretically problematic, but even if you accept it, how would it work with the microwaves turned off? Why does it stay there but go away slower just as the device cools off?

a reply to: neoholographic

They said this is solar powered ... is this a perpetual motion drive that only needs the solar energy to get the reaction started? Otherwise, how are they talking about traveling across interstellar space with it?

originally posted by: neoholographic
Of course you only quoted the first part which is just dishonest.

Funny how you left out the bit that shows it still works when the power is disconnected... why was that?

originally posted by: JadeStar
I feel that by the time I am a senior citizen in 45 years we will already have sent an interstellar probe on the way to some nearby solar system either by crazy fast means or a slower (but still 100-1000x faster than New Horizons) "traditional" means.

You are truly fortunate.

At almost 70 I prolly don't have 45 years, but...science and technology has it's own sort of acceleration, so there is a fair probability...

Great. NASA "discovers" the closest habitable planet and all of a sudden a way to travel there in a lifetime is "discovered". It's all a web of lies and I regret to tell you that EM drives have been viable since the 80's it's just finally the assholes found a way to control, tax, and manufacture the idea so they decided not to squash the thousandth research team to tackle the idea.

a reply to: hellobruce

Oh, but he also held back the information about his little sister's 1st sleepover when he farted in Juliana's face.

And let's not forget the time you were making hash brownies (not hash browns, you know what I mean ) and you spilled the batter all over the floor, scraped it up, and continued cooking. Classic bruce!

Anyways, what I'm getting at here is people have a tendency to ignore the information that doesn't presently serve them.

Why has the pianoasis guy dropped into this argument?" you wonder "I'm bored and perplexed by your squabbling" larks pianoasis as he gallops gayly into the gregarious green grape groves.

Alpha Centauri, 100 years. Build a big ship. Bring families along. Mate. I'll volunteer to be the guy who impregnates all the women.

Find a habitable planet. Start a new civilization.

a reply to: hellobruce

Again, it's funny how this guy has become an idiot who doesn't account for this vs. the OBSERVED RESULTS that match closely to those predicted. Here's more:

"Additional tests need to be carried out to study the magnetic interaction of the power feeding lines used for the liquid metal contacts," conclude the researchers. "Nevertheless, we do observe thrusts close to the magnitude of the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena. Next steps include better magnetic shielding, further vacuum tests and improved EMDrive models with higher Q factors and electronics that allow tuning for optimal operation."

The key hear:

"Nevertheless, we do observe thrusts close to the magnitude of the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena.

Many of these things are accounted for after ELIMINATING POSSIBLE ERROR SOURCES.

Are we just talking about any idiot who will not account for these things?

The announcement will add momentum to developing a working EMDrive, as Tajmar is considered an ideal candidate to test the controversial system due to his 'well-equipped lab and a strong background in tracking experimental error,' according to Wired.

STRONG BACKGROUND IN TRACKING EXPERIMENTAL ERROR!

he is cautious in his approach but he doesn't have a STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND MENTALITY. I'm glad he's looking into these areas vs. some people who are simply blinded by belief and say THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE SO STOP THINKING.

Also, Robert Shawyer has a peer reviewed paper accepted on the EM Drive.

The creator of a controversial electromagnetic space propulsion technology called EmDrive has finally had a paper peer reviewed and accepted by the International Academy of Astronautics (IAA).

The paper, Second Generation EmDrive Propulsion Applied To SSTO Launcher And Interstellar Probe, by British scientist Roger Shawyer was published in the journal Acta Astronautica and made available online on 10 July.

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS!

The head in the sand "this can't be true crowd" needs to let the scientific process work itself out and I'm just glad there's open minded Scientist who will seriously examine these things.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: hellobruce

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS!

The head in the sand "this can't be true crowd" needs to let the scientific process work itself out and I'm just glad there's open minded Scientist who will seriously examine these things.

Science also works because we tend to be cautious rather than overly excited making premature announcements based on little data. That's what separates science from pseudoscience.

a reply to: JadeStar

I feel that by the time I am a senior citizen in 45 years we will already have sent an interstellar probe on the way to some nearby solar

Unless we can develop an engine that can gain traction against spacetime itself its going to take a herculean effort to send a probe to nearby stars. Personally I'd be happy to see a overwhelmingly large telescope (OWL) built on the far side of the moon, so we can spectroscopically analyse earth-size planets.

link

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: hellobruce

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS!

The head in the sand "this can't be true crowd" needs to let the scientific process work itself out and I'm just glad there's open minded Scientist who will seriously examine these things.

Science also works because we tend to be cautious rather than overly excited making premature announcements based on little data. That's what separates science from pseudoscience.

That's not the case.

First off, the Scientist conducting these studies is very cautious. He's just reporting the evidence and the discussion is how EM Drives might change things if more testing holds up. He said:

"Additional tests need to be carried out to study the magnetic interaction of the power feeding lines used for the liquid metal contacts," conclude the researchers. "Nevertheless, we do observe thrusts close to the magnitude of the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena. Next steps include better magnetic shielding, further vacuum tests and improved EMDrive models with higher Q factors and electronics that allow tuning for optimal operation."

Again, this has nothing to do with pseudoscience.

Secondly, Scientist do jump the gun on things and that doesn't make it pseudoscience. I personally think people throw around Science like it's this infallible, rigid thing when it's not.

I remember when Scientist jumped the gun and said they detected gravity waves at the BICEP2 telescope and they were wrong. This wasn't pseudoscience it's just what happens during the scientific process.

Again, the Scientist observed a thrust close to the magnitude of predictions after eliminating possible error sources and this warrants looking further into this phenomena. There's NOTHING pseudoscience about that.

originally posted by: angryhulk
Mars in 70 days, Alpha in 100 years - Those details just blew my mind and I don't think I'll recover.

I didn't blink, it still seems like far too long, and well not one hint that this will ever go ahead yet.

Still waiting after 40 years, nothing to blow the mind.

In fact, I could fly myself there much faster, some of us are more than ready to find out what the delay is really all about, and just GO THERE, screw waiting for the controllers.

YES!!!!! I love it when technology takes massive leaps like this! Too bad it wasn't accepted 15 years ago, we would already have full scale rockets at the ready, perhaps probes flying in space by now.

Nevertheless, I'm glad it's getting recognized now. The future will be VERY interesting.

Perhaps next year we can find an even better method!!!!

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: JadeStar

I feel that by the time I am a senior citizen in 45 years we will already have sent an interstellar probe on the way to some nearby solar

Unless we can develop an engine that can gain traction against spacetime itself its going to take a herculean effort to send a probe to nearby stars. Personally I'd be happy to see a overwhelmingly large telescope (OWL) built on the far side of the moon, so we can spectroscopically analyse earth-size planets.

link

Me too. That said we know how to build something right now which could get to Alpha Centauri in around 100 years. Thats a long human lifetime but only about twice as long as Voyager 1 took to reach its interstellar phase and 5x the planned mission length of Cassini at Saturn.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: Nibbles

Do you even get g-forces in a vacuum?

Eta: Seriously though. When people are in orbit they are travelling 17k or 27k, I forget the speed but it's mega fast. Are they feeling the Gees? I think not. Speed in space is irrelevant when there is no gravity as far as I know.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Speed is not what causes it, acceleration is. Yes, you will feel it in space.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: JadeStar

I feel that by the time I am a senior citizen in 45 years we will already have sent an interstellar probe on the way to some nearby solar

Unless we can develop an engine that can gain traction against spacetime itself its going to take a herculean effort to send a probe to nearby stars. Personally I'd be happy to see a overwhelmingly large telescope (OWL) built on the far side of the moon, so we can spectroscopically analyse earth-size planets.

link

Me too. That said we know how to build something right now which could get to Alpha Centauri in around 100 years. Thats a long human lifetime but only about twice as long as Voyager 1 took to reach its interstellar phase and 5x the planned mission length of Cassini at Saturn.

Still crazy that if we launched today we would all be dead before any information is brought back to us.

originally posted by: southernplayalistic
Alpha Centauri, 100 years. Build a big ship. Bring families along. Mate. I'll volunteer to be the guy who impregnates all the women.

Find a habitable planet. Start a new civilization.

Hey, i already called digs on the 'breeder' job...