Channel Tunnel: '2,000 migrants' tried to enter

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Pretty different situations, but yeah the results were a total failure.

a reply to: grainofsand

It's just mental. The whole world is under attack by them. There are loads of countries in Africa that are doing well right now, why not go Mozambique etc? Sort the real migrants out from the fake eco wanderers. Then we take the genuine Christians (only) no more Muslims at all, not one single muslim. I know many lovely muslims but history always shows when they get to a certain population percentage they will cause havoc. No more, send the to Libya or back to france, that is too far gone now and is Islamic very soon. Just Christians thanks

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ForteanOrgThat's all rather nice, but you ignore the fact that refugees must claim asylum at the first safe country. In this situation they are in a safe country, France.

They probably came from Italy. Italy takes up a lot of these refugees and in general tries to give them a decent treatment. They have asked the rest of the EU to take a number of refugees too. Only fair, I'd say.

...or you could ask them to move to your nation as you seem to indicate, I don't care, they are in a safe nation now. The UK is obligated to do nothing except lawfully protect it's border.

Which in as far as I know it does! I visit London occasionally and always have to go through border control, including having al my luggage x-rayed, removing my belt and any other metal containing artefact I might carry - being looked in the face by French and Brittish guards .. - twice. And I'm just a very legal traveller who only will stay for a short while. So it's not that it is actually easy to get to the UK if you're a refugee.

originally posted by: Danke
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Pretty different situations, but yeah the results were a total failure.

You can't stick muslims into any given area without at some point when the percentage ratio is right for conflict not to occur. Islam didn't steamroll over north Africa and asia through friendly meet ups. No good can come of letting more in. India had the right idea in the 40's it just never works. No disrespec to muslims, I admire them in many ways, but conflict always arises. No more please. Thanks................................... But no thanks

a reply to: grainofsand

You certainly could, it's not a bad idea. I don't think it will change much in the end though. As populations continue to increase, along with further escalations of war in the M.E., I fear this problem is only going to increase.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

You see though, I'm voting 'out' in the upcoming EU referendum so I of course do not share the collective responsibility thing as you do.

There is also the issue you appear to ignore that asylum applications must be made in the first safe country.
The UK is rarely the first safe country, so if you have a problem with it then start campaigning for international conventions on refugees to be changed, don't tell the UK it has any obligation to act in any way other than prescribed in those conventions.

I am also pleased that you find the UK border force thorough in execution of it's duties

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ForteanOrgYou see though, I'm voting 'out' in the upcoming EU referendum so I of course do not share the collective responsibility thing as you do.

No doubt you'll cheer again when the Scotts and the Welsh declare THEIR independence

I'll give you a simple prediction, based on what recently happened in Greece. In Greece, they firstly choose a socialist government. Which won the elections by promising the people they would not repay the huge debts their former governments had made. Then they arranged a referendum, just to make sure and asked the population: "do you want to repay these huge debts, do you want austerity?" The Greek - of course - said "OXI" (no). Then their so-called "socialist" government - which of course should have done what the people wanted, even if that had meant a 'grexit' - ignored all that and simply took another loan and promised to kick their own people in the balls again - as hard as they could. It went exactly as I had predicted - you can check my postings in here might you doubt my clairvoyant capabilities

Well, I hate to bring it to you, but my magic ball now says that something similar will happen with the British referendum. A lot of people will vote to get out of the EU - but you will remain in the EU. like it or not. But even IFF you would vote no and do as you voted - so stepped out - you aren't out yet. So, for now, you just have to be part of that greater whole and like the French take your share of refugees.

I am also pleased that you find the UK border force thorough in execution of it's duties

They've always let me in though ..

a reply to: grainofsand
Well the French don't seem to care just like the UK everyone wants them out of their countries it's not just the UK they are aiming to get to, Germany and Sweden are also highly desired final destinations . They like the idea of the UK because in general we are a safe tolerant nation unlike Italy Spain and Greece. Countries still suffering from high unemployment and recession.

Ideally we could just say go home your not welcome, but they seem pretty determined to get here. Risking life and limb. I've never been that desperate to get anywhere or get out of any situation in my life. So I can't really understand their mindset, knowing the reality of what they face when they get here. It's not just as easy as being given a house and money in England. We have plenty of homeless Brits who don't receive such luxuries.

Our government need to work with the French and other European countries where the migrants are coming from, but we're nor exactly great at working with other European nations, we only work with EU countries when it suits us.

originally posted by: dingdongdoodah
a reply to: stumason

It has made it worse with the bedroom tax.

The main issue with housing is that in the 80's and 90's they sold lots of affordable council houses then did not build new ones in there place thus population growing no houses that are indeed affordable.

Too much building has gone on over this once green pleasant land! Havn't you looked out your window lately or walked down the street? We are stepping on eachothers toes... almost.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
So, for now, you just have to be part of that greater whole and like the French take your share of refugees.

Nope, we don't.
There is no EU legislation requiring the UK to take refugees from any of the other safe countries of the EU.
If italy or anyone else fail to control their borders and allow non-EU nationals in, tough luck, the UK has to agree to help, there is no requirement for us to do anything right now except lawfully guard our borders.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

All the migrants have to do is claim asylum in France to get similar services and assistance as they will get in the UK.
If they are fleeing political oppression or death etc then asylum should be requested in the first safe country.
If they choose not to claim asylum in a safe country it is not the responsibility of a neighbouring safe country to allow them in.

These are clear international conventions, and as I see it if one is a genuine asylum seeker then you follow the conventions and ask for help as soon as you are in a safe place.
The mostly men storming the tunnel are economic migrants not asylum seekers if they are in a safe place and choose to live in a shanty camp instead of claiming asylum in France.
They are no longer at risk of whatever it was the fled from.

Not the UK's responsibility.

a reply to: grainofsand

not the U.Ks. Responsibility? Ok that's sorted the crisis out. Not our problem, crisis over!

a reply to: woodwardjnr

It is the responsibility of the UK to protect its borders and conform to international conventions on refugee/asylum seekers when they arrive at a safe place.
The safe place they are is France right now.

Do we disagree somewhere or something?

The first safe place they got to was probably Greece or Italy. They didn't want them, just like the French don't want them just like the UK don't want them. Still they will come
a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Yep, and I'm probably with you about wider international political responsibilities.
But until such things are sorted out I support a strongly defended border.

Anything less is irresponsible when one considers the hundreds of thousands net growth of the UK through legal immigration each year.

I went to Croatia and then on to Montenegro for a holiday recently. There were absolutely no blacks or asians at all whatsoever. They are on the Med straight oppostive Libya where they all come from.I just don't get why there were absolutely no migrants whatsoever there. Do they have a different policy there or something?

a reply to: grainofsand I just can't comprehend the mindset that one would be willing to lose their lives to get here, it's beyond me. A fence and some stern words aren't going to stop them. We can't start shooting them on site. So I understand why there is political paralysis over the issue. From all nations involved.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

The "political paralysis" is due to Adolf Hitler and the destruction of European Jewry. No holocaust and there would be no crappy asylum laws. Governments wouldn't have put up with Africans or Asians invading their countries pre 1939. It's all the bloody Germans fault.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
A fence and some stern words aren't going to stop them.

X amount of border force officers will though, and if the French actually wanted they could take charge of the problem they have.

Right now the UK is not signed up to any international obligations to take refugees from France.
I do not support any calls to change that.

*Edit*
Thank # for juxstaposed border controls with UK Border officers on French soil.

originally posted by: grainofsandRight now the UK is not signed up to any international obligations to take refugees from France. I do not support any calls to change that.

You don't need border control. Simply allow them in, register them and enjoy your new cheap highly motivated workforce. Given the rate at which your government takes away benefits from the British population it's infeasible anybody would come to the UK for that. Also, the constant outcry to work more, longer and harder could cease then, as there would be many more hands to carry the load. And it's good for your economy too: those immigrants eat, drink, need clothes, housing - I see a lot of economic potential.

So, why then are you against this?

What I hear and see on a daily basis is 'fear'. But if our culture is indeed as strong as we think it is and it's morals, ethics, laws, customs etc. are really that good, they will prevail - and will be upheld by the people we invited in and accepted as part of our community. Whenever I'm in say London I'm pleased to see how well the mix of all nations works out in practice. So, I'd say: let them in. Why not?