Channel Tunnel: '2,000 migrants' tried to enter

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I didn't once state there were lot's of illegal immigrants in the Netherlands, just that you have absolutely no control over your border as the UK does.
Hopefully with the increased security Britain is arranging then they'll all move your way when they realise they can't get here.
Plenty of English speaking folk in your nation so it could be a good 2nd choice for those migrants, note, not asylum seekers. Key point in this thread.

originally posted by: grainofsandYou welcome them with open arms, that is your choice, the UK chooses not to. If that upsets you, well, to be frank, tough luck fella.

I'm a bit puzzled by your observations. I'm not in charge of border control in my country. Nor am I upset, I don't know what gave you that idea.

According to me, the UK is just another European Nation. And in the end, all nations in the EU need to establish a clear, decent policy, to deal with these 'migrants'.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: grainofsandYou welcome them with open arms, that is your choice, the UK chooses not to. If that upsets you, well, to be frank, tough luck fella.

I'm a bit puzzled by your observations. I'm not in charge of border control in my country. Nor am I upset, I don't know what gave you that idea.

According to me, the UK is just another European Nation. And in the end, all nations in the EU need to establish a clear, decent policy, to deal with these 'migrants'.

How can you be puzzled?
All through this thread you have either criticised the UK for defending it's border, or advocated that we should take migrants from other safe EU nations.
There is no EU or UN convention, regulation, treaty, or law requiring the UK to do anything except defend our border lawfully.

Why should we take any? These people are in a safe country now. By your reasoning then, ANY English speaking person who makes it through the leaky EU border should be welcomed with open arms in the UK just because they want a better life. Absolutely ridiculous, and it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

I used the New Zealand example on the previous page. If I ignore immigration application processes and illegally enter New Zealand should they welcome me with open arms just because I want a nicer life? No of course not.

Now how about stop criticising the UK which is adhering to all of its international responsibilities, and take it up with the UN if you have any problem with how my nation is defending its border.

How is this for an irony?
Eritrea is asking the UN to stop people smugglers because its own population is fleeing!
news.yahoo.com...

a reply to: halfoldman

Why did you edit the link out?
Here's another one:
Hit by migrant exodus, Eritrea urges UN to investigate trafficking

NAIROBI (Reuters) - Eritrea urged the U.N. Security Council to help bring human traffickers to justice on Thursday and said smuggling groups, not human rights abuses, were causing an exodus of migrants to Europe.

It is a ridiculous claim by Eritrea of course, and I understand folk wishing to flee that country, but as soon as they reach a safe nation then that is when they should claim asylum.
Getting to Italy then traveling through France to attempt illegal entry into the UK though, no, international conventions do not support such actions by Eritrean people.

*Edit*
Apologies, Opera browser issues and mysterious disappearing links, it's happened to me before...it's a conspiracy I tell ya!

I think the French are purposely letting this get out of control as an excuse to exercise martial law under the guise of it needing to be done!

This will be a common theme amongst developed countries.The US has tried to incite M.L. With the many race baiting incidents,but has not succeeded this far.

As you all know Jade Helm is also for this reason..well it's more to do with the huge quake,possible tsunami and then the New Madrid adjustment,the locale of these exercises mirrors this and is very telling!

I also believe Britain will welcome the Calais unrest pouring across the border as an attempt to also introduce M.L.The Queen used renovation as an excuse to leave Buckingham Palace as London will be a riotous mess.

What is the root cause of this?..Planet X and all the havoc and social disorder that will unfold after 'the' announcement..

It has only just begun..

I predicted in My recent thread that the U.S. West Coast Will experience this huge quake (8mag) incident on August 15th possibly plus a few Days,we will be in alignment then and my sources data is the most accurate out there!

Good Luck all and make preparations!

originally posted by: grainofsandBy your reasoning then, ANY English speaking person who makes it through the leaky EU border should be welcomed with open arms in the UK just because they want a better life.

Yes, that's roughly what I think should happen. These people want to come to the UK - let them. If they want to come to my country - let them. After all, we created their problem, willingly and knowingly. It's only fair they come here and try to have "nicer lifes". What do you suggest we do, shoot them out of the waters? Isn't that exactly what we try to ban - that type of barbarism?

I used the New Zealand example on the previous page. If I ignore immigration application processes and illegally enter New Zealand should they welcome me with open arms just because I want a nicer life? No of course not.

The idea that these 'migrants' left their families, friends and motherland to have "a nicer life" is relevant: yes, that's exactly what they want. You'd want that too if you were kicked out of your job because of some "war on terrorism", then robbed of what money you had by gangs and the crooked pseudo-governments in those countries. If you had felt hunger, had lost your dignity. Yes, you'd want a nicer life too. What's wrong with that?

What caused all this misery? Well, WE DID. We kicked out the dictators we first had installed ourselves. We created chaos and opportunities for terrorism and fundamentalists. Without us invading their countries they would not have been here. They would gladly have stayed in Africa, close to their friends and family, in a far better climate.

Given that the UK was one of the most involved nations in the so-called "war on terror", I feel it is only fair they take in their fair share of 'migrants'.

Now how about stop criticising the UK which is adhering to all of its international responsibilities, and take it up with the UN if you have any problem with how my nation is defending its border.

Stop pretending that I'm a country - I'm not. Stop pretending you are a representative of "your" nation - you are merely a citizen there. Let's not make ourselves more important than we are.

I'm a European citizen, very worried about the foolish sentiments ventilated by the likes of you. It's a matter of time before more people will die. We do not need stiff upper lips, the UK can not survive without Europe to help it - we need nations to unite and resolve the problem we caused ourselves.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I'm a European citizen, very worried about the foolish sentiments ventilated by the likes of you. It's a matter of time before more people will die. We do not need stiff upper lips, the UK can not survive without Europe to help it - we need nations to unite and resolve the problem we caused ourselves.

We shall have to agree to disagree then. I'm a British citizen, not a European citizen, and my nation didn't stupidly remove border controls as yours did.
If any folk arrive in the UK as their first safe nation while seeking asylum I shall welcome them, but until international conventions on the rules regarding refugees are changed I suggest you go whine to the UN or Brussells.

The UK is conforming to all international obligations regarding lawfully protecting its border, so I guess you'll have to suck it up because that ain't gonna change any time soon.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I'm a European citizen, very worried about the foolish sentiments ventilated by the likes of you. It's a matter of time before more people will die. We do not need stiff upper lips, the UK can not survive without Europe to help it - we need nations to unite and resolve the problem we caused ourselves.

Yeah, we'll see about that - the UK did perfectly well without European control for hundreds of years. Just because we might leave the EU, that doesn't mean trade will cease - in fact, the Germans would be first in line to demand the EU have a free trade pact with the UK, we buy too many of their cars not too!

What we don't need is being told what to do and how to act by people we have little in common with.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

What caused all this misery? Well, WE DID. We kicked out the dictators we first had installed ourselves. We created chaos and opportunities for terrorism and fundamentalists. Without us invading their countries they would not have been here.

Total crap. The locals are breeding like Chinese did 100 years ago, like House of Lords rabbits on coke. Nairobi in Kenya the population has increased 300 times in the last 100 years. It is a local population boom that has fuelled the invasion.

Seems like a few mini guns should be able to handle the issue. That's what we want for our border to the south

originally posted by: mikell
Seems like a few mini guns should be able to handle the issue. That's what we want for our border to the south

Very true. When the square heads tried it the we waived Spifires in their face. When the Frogs tried it Wellington showed them the sword. When the Islamics try it today we waive cheque books at them and free council houses. The country has gone to put it bluntly....... Soft

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I'm not feeling the love for shooting folk who are trying to enter the UK illegally, unless the attending police officers have reason to believe that it is the only option of course.
Tazing, pepper spray, batons, and an overwhelmingly large UK force at the border? Yes, every time.
Shooting dead is too much for me when we have other options to protect the UK border.
It is, and should, remain a last resort in my opinion.

originally posted by: stumasonYeah, we'll see about that - the UK did perfectly well without European control for hundreds of years.

In those days, the UK had an imperium. Now it's mostly just the UK. And a large chunk of the Scotts are hesitant if they should still be part of the UK, so "United" - yes, but for how long? The old days of glory had long faded when the UK - totally voluntarily - joined the EU. They joined after being refused various times, but never gave up and were rewarded by a full membership.

Just because we might leave the EU, that doesn't mean trade will cease - in fact, the Germans would be first in line to demand the EU have a free trade pact with the UK, we buy too many of their cars not too!

Well, don't worry too much - you won't leave the EU. There is too much at stake. But we do agree that the current situation is an abomination. Not because the precious UK is in danger - but because we see human rights damaged, right here on European soil - and that includes the UK.

What we don't need is being told what to do and how to act by people we have little in common with.

All people have much in common - they are all flesh and blood, have desires, want to live happy lives. The fact that most Brits were born in a neck of the woods that - at least for now - is better off than most, is not of their doing. It's a coincidence. The UK rapidly evolved into a second world nation and had they not joined the EU, they would have been by now.

Actually, if these 'migrants' got their way and got themselves a British citizenship, they would be the real Brits - not by coincidence, but by choice. Now, surely, that would make you proud, right? So, why then that morbid fear for them? They are people, for gawd sakes - highly motivated to help you build your country. What's wrong with that?

You hide behind UN regulations and rules, but you are simply afraid of these silly migrants. And you're carefully avoiding the real issue: that it was the UK - to be fair: aided by the EU, NATO, the US - that caused these migrations.

However, since neither of us really has much of a say in all this, we can exchange opinions forever - it won't help those poor souls whom have to sleep in the dunes of Calais tonight.

There's a faint echo .. wait.. a voice.. what is it I hear - ah, yes, Dickens, if ever a true Brit lived - it was him! What is it he wrote..

Ebenezer Scrooge: I wish to be left alone, sir! That is what I wish! I don't make myself merry at Christmas and I cannot afford to make idle people merry. I have been forced to support the establishments I have mentioned through taxation and God knows they cost more than they're worth. Those who are badly off must go there.

2nd Portly Gentleman: Many would rather die than go there.

Ebenezer Scrooge: If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population,

Good night, gentlemen.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Ah, yet more unsubstantiated yet emotionally inspired opinion, lol.
The UK won't be changing its border policy any time soon because you or any other EU nationals wish we would. Unlucky fella, but it pleases me, so nice one for sharing your bleeding heart here.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
In those days, the UK had an imperium. Now it's mostly just the UK. And a large chunk of the Scotts are hesitant if they should still be part of the UK, so "United" - yes, but for how long? The old days of glory had long faded when the UK - totally voluntarily - joined the EU. They joined after being refused various times, but never gave up and were rewarded by a full membership.

First off, no it didn't. The UK only existed from 1707 and the Empire didn't really take off until the 19th century. Poor little England beat the Spanish in the 16th century and smited the French in the 18th and early 19th without much of an "imperium" to speak of.

Secondly, no the UK did not join the EU willingly. We joined the EEC, which back then was nothing more than a free trade bloc. Feature creep has turned it into the EU and no one under the age of 50 has ever been asked our opinion of it.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Well, don't worry too much - you won't leave the EU. There is too much at stake. But we do agree that the current situation is an abomination. Not because the precious UK is in danger - but because we see human rights damaged, right here on European soil - and that includes the UK.

No, the EU is an undemocratic monstrosity. Many in the UK are actually quite sick of it - 12.7% of the electorate voted for a Party that advocates leaving the EU and another 37% voted for a party that promised a referendum on the issue. Feelings are quite strong.

There is a real possibility that the UK will in fact leave the EU - sticking your head in the sand and pretending it won't happen won't change that.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
All people have much in common - they are all flesh and blood, have desires, want to live happy lives. The fact that most Brits were born in a neck of the woods that - at least for now - is better off than most, is not of their doing. It's a coincidence. The UK rapidly evolved into a second world nation and had they not joined the EU, they would have been by now.

Our country is the way it is because of what our forefathers achieved over many centuries - it wasn't coincidence our country is the way it is and the vast majority of the people in these islands are descended from people who have lived here for thousands of years.

I have no idea why you think the UK is a "second world" nation - usually that is used to describe Communist countries and joining the EU (which came into being in 1992) had little bearing on matters. We joined a trade bloc, not a super state - there is no reason to believe the UK cannot revert back to the EFTA it was originally a member of and continue to trade with the EU.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Actually, if these 'migrants' got their way and got themselves a British citizenship, they would be the real Brits - not by coincidence, but by choice. Now, surely, that would make you proud, right? So, why then that morbid fear for them? They are people, for gawd sakes - highly motivated to help you build your country. What's wrong with that?

There is zero proof that they are "highly motivated". Many seem to be under the impression that if they come here, they get given housing, food, money and an education - they head here for the perceived good life, not because of a burning desire to become "British".

And if they do work, they send money back home. That's hardly adding to the country, it's draining wealth.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
You hide behind UN regulations and rules, but you are simply afraid of these silly migrants. And you're carefully avoiding the real issue: that it was the UK - to be fair: aided by the EU, NATO, the US - that caused these migrations.

We caused people to leave Eritrea, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc etc? I see you're still under the misguided notion that these people are refugees fleeing some Western inspired war - pull your head out of your arse and pay attention - most of them are economic migrants from countries that are neither at War or subject to some Western intervention.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
However, since neither of us really has much of a say in all this, we can exchange opinions forever - it won't help those poor souls whom have to sleep in the dunes of Calais tonight.

No, it won't and to be honest, it's their own fault for putting themselves in that situation. They've passed through plenty of good countries to try and gain entry to the UK illegally in order to put in a bogus Asylum application to gain some mythical good life, all the while draining money from an already over-stretched state as they cannot contribute to the economy and pay taxes.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Well, don't worry too much - you won't leave the EU.

I have to say that I agree with you on this. However, let's take it back to topic and in the same was as the UK will probably vote to stay in the EU (albeit hopefully reformed), all these thousands of immigrants need to stay in France. Better still - and better for European cohesion - they should be removed from Europe all together.

The European mismanagement of immigration is just a turn off for the Brits. It is also a turn off for many Europeans. France, by managing this problem poorly, is indicating they don't want them and are happy for them to pass though. And, why would France want them?

a reply to: paraphi

That's what irks me the most about people criticising the UK about this - why is it our problem? France, Italy, Spain etc are quite happy to push them along, but no one criticises them!

a reply to: stumason

It's a complete shambles. No one wants thousands of uneducated young men who think that the world owes them, some of whom come from societies that have a low value on e.g. women's rights.

You'll have to image this, but I could give a few pictures of burned cars and buildings following a "we are bored and have not found the riches we deserve" riot in France or Sweden.

originally posted by: paraphiNo one wants thousands of uneducated young men who think

Now - stop.


Thinking young men.

Uneducated.

What, then, I beg - what then is the logical thing to do with them?

Shoot them?



Kill them?



Or, perhaps - ensure they are educated?

Let them be our guests, let them be educated. And then - either they are allowed to stay, as well educated members of our society - or return to their countries, so they can educate others.

I don't see why not. After all, that's exactly what "they" are doing..