Cincinnati preparing for riots after viewing bodycam footage of fatal UC traffic stop

originally posted by: dragonlover12
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I just saw this twitter.com...

It shows that the dragging may very well have happened.

I am not convinced.
I think the shooter fell as he pushed or jumped back from the car as it accelerated away... after the shot was fired.
I see evidence that the shooter fell, I do not see evidence that he was dragged.
I also see evidence that an unarmed man was shot in the head for no apparent reason.

Even if he was dragged, it happened after he shot the driver in the head.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I agree and disagree with you, Slap.

I think the cop greatly inflamed the situation. No, he wasn't getting a straight answer to his question but, as I said earlier, any cop that's done more than two traffic stops knows exactly what it means when somebody says "I have a license, you can run my name." There's no need to stand there and go back and forth for ten minutes over the same question. Up to that point the victim had been pretty chill and cooperative. He was polite and, in my opinion, pretty reasonable. Could he have just said "I don't have my license on me?" Sure. But the cop could've also taken the answer for what it is and moved on to the next phase of the stop.

What I agree with you on is that I don't think he had malice forethought. I don't think he hopped out of his vehicle with the intent to shoot anybody. I think it's going to be tough to prove a murder charge. I do think he created the situation which resulted in him killing somebody, and needs to be held accountable for that. In my opinion it was a very, very rapid calamity of errors and that lead to a needless death.

No need to be shot that is for sure. I just don't get one thing though...are we truly this stupid? Why is it so hard to answer easy questions? Like I said I don't agree with the young man being shot but just answer the damn questions. The cop must prepare for the worst before even getting out of his car. What's the first thing you notice with the young man in the car? Is it that he is wearing all red? What should that tell you? Well I would first question if he is affiliated with the local gang...more enticing The Bloods. There are just so many things that can be done by a citizen to help this process. Not all cops are good or do the right thing but many of them try and just like us make mistakes. Unfortunately for them they only get a few seconds to decide whether or not it will danger them or someone else.

The noon channel 12 news is reporting that a "Reverend" Westley West is coming to town from Baltimore to hold a "vigil". The "Bishop Bobby Hilton" was also making face-time on the news while people outside of the courthouse was calling for justice. Somebody please explain why a "reverend" has to come here from Baltimore. Why are there people on the courthouse steps calling for justice when the cop is being arraigned for murder inside? Do they want an immediate lynching or the legal process?

I just can't get over the behavior of the "Bishop Bobby Hilton" during the Officer Sonny Kim murder. When he was interviewed by channel 12 he came out with how the cop shot the black man when the cop was actually ambushed. The black shooter was shot by another officer after he murdered Kim. The "Bishop Bobby Hilton" disappeared for several days making no other inflammatory statements. He finally issued his condolences two day after Officer Kim's funeral. This clown is a real standup guy! Now, he has another opportunity to get his face on TV. He is just looking for a chance to further himself on the backs of young black men. "Bishop Bobby Hilton", Cincinnati's "Reverend Al Sharpton".

Im sorry but i was under the impression that a car is a lethal weapon correct? Also the guy could had been reaching for a weapon as he was moving around in the car. Still the cop should not had fired but the supreme court has stated if you run or try to get away from a cop they can legally shoot you if they believe you are a threat.

Of course this cop will be sacrificed to the neighborhood so its a moot point. His chief is tossing him under the bus to save his own butt. teh chief should be charged too for negligence in hiring said officer.

a reply to: yuppa

When did the car become a lethal threat?

After the officer reached in the window

The vehicle posed no threat to him whatsoever before he reached inside it. He wouldn't even have been clipped by the mirror if he hadn't moved.

So yes, a car is a lethal threat. The problem here is the car became a threat because of what the officer did.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The problem here is the car became a threat because of what the officer did.

I watched the video a few more times this morning after posting yesterday. I came to that conclusion as well and find myself unable to defend the cops actions, regardless of what the man in the car said or did. That leaves me wondering though, if it would have been better to charge the cop with voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. I have a feeling he'll get off on a murder charge.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: yuppa

When did the car become a lethal threat?

After the officer reached in the window

The vehicle posed no threat to him whatsoever before he reached inside it. He wouldn't even have been clipped by the mirror if he hadn't moved.

So yes, a car is a lethal threat. The problem here is the car became a threat because of what the officer did.

HEre. A car IS considered a lethal weapon.

car a lethal weapon?

a reply to: EternalSolace

You throw a bigger charge up first so if it doesn't stick you have some fallback. Shoot for the moon but land on the stars.

I don't think they will get murder either, maybe voluntary like your said or involuntary.

a reply to: yuppa

Yes, a car can be a lethal weapon, but the OFFICER caused the situation in which the car became a "weapon".

It would be like pulling a pistol from someone's waistband, putting in their hands, and then shooting the person saying "They were armed!"

Yes, they certainly were, but who was responsible for the situation?

a reply to: yuppa

Also the guy could had been reaching for a weapon as he was moving around in the car.

He could have been doing that when he was rooting around the glove box or pulling out the bottle of gin..... yet the ex-cop didn't blow his brains out then.
And the car never moved until after the shot was fired.

a reply to: NerdGoddess

The world is proud of you CINCY!!!! I just got back from lunch with friends and the topic came up as the subject appeared on one of the many TV's over the bar. That's all the people want; to be heard; and the guilty dealt with accordingly. Btw, none of us up here were surprised at the peaceful way it was handled. But I would be lying if I didn't give a silent "Phew!"

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: yuppa

When did the car become a lethal threat?

After the officer reached in the window

The vehicle posed no threat to him whatsoever before he reached inside it. He wouldn't even have been clipped by the mirror if he hadn't moved.

So yes, a car is a lethal threat. The problem here is the car became a threat because of what the officer did.

HEre. A car IS considered a lethal weapon.

car a lethal weapon?

You're confusing "can be" with "is."

A car CAN BE a deadly weapon, depending on how it's used. A car does not exist in a state of "deadly weapon."

Kind of like how you don't get arrested for using a baseball bat while playing baseball, but do get arrested when using the same bat on somebody's face.

a reply to: yuppa

HEre. A car IS considered a lethal weapon.

I agree, a car is considered a lethal weapon and I saw that angle coming....this is why I mentioned the Sean Bell incident in one of my comments for more than one reason.

Now, check this out:

Sean Bell shooting incident

Response to the shooting

New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg has said "it sounds to me like excessive force was used,"[29] and has called the shooting "inexplicable" and "unacceptable".[30] Ex-New York governor George E. Pataki has also stated that the shooting was excessive.[30] Kelly has put the five officers involved on paid administrative leave and stripped them of their weapons, a move the New York Times called "forceful".[30]

He told the Times that the officers were stripped of their guns because "there were, and are, too many unanswered questions." Both Bloomberg and Kelly have also noted that the shooting was possibly in violation of department guidelines prohibiting shooting at a moving vehicle, even if the vehicle is being used as a weapon. The Public Advocate extended condolences to Bell's former fiancée and family following the killing.[32]

en.wikipedia.org...

You stated:

HEre. A car IS considered a lethal weapon.

+

Both Bloomberg and Kelly have also noted that the shooting was possibly in violation of department guidelines prohibiting shooting at a moving vehicle, even if the vehicle is being used as a weapon.

Your statement is correct. A car is considered a lethal weapon and that is why people are charged with death by negligence using a lethal weapon in drunk driving cases, but to use that as argument in this particular case is a blanket statement. Know YOUR laws, especially if you are going to use it as counter talking points.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: NerdGoddess

The world is proud of you CINCY!!!! I just got back from lunch with friends and the topic came up as the subject appeared on one of the many TV's over the bar. That's all the people want; to be heard; and the guilty dealt with accordingly. Btw, none of us up here were surprised at the peaceful way it was handled. But I would be lying if I didn't give a silent "Phew!"

Chief Blackwell let it be known that behavior like in Baltimore wouldn't be tolerated. The black activists telegraphed their intentions last month with the murder of Officer Kim by a black man. "Bishop Bobby Hilton" while on local TV puked the national rhetoric of white cops killing black men until he learned the black man ambushed Kim. The "bishop" now has reenforcement reverends coming to town from Baltimore. We'll see if the peace holds now that Hilton has a platform for his rhetoric.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: yuppa

Yes, a car can be a lethal weapon, but the OFFICER caused the situation in which the car became a "weapon".

It would be like pulling a pistol from someone's waistband, putting in their hands, and then shooting the person saying "They were armed!"

Yes, they certainly were, but who was responsible for the situation?

Officers cause chases and criminals to shoot at them too but are they responsible for that as well? The man in the car grabbed the cops hand first and escalated the incident by resisting and looks like he was gonna try to run.
Id call this manslaughter at most due to the cops negligence. he could had tased the guy.

a reply to: buddah6

I need to google who Bishop Bobby Hilton is, I have never heard of him. From what you suggest, he sounds like a character the U.S can do without. America seems to be a nation that produces unique personalities and characters....yeah?

"Bishop Bobby Hilton" while on local TV puked the national rhetoric of white cops killing black men until he learned the black man ambushed Kim.

Yeah, that kind of foolishness needs to stop. It is an abstraction and distraction towards what is actually taking place there.

What do I believe is taking place in the U.S?

I see cops killing civilians of all demographics (including socioeconomic) and it's being twisted by the propaganda machine of the media to fit into a race agenda. You see, despite the fact the black population are killed by police at a higher rate in the States, cops really aren't discriminating at all when they kill civilians (some do tho, most do not). And when people foolishly believe it is white vs. black issue, the powers to be know they have one. The public has been duped. In saying that; if the Bishop is stirring up waters that are being settled and/or calmed, and the people buy into it, then America once again looks like a fool to the rest of the world and will play into the unfair (but sometimes deserving) stereotype the world has about them. I encourage you to have more faith in your fellow countrymen.

We'll see if the peace holds now that Hilton has a platform for his rhetoric.

I'm an optimistic person in general. How about you...?

a reply to: Involutionist

I first came across the "Bishop Bobby Hilton" while watching a on scene local news report of the shooting of a Cincinnati policeman a month ago. Hilton was interviewed and began say that the black community was upset with white police killing black men. This was about 10 AM and within an hour CPD was reporting that Officer Sonny Kim had been ambushed by a black man only to be shot by another black officer. The "bishop" disappeared not to be seen for several days. He did send his condolences two days after Kim's funeral.

Now, with the shooting of Dubose the "bishop" has reappeared with the same rhetoric as he used against Sonny Kim last month. This man is no "bishop" but an antagonist with a bias toward a national movement. He has a platform to spew his division and hatred. If he were a true bishop, he would be working for healing not the racial divide.

Like I have said before, I have lived in Cincinnati since 1964 when I came here to go to school. The only time that I've been away is during my active duty military service and Cincinnati is my home. I absolutely hate it when people go out of their way to cause trouble here. Cincinnati is not Baltimore or Ferguson and the people who want to make it that way can rot in He!!.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: yuppa

When did the car become a lethal threat?

After the officer reached in the window

The vehicle posed no threat to him whatsoever before he reached inside it. He wouldn't even have been clipped by the mirror if he hadn't moved.

So yes, a car is a lethal threat. The problem here is the car became a threat because of what the officer did.

HEre. A car IS considered a lethal weapon.

car a lethal weapon?

You're confusing "can be" with "is."

A car CAN BE a deadly weapon, depending on how it's used. A car does not exist in a state of "deadly weapon."

Kind of like how you don't get arrested for using a baseball bat while playing baseball, but do get arrested when using the same bat on somebody's face.

Jsus krist man you are saying all the right things. Either you are trolling us , if not I owe you an apology for previous things said. I Hope you are not trolling loil.

Your perspective is sharp and unique plus it is refreshing.

If I find out you're a shill I WILL FIND YOU I PROMISE YOU THAT but until then we good.

I hope and pray that the leaders of the Cinncy community meet the out-of-town people at the city limits and explain to them that they have the problem in hand. I have confidence that they can react as the Charleston community reacted, without riots and further violence.
An arrest of the lying "back-up" officer would go a long way toward calming the unrest since his crime is as blatant as the shooter's crime.