"Cecil" the Lion Hunted and Killed

i was very sad to read of this incident. i abhor sport hunting. the idea of killing as fun goes right under my head.

r.i.p. old Cecil

originally posted by: HumanPLC

Mate, go and read up on the many species that have now had to be protected due to them being hunted close to the point of extinction.

Illegal hunting/poaching or registered sanctioned legal hunting?

And what difference does it make if it's trophy hunting or for food ---- as long as its legal and nothing goes to waste? If the trophy hunter only wants the trophy, then the meat will go to locals.

These governments and private sponsored groups have spent a lot of time and money teaching/training locals the importance of animal conservation and protecting their heritage of indigenous animals.

Hunting licenses are not cheap. Portions of the fee goes to preservation of the wildlife. Without mans intervention they'd probably all be extinct.

Of course there is corruption, but where isn't there corruption. And "perfect" doesn't exist. It's hard to know just who is at fault in this case. The guide should clearly have known what he was doing. The hunter? I'm not so sure.

It's a tough sell to not kill a protective animal if your family is hungry. I'd much rather a trophy hunter (who follows the rules) pay $50,000 and donate the meat to locals, so they don't need to hunt.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
i was very sad to read of this incident. i abhor sport hunting. the idea of killing as fun goes right under my head.

r.i.p. old Cecil

Yep I could not even imagine doing something like this. The voice of my soul would not allow it. I walk around worms on the sidewalk after the rain storms because what is the point of killing then when I can just walk around them. Does this make me a weak person......No empathy and compassion are in fact the roots of real strength and character.

a reply to: SubTruth

No, empathy and compassion would be picking them up and putting them where they might survive.

Just walking around them is apathy.

Just sayin'. But the point you're making is clear... Just bein' a jerk, sorry.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SubTruth

No, empathy and compassion would be picking them up and putting them where they might survive.

Just walking around them is apathy.

Just sayin'. But the point you're making is clear... Just bein' a jerk, sorry.

Actually I looked it up and they do this for a reason the ground becomes so wet they can not breath.......I actually looked it up.....Apathy I think not. Scientists are not 100% sure but this might be the reason they speculate.


But nice logic fail any which way...........Also if apathy was at play I would not even be thinking about it......Comprehend?

a reply to: Annee

Its strange that you talk about corruption and also attempt to justify trophy hunting by using the old "The meat is fed to the villagers" method of reasoning.

It is corrupt, and based on that do you really think a corrupt organiser is going to just donate the meat to a local village, or are they more likely to sell the meat for financial gain.

You know, there have been a few comments on this thread claiming that those against trophy hunting are living in some sort of innocent utopian la la land. Its actually the other way round, this utopian la la land is occupied by those who are pro trophy hunting through their belief that trophy hunting aids conservation and helps local communities, etc.

Trophy hunting is a profit industry, animals are hunted and killed; the tourists have their 'fun' and the organisers get rich. The only looser is the Lion.

a reply to: HumanPLC

Six other losers too.

“The saddest part of all is that now that Cecil is dead, the next lion in the hierarchy, Jericho, will most likely kill all Cecil’s cubs so that he can insert his own bloodline into the females,” the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said.

originally posted by: HumanPLC

It is corrupt, and based on that do you really think a corrupt organiser is going to just donate the meat to a local village, or are they more likely to sell the meat for financial gain.

Not everyone is corrupt and the Black Market is not always bad.

Money has to come from somewhere. That's logic.

A "mistake" was made. That's the only reason we're hearing about this.

And Yes, I've done a lot of reading on animal conservation in Africa.

originally posted by: HumanPLC
a reply to: Dragoon01

Where I got my info? I told you from guys who trophy hunt thats where!
People who have been on ten thousand acre ranches in Africa with no fences and stalked multiple animals over a week. No, most trophy hunts do not take place with fenced animals. Does that happen? Sure it does but its not the majority regardless of what some of the anti hunter types tell you. This animal was not caged. So your BS is irrelevant. It wandered off of the "preserve"

I can assure you that 'the anti hunter types' are not my source of information but i think its rather hypocritical that you would attempt to critiscise my source of information when you have basically stated that your sources are essentially people who you know, friends of yours.

So essentially your whole opinion is based on something your mates told you? Your friends who just happen to be trophy hunters. Have you ever considered that they may be just a little bit bias?

This is why i am telling you to go and read up on a few facts.

if there were no big game hunters these animals would already be gone.

Mate, go and read up on the many species that have now had to be protected due to them being hunted close to the point of extinction.

Lions are higher on that chain in the wild. They will kill you with no regard for your opinion.

A lion wont kill you for a trophy, it will kill you to feed or protect his/her family, that's a whole different ball park.

It wandered off of the "preserve".

I think "It 'wandered' off of the reserve. " is much more accurate... Its was lured off!


Mate, I have no problem with hunting for food, materials or self preservation as its for those exact same reason a wild animal probably would want to kill me if it could. But trophy hunting, that's a whole different thing! Killing for fun? Well, that says it all really. How can killing for pure fun ever be justified?

Ah so your biased "sources" are to be believed over the people that I know personally who have been hunting in Africa none of which have ever participated in what is called a "Canned hunt". Sure that makes all manner of sense.

Yes animals have been hunted to extinction by poachers who wish to use the animals parts. Bones or organs are big in Asia. You want to stop animals going extinct then attack the Asians who want Tiger Schlong Pills for their ED not a game hunter who will kill one lion is his entire life.

I really dont care how you parse out your okay hunting and not okay hunting threshold. The good thing is that unless you happen to own the animals in question your opinion on how someone else is hunting does not matter.

originally posted by: Annee

A pattern? So far I've seen one proven.

I'm still waiting on the facts for this one. Seems to me he did everything legal, up to a point.

Questions on how the lion was lured out still need to be answered.

It's still a prior conviction even if it's just once.

Well, he knew once they killed it that it had a collar on then. So why not alert someone of what happened right then??? Why skin it, take it's head and try to destroy the collar and now go into hiding if he's so innocent about it???

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Annee

A pattern? So far I've seen one proven.

I'm still waiting on the facts for this one. Seems to me he did everything legal, up to a point.

Questions on how the lion was lured out still need to be answered.

It's still a prior conviction even if it's just once.

Well, he knew once they killed it that it had a collar on then. So why not alert someone of what happened right then??? Why skin it, take it's head and try to destroy the collar and now go into hiding if he's so innocent about it???

Yes, and he admitted it.

I'm just waiting for facts on this one.

You've been here long enough to know how first reports are.

originally posted by: IanFleming

The very fact that you are posting here alive and well, not having actually included yourself in the "culling of humanity" like you said, rather disproves your objection, doesn't it?

The culling of humanity doesn't require "killing" them off exactly. Simply cutting back or stopping the breeding for a time would be enough. Which I have volunteered myself to be a part of for your information.

Check it out. I recommend you become a member as I think the world could use less of you as well.
www.vhemt.org...

NOW, STOP TALKING TO ME! I'VE ALREADY SHOWN YOU TO BE A FRAUD AND LIAR AND I'VE ASKED YOU REPEATEDLY TO STOP TALKING TO ME!!!

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: IanFleming

The very fact that you are posting here alive and well, not having actually included yourself in the "culling of humanity" like you said, rather disproves your objection, doesn't it?

The culling of humanity doesn't require "killing" them off exactly. Simply cutting back or stopping the breeding for a time would be enough. Which I have volunteered myself to be a part of for your information.

Check it out. I recommend you become a member as I think the world could use less of you as well.
www.vhemt.org...

NOW, STOP TALKING TO ME! I'VE ALREADY SHOWN YOU TO BE A FRAUD AND LIAR AND I'VE ASKED YOU REPEATEDLY TO STOP TALKING TO ME!!!

I'm glad you took yourself out of the gene pool. Well done!

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Annee

A pattern? So far I've seen one proven.

I'm still waiting on the facts for this one. Seems to me he did everything legal, up to a point.

Questions on how the lion was lured out still need to be answered.

It's still a prior conviction even if it's just once.

Well, he knew once they killed it that it had a collar on then. So why not alert someone of what happened right then??? Why skin it, take it's head and try to destroy the collar and now go into hiding if he's so innocent about it???

Because in a criminal trial prior acts have no bearing on the act in question.
It biases a Jury.
Its only alleged that they destroyed the collar and IIRC they did notify the officials that the lion had been taken.

He has gone into hiding because insane anti hunt people have inundated his social media outlets with threats and insults.

A "mistake?"

You've got to be kidding me.

Ignorance is no defense either.

a reply to: Annee

He admitted that he is the one who killed it but didn't know it was protected. I find that questionable but who knows, it's possible.

However, he knew at least when they shot it and started dressing it out before they left the carcass there. He would have seen the collar. But he contacted nobody. They simply took their prize and ditched the rest. The only reason we know about it is because they tracked the collar which was thought to be broken and not working after they smashed it.

That's like a hit and run. You are still responsible for an "accident" but if you leave it's now a crime.

originally posted by: IanFleming

I'm glad you took yourself out of the gene pool. Well done!

Like I said, you should join me. Make the world a better place.

In modern times, wild animals are not going to survive without the help of man. Just a fact.

Money is needed. Just a fact. Some proceeds from hunting licenses will go to conservation. Better then nothing.

Is there such evidence? According to a 2005 paper by Nigel Leader-Williams and colleagues in the Journal of International Wildlife Law and Policy the answer is yes. Leader-Williams describes how the legalization of white rhinoceros hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to reintroduce the species onto their lands. As a result, the country saw an increase in white rhinos from fewer than one hundred individuals to more than 11,000, even while a limited number were killed as trophies. In a 2011 letter to Science magazine, Leader-Williams also pointed out that the implementation of controlled, legalized hunting was also beneficial for Zimbabwe’s elephants. “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.” It is important to note, however, that the removal of mature elephant males can have other, detrimental consequences on the psychological development of younger males. And rhinos and elephants are very different animals, with different needs and behaviors.

conservationmagazine.org...

a reply to: Annee and Dragoon01

Im not going to get into quoting everything you said, etc. From the lack of weight in your replies (relying on you mates word and trying to claim the black market isnt always bad) its pretty obvious that this is something you cant justify yet still choose to believe in yourselves regardless of logic or the facts.

Poachers kill 300 Zimbabwe elephants with cyanide

Poachers killed the elephants over the past three months by lacing waterholes and salt licks with cyanide. Animals are drawn to them during the dry season in the already arid and remote south-eastern section of the 5,660-square mile park.
After the elephants died, often collapsing just a few yards from the source, lions, hyenas and vultures which fed on their carcasses were also struck down, as were other animals such as kudu and buffalo that shared the same waterholes.

When Saviour Kasukuwere, Zimbabwe's environment minister, visited a village just outside the park two weeks ago she was told that the poachers had acted out of desperation as their crops had failed and tourism fees from hunters and safari operators had dried up.

You guys keep on demonizing legal hunts and you can expect more headlines like above.


Over half the money legal hunters bring in goes to pay the Park Rangers through licensing fees that fight off the poachers and a large portion of the other half winds up in villagers hands. Of course you guys know that..right???

You guys are also smart enough to know rangers don't work for free and villagers will do what they have to in order to survive so if sport hunters stop coming their survival will not entail preserving wildlife.