My take on the UFO phenomenon

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

You mean, your lack of it? You could give us your alternative explanations, specially in the close contact (abduction) phenomena. What's your take? Let's read it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't possibly give any explanations for what others think, feel and experience. I wasn't there at the time, so it would be totally speculative on my part.

Irrelevant, the point is checking the corroborative elements of such experiences, for instance, the obvious paralelisms between them with people that ever met each other, in times where the whole abduction idea was almost completely unknown on the massive population.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Im a little aggrivated this week as i have a twitch above my left ear and its giving me considerable discomfort so i apologize for the blunt response.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. And i still value your critism and oppinion as what i say is also just critism and oppinion.

I came of as a bit nasty, Like a lion with a tooth ache.

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Some advice for you?

Put these words all over your posts:

apparently, possibly, maybe, what I apparently observed,
theoretically, my theory, my postulate, etc.
Then say all the same stuff.

That's what I do.

It shows that you are not insane, that you do understand
consensual reality, whether you fully agree with it or
not.

Then people will be more willing to talk with you.

I think AnuTyr is doing a fine job of speaking for himself. He is extremely well-informed and we can benefit from his experience and his experiences.

There is no "consensual reality", there is only reality. There may be agreed-upon perspectives or conventions within a given society, but even those are constantly shifting.
We learn new facts, new concepts and ideas emerge, and the reality of ten minutes ago no longer applies.
Pluto used to be a planet. The Apatosaurus used to be the Brontosaurus, they've been dead for 65 million years and their consensual reality is still in flux.

To appeal to "consensual reality" is an appeal to "the way people used to think".

I appreciate this thank you. You guys are the reason why have been my number one place to share information.

There is zero credible evidence of Aliens although I think life on other planets exists, at least in some vague way or other. I know UFO exist as I have seen several and up close. You can't draw any conclusions from those set of facts, so I am open to new evidence as it becomes available. If Aliens exist and are capable of interaction with Earth and then also with hominids the rate of occurrence is way rarer than average UFO sightings, in my opinion.
a reply to: Bloodydagger

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

You mean, your lack of it? You could give us your alternative explanations, specially in the close contact (abduction) phenomena. What's your take? Let's read it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't possibly give any explanations for what others think, feel and experience. I wasn't there at the time, so it would be totally speculative on my part.

Irrelevant, the point is checking the corroborative elements of such experiences, for instance, the obvious paralelisms between them with people that ever met each other, in times where the whole abduction idea was almost completely unknown on the massive population.

Agreed, although there is a hidden point in your statement – the mass of the population have not experienced abduction. In fact, abductions had increased in direct correlation with media exposure/reporting. As time, and suspicion or doubt about these stories increases, abductions have reduced in number. That is either coincidental or there is a causal or related link between the two.

originally posted by: starswift
There is zero credible evidence of Aliens although I think life on other planets exists, at least in some vague way or other. I know UFO exist as I have seen several and up close. You can't draw any conclusions from those set of facts, so I am open to new evidence as it becomes available. If Aliens exist and are capable of interaction with Earth and then also with hominids the rate of occurrence is way rarer than average UFO sightings, in my opinion.
a reply to: Bloodydagger

The information available pointing to massive contact with 'alien' entities is overwhelming. Their origin is ultimately a matter of speculation, of course.

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

You mean, your lack of it? You could give us your alternative explanations, specially in the close contact (abduction) phenomena. What's your take? Let's read it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't possibly give any explanations for what others think, feel and experience. I wasn't there at the time, so it would be totally speculative on my part.

Irrelevant, the point is checking the corroborative elements of such experiences, for instance, the obvious paralelisms between them with people that ever met each other, in times where the whole abduction idea was almost completely unknown on the massive population.

Agreed, although there is a hidden point in your statement – the mass of the population have not experienced abduction. In fact, abductions had increased in direct correlation with media exposure/reporting. As time, and suspicion or doubt about these stories increases, abductions have reduced in number. That is either coincidental or there is a causal or related link between the two.

Do you have an access to a particular and precise database to affirm that 'abductions have reduced in number'?
It was speculated that it could be possible that around 2% of the american population could have been victim of UFO abductions. I'm also unsure about that either.

But one thing is certain, before the mass spreading of information in the 80s about the subject, an alarming number of people started to talk of their experiences, and the shocking correlation between their tales were certainly pointing to a real, precise, defined and phenomena. Many, many others related 'missing time' experiences, but refused to 'go forward' and 'try to find' anything else about what happened to them. The way I see it, it seems that there could exist a vast number of people that are aware of similar experiences but for whatever reason decided to never made them public. Just God knows how many really were abducted at some point.

In any case, it's logical to expect that, after a couple or well known books on the subject, plus certain movies at the end of the 80s and beginning opf the 90s, many people who suffered the same things will take courage and bring their stories to the open. And of course, you could also expect a certain number (I suspect little comparing the overall) of others that would probably 'make up a case' just to get publicity, and eventually, money of it.

Access, no, not any longer. I read a fantastic unbiassed book about statistical data on all sorts of phenomena, in which was a very wide study on the data. I shall ask my friend to give me the title when I see her next. Her particular area of interest and study is in extraterrestrial organic life.

Unfortunately, if any real encounter/abduction event has or does occur it will be lost in the static of the 'me too' haze. I'm not totally closed to an event like this happening, but I find it extremely unlikely. My personal opinion is if a species encounter event did occur it would be very dramatic. Whether you agree on that would depend on your own definition or interpretation of 'dramatic'.

I don't generally believe much in abductions but more in hypnotic states, fantasy, delusion, hysteria.
UFO experiences often coincide with these states perhaps due to electromagnetic frequencies and the unusual nature of the phenomenon. As well as media induced expectations. Alter realities are a more intriguing idea, to me, and have aspects of spiritual rapture or religious ecstasy. It's interesting that man has still not managed to figure out the phenomenon. Kind of like "there are more things in heaven and earth than dreamed of in your philosophy, Horatio"
Mystery is the spice of life. Anything but Aliens though, that overworked trope!
reply to: 321Go

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Bloodydagger

Do I believe in life other than what's on this planet? Yes

Do I believe in abductions?
No

Do I believe we are being visited?
No

Am I open to changing my stance?
Yessir

I want it to be real---Just waiting for it to materialize.

Does really matter if anybody believe or not in abductions? Not quite, but they happened, a lot.

Multiple abductees at the same time, unexplained missing time, physical marks associated to the memories, physical traces on landings, multiple external witnesses, pretty recognizable pattern of events described by people that never meet each other, in times where the abduction phenomena wasn't widely known as today (no cable TV, no internet, no cellphones, no extensive bibliography on the subject).

Your alternative explanations are...?

Oh yeah, 'collective mind', 'sleep paralysis', 'dreams', 'lies', 'misinterpretations', 'unknown mental conditions'. Sureeee... you better wake up once for all.

You obviously don't need me for this conversation, carry on.

a reply to: 321Go

In fact, abductions had increased in direct correlation with media exposure/reporting. As time, and suspicion or doubt about these stories increases, abductions have reduced in number.

What information has led you to these conclusions? Isn't it just as likely that it was an increase in abductions that led to an increase in reporting and media exposure, rather than the other way around as you suggest? Or do you really have conclusive numbers to support your statement?

Furthermore, wouldn't a person be more likely to report an abduction after they saw reports of it happening to other people as well?

And those media reports might have included information about where a person could report their abduction. In the decades of abductions before the internet, there was virtually no way to even report an alien abduction. Quite likely, media coverage enabled people to finally report their experiences.

Lastly, you seem to suggest that there was a time when reports of alien abduction were not treated with suspicion and doubt. When was that, exactly?

a reply to: JackHill

Do you have an access to a particular and precise database to affirm that 'abductions have reduced in number'?
It was speculated that it could be possible that around 2% of the american population could have been victim of UFO abductions.

I also question what data he's working from.
And I have heard speculation that the percentage of abductees may be as high as three to five percent. But I have to wonder about those numbers as well. At any rate, it is an enormous undertaking.

a reply to: 321Go

well ill let you know what is just the facts..im going to be quick about it though as this rabbit hole runs deep. i believe her name is jessie she was from staffordshire i think 1954ish she is were you want to start. she gives it all away right there. then dr macks african kids testimony and drawings. while researching stay away from all roswell bull#! all im gonna say about that is of course american media put the story out there in the 40s people were terrified of a nuclear war and we didnt want russia knowing that we were spying on the with high alt. balloons! the assesment that was written explains this.. and please dont go down the bob dean hole either!! next check out in i think it was in 52 the dc mass sightings and testimony..im not going to give it all to ya u have to look at the obvious for yourself. oh btw any photos kinda recent stay away from but u know this already. next dead givaway is i think it was taken in mt washington in late 1800s of the so called oldest ufo pic ever taken..sorry, that was a airship invented by some brazillian alberto something ..most pics of the old were airships..funny also they were shaped just like ufos so be careful. next.. well just try it before u knock it was a book written by gleasons wife and illl stop there. i will tell u something about roswell though a crash did happen right around that time but american govnt had no idea what the hell it was. i think it was azteck but honestly i forgot were. fact is these are interplanetary ships not at all hostel "as of yet" and have been seen sitting also on the ocean floor the tech that they are using seems almost magical to us..yes they have been drawings of these so called ships found in caves for hundreds if not thousands of years..and im not talking about that ancient alien crap like the madonna saint giovani # on tv the one were a guy walking his dog and pointing up at a supose ufo and the like,wrong hole again. thats been debunked ten years ago. i will tel you first hand that the entire bush family knows about this ufo stuff first hand and just a handful more of there cronies everyone els knows either bs or just a little piece of the pie. to be honest though i dont blame them for not telling us.. it would have totaly efed up america for good and you smart ones out there above a 140 iq know im right. reagan and eisenhour said it loud and freaking clear. as far as of now as in today im sick n tired of hearing about disclosure especialy from greer. its been disclosed for a while now..yea i know i know you want obama to interupt your discovery or sci fi program and tell you but that just isnt going to ever ever happen. not while we are alive anyway. leave it up to our grandchldren.

a reply to: starswift

Anything but Aliens though, that overworked trope!

When I was a kid, science knew of only nine planets in the universe. Anything more was pure speculation.
Now we discover a new planet every day. Just days ago, they announced finding a world very similar to Earth. Aliens are an inevitability. And the presence of these disc-shaped craft that surpass our understanding of propulsion, of acceleration, of gravitational forces? They suggest a high likelihood that contact is occurring.

Aliens are an "overworked trope"? So are shark attacks. So is war. But they still happen.

And yet I have seen many of them, as close as 80 feet and so I you would might have to admit that I have had a lot of experience (much more than any one or any researchers I know of, or you, for that matter). But you would like to be able to lecture me based on nothing I can think of, I've read most of what is out there that was any good. I think I said I thought there might be Aliens, but I guess you skipped the part that was inconvenient to getting off a shot at a conveniently perceived target. Here is back at ya.
a reply to: Afdcs

a reply to: starswift

And yet I have seen many of them, as close as 80 feet and so I you would might have to admit that I have had a lot of experience (much more than any one or any researchers I know of, or you, for that matter).

There is nothing like a close sighting, we can agree on that. To be close to one of these vehicles is an epiphany. The experience can answer a lot of questions, and raise a lot more questions. Especially when it is a daylight sighting, it can be a life-changing event.
I do believe you when you say you have had a lot of experience, but I disagree when you say you have had more experience. You'd be surprised.
And a lot depends on what you mean when you say 'aliens'.

Not at all...
How about 10 feet?
a reply to: Afdcs

a reply to: starswift

How about 10 feet?

You're getting warmer.

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: starswift

How about 10 feet?

You're getting warmer.

Whatever happened to your other account (Scdfa), I still want to know more about your experiences

Regards.