My take on the UFO phenomenon

all you guys make sense to me..problem is for every one honest person comes a ten fold of people that just need some attention and want to just believe for there own personal agendas. ive been let down so many times by this topic its insane like robert sallas all of a sudden coming out a few months ago and saying oh yea by the way ive been abducted also! common give me a freaking break man! thanks for the let down.

a reply to: davetheskeptic

i could tell you im being honest but i don't think that would really matter. It's been a couple years since my encounter and iv told it more than once. I can't really show any verifiable proof other than well.. Talking to my friends that are witnesses or paying for my plane ticket to your house so i can summon some skinwalkers on your doorstep.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: davetheskeptic

i could tell you im being honest but i don't think that would really matter. It's been a couple years since my encounter and iv told it more than once. I can't really show any verifiable proof other than well.. Talking to my friends that are witnesses or paying for my plane ticket to your house so i can summon some skinwalkers on your doorstep.

Some advice for you?

Put these words all over your posts:

apparently, possibly, maybe, what I apparently observed,
theoretically, my theory, my postulate, etc.

Then say all the same stuff.

That's what I do.

It shows that you are not insane, that you do understand
consensual reality, whether you fully agree with it or
not.

Then people will be more willing to talk with you.

I have to say, that if I left out my material on
potential plasma beings, people would think
I'm a hardcore debunker.

(as most of the crap on ATS is just WRONG)

I went through all the world's dubious material,
and I found ONE SMALL BIT which isn't delusion,
and which (apparently) ties it all together.

I'm half embarrassed all the time to discuss it,
but it seems to be true.. so I have to go with
it..

all sorts of crazy stuff turned out to be true
and proven by science.

So my theories may either be proven true,
or be dis proven.

But if you put stuff in that context, it helps
you keep a grip on reality (whatever that means)
and more people will talk with you.

Just a suggestion.

Kev

a reply to: AnuTyr

Why dont you summon them to your own property and take some video/pictures but I won't hold my breath on that.

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
Think about it - Even when believers cite video evidence or photographic evidence (two of the best kinds of evidence possible), people still don't believe it. Nowadays, videos and photographs can be edited or doctored in so many different ways that skeptics will never accept them as good evidence. This basically makes video and photographic evidence non-existent today. When a skeptic sees it, they will most likely just write it off as "made up" or "edited in some way".

I don't think it comes down to skeptics refusing to accept video and photographic evidence, it's that the sensible mind can't accept it when we know that such evidence can be so easily fabricated.

It's all about the rational and the reasonable.
Is it likely that someone has filmed an alien being interviewed and that this video would then somehow manage to be leaked? No.
Do we know for a scientific fact that such a video could be manufactured in someones bedroom on a high-end laptop? Yes.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
Do I believe in UFOs? Yes, I believe UFOs exist. There is evidence that unidentified flying objects have been seen in our skies for many many decades. Do I think this means they are alien spacecraft? No, because I haven't yet seen any conclusive evidence of it.

I'm of the same mind.
I fully believe that people see flying craft doing interesting things that are entirely unexplained.
However, there is no evidence to support the belief that these are from any world other than our own, and there is a wealth of evidence in existence to tell us that governments do have secrets, they do develop secret technology, they do lie about the technological capabilities they have...

All common sense and reason tells me that what people are seeing are not alien in origin, but man-made craft, top secret in nature, and probably developed from the masses of technological advances the Nazis were working on during WW2, and which we can reasonably assume were adopted by the USA (and potentially Russia too).

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
So how do you guys see UFO investigators overcoming this burden of proof against them? It seems even when they get video and photographic evidence, and reliable eyewitness testimony (from pilots, cops, military personnel, etc) - a lot of people just seem to write it all off as fake, and don't bother investigating or coming up with a good alternative explanation at times.

I can only speak for myself, but I tend to give more credence to reports which combine more than just one aspect. If there is a witness willing to state on record what they saw (or even better, more than one), and it's backed up by photographic/video evidence, and there's some kind of recorded physical manifestation of it, then of course I am more inclined to accept it.

But, in most cases that's not actually what happens. In most cases someone opens a YouTube account and uploads their one video of something, then sites start talking about it and every theorist in the world jumps in claiming it's "CONCLUSIVE PROOF!!!!"

The moment you point out that there's no supporting evidence for it, and what they have offered could easily be manufactured by anyone with an interest in doing so, they go off on rants about you being closed minded...

Even though there are thousands upon thousands of interesting videos and photos out there claiming to be something strange related to UFO's, only a handful of them have ever actually held my interest for more than 10 minutes, because there's absolutely nothing compelling about them and no reason to believe it isn't just another random hoaxer who had a clever idea while watching Signs for the 100th time

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Bloodydagger

Do I believe in life other than what's on this planet? Yes

Do I believe in abductions?
No

Do I believe we are being visited?
No

Am I open to changing my stance?
Yessir

I want it to be real---Just waiting for it to materialize.

Does really matter if anybody believe or not in abductions? Not quite, but they happened, a lot.

Multiple abductees at the same time, unexplained missing time, physical marks associated to the memories, physical traces on landings, multiple external witnesses, pretty recognizable pattern of events described by people that never meet each other, in times where the abduction phenomena wasn't widely known as today (no cable TV, no internet, no cellphones, no extensive bibliography on the subject).

Your alternative explanations are...?

Oh yeah, 'collective mind', 'sleep paralysis', 'dreams', 'lies', 'misinterpretations', 'unknown mental conditions'. Sureeee... you better wake up once for all.

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

You mean, your lack of it? You could give us your alternative explanations, specially in the close contact (abduction) phenomena. What's your take? Let's read it.

a reply to: AnuTyr

yea i didnt mean a letdown from you i meant sallas..i mean ren forest looked like a good case or sounded like it just as a example..then you had all these shnooks comin out like warren and peniston with his stupid ones and zeros just making the case look more blown out of proportion! yes i type extremely fast and use bad grammer but ill bet you in a few months people will be taking me more seriously.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well..thanx for the advise. i used to get crap from dave biendy about that all the time.. then brian dunning tried the whole proper grammer thing too till they found out who i was. you guys will see soon enough. hey maybee im just a crackpot with nothing better to do. but yes i thank you for the advise. people will take me seriously if i used certain words but thats not what i care for at this time. some of you will understnd soon enough what i mean. i figured out this whole ufo thing about a year ago i was 39 then and took over 20 years to figure out the truth and now i finally have it.. if your interested on what the truth is ill tell ya.. i just wanna see all the flames i get before this happens...

originally posted by: davetheskeptic
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well..thanx for the advise. i used to get crap from dave biendy about that all the time.. then brian dunning tried the whole proper grammer thing too till they found out who i was. you guys will see soon enough. hey maybee im just a crackpot with nothing better to do. but yes i thank you for the advise. people will take me seriously if i used certain words but thats not what i care for at this time. some of you will understnd soon enough what i mean. i figured out this whole ufo thing about a year ago i was 39 then and took over 20 years to figure out the truth and now i finally have it.. if your interested on what the truth is ill tell ya.. i just wanna see all the flames i get before this happens...

Well this is my 50th year of
being involved with the
'grand mystery'.

I'm always interested when
people proclaim they have
the Universe figured out
and give 3 examples.

I enjoy big personalities
and love to listen...hey
maybe I'll learn something.

;-)

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't need your advice though. And why would i say * maybe* when i know absolutely what i saw and have witnesses to it?

Im not trying to get famous, if i was i would tell people what they want to hear. Im not here to comfort people okay. Im not here to be a fake poser pretending i may or may not have seen what i have seen.

I could care less what people think about me and my experiences because i know they are true. And if they keep their inflated egos and smug attitudes about it thinking * Oh non of this is real blah blah blah* im hoping one day that these aliens will find them and torment them. That is my wish. So i don't need to win a popularity contest when real life monsters can do just so much better for my wants and needs.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't need your advice though. And why would i say * maybe* when i know absolutely what i saw and have witnesses to it?

Im not trying to get famous, if i was i would tell people what they want to hear. Im not here to comfort people okay. Im not here to be a fake poser pretending i may or may not have seen what i have seen.

I could care less what people think about me and my experiences because i know they are true. And if they keep their inflated egos and smug attitudes about it thinking * Oh non of this is real blah blah blah* im hoping one day that these aliens will find them and torment them. That is my wish. So i don't need to win a popularity contest when real life monsters can do just so much better for my wants and needs.

You don't need my advice.

But if you want to have conversations with people
and not just vent... you have to try and meet
them part way.

If you don't do that.. you may just as well
yell this stuff at your cat.

I'm trying to be a friend here...

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: davetheskeptic
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well..thanx for the advise. i used to get crap from dave biendy about that all the time.. then brian dunning tried the whole proper grammer thing too till they found out who i was. you guys will see soon enough. hey maybee im just a crackpot with nothing better to do. but yes i thank you for the advise. people will take me seriously if i used certain words but thats not what i care for at this time. some of you will understnd soon enough what i mean. i figured out this whole ufo thing about a year ago i was 39 then and took over 20 years to figure out the truth and now i finally have it.. if your interested on what the truth is ill tell ya.. i just wanna see all the flames i get before this happens...

Well this is my 50th year of
being involved with the
'grand mystery'.

I'm always interested when
people proclaim they have
the Universe figured out
and give 3 examples.

I enjoy big personalities
and love to listen...hey
maybe I'll learn something.

;-)

Kev

Kev, apologies for being totally off-topic and irrelevant, but why do you have such short linebreaks?

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: 321Go

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.

Exactly, I'm glad you can see my point, thanks.

You mean, your lack of it? You could give us your alternative explanations, specially in the close contact (abduction) phenomena. What's your take? Let's read it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't possibly give any explanations for what others think, feel and experience. I wasn't there at the time, so it would be totally speculative on my part.

a reply to: 321Go

Smartphone wraps strangely.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
This is the internet. This is an paranormal board for people who believe in the paranormal. I don't nessiarly have to conform to others desires except those of the T and C. You think you are acting like a friend but you're not.
Just because YOU are uncertain about what exists and have experienced does not mean THAT I am uncertain. Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

In this thread, i said aliens are real, i have seen them and described them. Not a * maybe* not a * Might have*. There is no uncertainty with this in my case because our experiences are different . If i wanted to conform to society i wouldn't be talking about this at all period. Society will conform to what is real, not the other way around. What is real will never conform to what society wants.

Hell you think people want relatives to die? Does it matter what people think ? Obviously not. Because real life dictates that what we want and think are not the same as reality. So trying to adjust what i say as a *Maybe* to conform to society is not in my best interests. Because one day i will die and either all this will matter or it won't but being a mirror of what society conforms as sanity isn't also in my best interests. Non of us alien contactees are normal by any standard. my beliefs are different than others. I say what i say and even though i read others oppinions and value critism as much as praise and relatability.

I am a realist in every sense of the word but i am also a black sheep. I hate what society stands for now, I dislike the greed in our culture, the arrogance of man in destroying our enviroment. The taint in religion and belief systems. And i am to conform with the likes of such groups? No. That's for the sheep to do and say as the sheep do and say.
Being a wolf, I am solitary other than my pack, who believe me without doubt. Like a lion with his harom, does he lay down with the wild beasts in peace? Or rip live stock to shreads? I am a predator. And as such my personality mirrors my existance. If people don't believe my warnings then that is their burden, not mine. The prophets of old didn't come preaching peace and kindness, They didn't say everything would be * Alright*. They put the fear of the lord into the population with doom and gloom because ultimately, Time will always end up in these stages.

Did the dinosaurs have a good time when the asteroid impact wiped them out? Did past human civilizations have a good time when the world froze over in ice age? Are there anicent societies today that can recount what happened event by event? No because they are all dead. That is the reality we live in. That is the reality we have been warned about. We call it * history * but its more like * destiny* than anything else.

I don't tell you to conform to what i want and believe in. I simply state what is and give my humble oppinion on the matter. Now i have a wall of text that anyone else reading on this board will simply dislike me for saying. But being straight up and cat footing around are 2 different things.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Okey doke. Message received!

Kev

a reply to: wmd_2008

Who said anything about using a telescope but may be at O'Hare if someone had we would know what it was.

We know what it was, it was a flying saucer. The occupants identity is the question. And at that close range, I doubt a telescope would be of any use at all. Maybe binoculars, though.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Some advice for you?

Put these words all over your posts:

apparently, possibly, maybe, what I apparently observed,
theoretically, my theory, my postulate, etc.
Then say all the same stuff.

That's what I do.

It shows that you are not insane, that you do understand
consensual reality, whether you fully agree with it or
not.

Then people will be more willing to talk with you.

I think AnuTyr is doing a fine job of speaking for himself. He is extremely well-informed and we can benefit from his experience and his experiences.

There is no "consensual reality", there is only reality. There may be agreed-upon perspectives or conventions within a given society, but even those are constantly shifting.
We learn new facts, new concepts and ideas emerge, and the reality of ten minutes ago no longer applies.
Pluto used to be a planet. The Apatosaurus used to be the Brontosaurus, they've been dead for 65 million years and their consensual reality is still in flux.

To appeal to "consensual reality" is an appeal to "the way people used to think".