Is Islam the Solution to the West's Deep Internal Malaise?

Ah Islam, the patriarchal vestige of a 6th century pedophilic warlord. A brutal, perversely ritualistic savagry that hasn't changed a lot in the 1300 or so years it's been around. Sorry guy, but being in charg of my own destiny sounds much better than having to submit to some misogynistic, child abusing, thought gestapo wizard in the sky.

Islam calls for the genital mutilation of children. It demands the death penalty for apostasy. Above all, it insists we don't question its supreme authority. Could you let a man cut the clitoris from your daughter? Could you forgive your sisters husband if he raped her? Could you kill your brother for expressing disbelief?

It's time for Islam, along with all other religious dogma, to be retired to history, so humanity can move on free of the discord it inevitably manifests.

originally posted by: mortisflash
Ah Islam, the patriarchal vestige of a 6th century pedophilic warlord. A brutal, perversely ritualistic savagry that hasn't changed a lot in the 1300 or so years it's been around. Sorry guy, but being in charg of my own destiny sounds much better than having to submit to some misogynistic, child abusing, thought gestapo wizard in the sky.

Islam calls for the genital mutilation of children. It demands the death penalty for apostasy. Above all, it insists we don't question its supreme authority. Could you let a man cut the clitoris from your daughter? Could you forgive your sisters husband if he raped her? Could you kill your brother for expressing disbelief?

It's time for Islam, along with all other religious dogma, to be retired to history, so humanity can move on free of the discord it inevitably manifests.

Religion-bashing is just a straw target set up by your masters, a target for the weak-minded to take potshots at, keeping them placated and looking for enemies in the wrong places. As long as you're focusing on religion, your eyes are off the real crooks in this world.

You've been duped, buddy, like most of the others in this thread. It's no surprise that atheists tend to be some of the most mediocre, insipid people I've come across. I guess everyone has to feel good about themselves somehow.

Just keep taking potshots at religion while your psychotic masters encroach just a little bit further every day. You are right where they want you. Good little slave.

a reply to: Drest

There are different levels of women's rights throughout the Muslim world. Turkey, for instance, is highly secular, and is nearly up to Western standards as far as women's rights are concerned.

I'm glad for these women. Are they allowed to go into the mosque to pray with the privileged menfolk, or must they stay outside to say their prayers as the middle eastern countries seem to require?

Why is it the women are required to remain outside? Do you know the justification? I've never really understood that particular lunacy. This is a serious question btw. It's hard to imagine going to church with a man, your husband, then stopped at the door, and told you are unable to go inside because of your gender. I'm afraid I might have some kind of hissy fit.

...Of course, I can't begin to imagine an American man who would tolerate that type of prejudicial gender exclusion against his wife, or daughters.

a reply to: Drest

The forces we submit to, are the ones that rule over us.I feel one of the lessons Islam has to offer us, is to do with idolatry.The malaise you mention, is the symptom of the way some choose their priorities.I'm for freedom of choice, I don't think Western cultures would embrace any kind of modern theocracy in the future.The risks from ones beliefs instead of behavior forming the basis of law are too great.Besides, I feel true believers are willing to let the Almighty judge or realize that the system is setup so everyone will have to face the consequences of their actions sooner or later.Faith in principles over appearances, you know?

Well *yawn* bedtime around here, but it is an interesting thread, no matter how far from reality it might be.

Just remember Drest, that although we bitch and complain a lot about our country, we actually do like the way we've designed it for the most part, and basically enjoy our creation. It's home.

Outsiders would be up against armies to try and change it, and I mean that both literally and figuratively. It's shocking how patriotic we can be when our freedoms are challenged.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Drest

There are different levels of women's rights throughout the Muslim world. Turkey, for instance, is highly secular, and is nearly up to Western standards as far as women's rights are concerned.

I'm glad for these women. Are they allowed to go into the mosque to pray with the privileged menfolk, or must they stay outside to say their prayers as the middle eastern countries seem to require?

Why is it the women are required to remain outside? Do you know the justification? I've never really understood that particular lunacy. This is a serious question btw. It's hard to imagine going to church with a man, your husband, then stopped at the door, and told you are unable to go inside because of your gender. I'm afraid I might have some kind of hissy fit.

...Of course, I can't begin to imagine an American man who would tolerate that type of prejudicial gender exclusion against his wife, or daughters.

I suppose it would depend on the masjid, but women are allowed to pray inside the mosque. There's no canon law saying otherwise. Typically, though, they are supposed to sit in a seperate area from the men.

Why do they sit seperately? Because it's distracting for both genders to pray in close proximity to each other. Men and women have a tendency to act differently when they are around the oppsite gender, it's just a fact of life. So the reason is to help keep focus on the prayers, I suppose.

Why do you have seperate boys and girls private schools? For the same reason. Are all-boys and all-girls schools also "sexist"?

Also, I don't know why everyone in this thread instantly assumed I am a Muslim. It's been quite entertaining, but have you ever thought I could just be knowledgable about the religion?

All we would have to offer, in our submission is "earth and water". . . . .

originally posted by: beezzer
All we would have to offer, in our submission is "earth and water". . . . .

Beezer, you should carefully consider what Islam has to offer. I've seen your posts, and it's clear you are dissatisfied with the way things are running these days.

Christianity has been defanged, it has lost its potency.

Islam is still a force in the world, it has the power to enact change, change that can benefit everyone and set things straight.

The West is a stagnant pool, the water is murky and brown. The muck has been slowly building over the years, there has been no real change. The murky bureaucracy, the corruption, the inefficiency- the water is dirty.

But Islam could be a flood that washes away the old stagnant water, and fills the pool with clear, fresh, transparent liquid. We can drink of that fresh water.

Think about it.

originally posted by: Drest


But Islam could be a flood that washes away the old stagnant water, and fills the pool with clear, fresh, transparent liquid.

Hydrofluoric Acid?

So, I'll ask again: in which country do you reside?

a reply to: Drest

I could write a book about what is wrong with the US.

But of all the answers, Islam, a Caliphate here in the US, is not one of them.

Too many people already want to destroy the Constitution. I would never be a party to that, would never endorse any actions for that.

I'm no billy-bad-ass. Just a quiet, unassuming regular guy. But if cornered, I'd make anyone earn their pound of flesh.

So, um. . . nope. Not even something I'd ever entertain.

originally posted by: Drest

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

My point is capable of defending or even discussing Muslim actions without slamming Christians

They are sibling religions. One can't really separate the two if one is going to discuss "religions".
You seem to have mastered the plate juggling that is condemning ALL Muslims (many of whom live peacefully and moderately, and many of those are here on ATS) though, while ignoring not only the good things some of them do (like Malala, for one, and like the American Muslims who stepped up to help rebuild a Christian church recently for another [oh wait, I used Muslims interacting with Christians, so that's probably out of bounds, too])

Fix your own team before blanketly condemning another, please. What a hateful post - and yet you felt compelled to twist the OP into a Christian slamming thread? Not just once, but TWICE!

The OP was very well written, but utterly unconvincing. Your posts in it are off topic and malicious in every way.

Why is it unconvincing, can you please explain in more depth?

I know it's jarring to be taken out of your comfort zone, but a rational look at the West today reveals a striking hypocrisy, as others have mentioned.

Just looking at our rates of consumption alone destroys the argument of Western moral superiority. You want to keep your (unsustainable) lifestyles while choking the environment and living off third world slave labor, and then preach to me about how wrong I am and how righteous your society is?

I have to reply to this statement from God's point of view. He looks down on the planet earth and sees people, whom he created. What is the East Vs. West stuff? It doesn't make any sense if a person truly understands the will of God, who wishes for all humans to serve him regardless of race or nationality, united. (1 Timothy 2:4)

Jesus himself stated "My kingdom is no part of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest" (John 18:36)

The point is, when you start getting involved in politics, or supporting one nation over another, or one race over another, or fighting wars, then you are working opposite to what God has willed. Your playing into the hands of the "other side" which God has allowed to rule the earth for a short time.

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him. "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So worship me and it will be yours. Jesus answered, "It is written, 'worship the Lord your God and serve him only" (Luke 4:5-8)

So tell me, if the devil could offer all the governments of the earth to Jesus, who do you think influences the governments? Who is it that pits East Vs. West, black against white against Arab etc., Muslim against Christian etc. Who causes the wars behind the scenes? It certainly isn't God!!!!

originally posted by: TheChrome
who do you think influences the governments? Who is it that pits East Vs. West, black against white against Arab etc., Muslim against Christian etc. Who causes the wars behind the scenes? It certainly isn't God!!!!

...or is it?




Well obviously it's not, it's humans, because I'm an "atheist with a masturbation addiction" apparently...

a reply to: Drest

Islam is still a force in the world, it has the power to enact change, change that can benefit everyone and set things straight.

Clearly there are those inside Islam that doing it wrong. Maybe you should start by them ?



Peace

a reply to: Drest

We have guys like Averroes translating the works of Aristotle, and that knowledge actually filtering back into Europe from the Arab world.

Since you try to referring to the Islamic Golden Ages why you do not mentioning the following. I will re-post a quote from an old post of mine.

Earlier Cultural Influence : Christians (particularly Nestorian Christians) contributed to the Arab Islamic Civilization during the Ummayad and the Abbasid periods by translating works of Greek philosophers to Syriac and afterwards to Arabic.[17][18][19]

Source





Peace

Who says 'the west has a deep internal malaise'?...and what does it have to do with religion?

Å99

The trouble for Islam is that it cannot stand up to logic and always have to be the only ideology to work. When confronted with Taoism or Buddhism it falls apart since every line in the Quran is questioned without faith and when it is you see the illogical and therefore Islam have to use violence or brainwashing to exist.

Put 2 countries with exact the same resources (both material and number of people) that are Islam ideology and Buddhist ideology and let them evolve on their own without outside influence. Scientifically the Buddhist will win since Islam will not be able to examine the reality that is opposed to the view of Islam. That is why Islam is an Idolizing blinding view who will never reach true objective knowledge of everything on all levels of creation.

Always question and you will find out things (Seek and you shall find). You might even break thru the veil and experience what the spiritual world is like yourself and be able to make up your own mind on what it is.

a reply to: Drest

Hey sounds great...

"I'll convert", said no one ever.

When Hell Freezes over dude, I'd rather be put to the sword with the rest of the non-believers.

soundcloud.com...


Majesty is all around us.
Celebrate, rejoice and love.
We are people. Life is awesome

]

originally posted by: Drest
Christianity has been defanged, it has lost its potency.

No it has not. The West has become largely secular where religion and the state are separate. Christianity is in its place and no longer interferes with society by dictating how people should live. People are free to follow whatever belief system they chose rather than being dictated to by “their betters” and the moral police.

originally posted by: Drest
Islam is still a force in the world, it has the power to enact change, change that can benefit everyone and set things straight.

Islam is only a force in societies where adherence to the faith is compulsory. Like all religion it is not a power for change, but rather a pressure for no change. When we look at countries where Islam is predominant we see societies that – in the context of the West – are less advanced. For example, women’s rights are poor, social freedoms are limited, poor levels of political freedoms etc…

originally posted by: Drest
The West is a stagnant pool, the water is murky and brown. The muck has been slowly building over the years, there has been no real change. The murky bureaucracy, the corruption, the inefficiency- the water is dirty.

You have summed up most Muslim nations. In fact, I live in the liberal and secular West and glad of that fact.

Question. Do you live in the West?

a reply to: Drest

For all your criticism of western society and christianity, you forget that some of the problems the west faces such as financial corruption etc etc are against what christianity supposedly teaches.

What makes me laugh with your answers is simply that you are so focused on criticising western/christianity and people who have examined their religious beliefs, found them lacking in common sense, let alone truth so have left them behind as redundant. You don't seem to be able to answer any of the points raised against islam - in fact even retreating to ask if people assume you are a muslim, its actually a joke!

How about some answers especially to the questions raised by Mortisflash - every one relevant to people looking at islam and rejecting it because of its attitudes to these unhealthy and bigoted practices - which a civilised society has already focused on, rejected and moved on from. Islam drags people backwards virtually into feudal times, especially with its attitudes to keeping women ignorant and in some countries trying to deny them even education. Its true that arabic knowledge was leading the world before islam slammed it back into the dark ages and in all the time since conversion, these nations have never caught up. Why would you think that people in the West, despite our problems, would wish to go backwards and submit to a lot of religious fanatics - there is nothing to be gained and more to be lost.
But I dare you answer Mortisflash's questions I look forward to reading what you have to say - especially as you have 'studied' or claim to have islam.