Armed 'citizen guards' at US military offices told to stand down

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
You don't actually consider yourself an open minded free thinking intellectual do you????

Well.... the intellectual element comes down to personal perspective, I suppose.

But can you honestly tell me you support a person having access to firearms when there not even capable of handling one without accidentally discharging it in public.... lol

If you talk to people that know guns, and have handled them for many years, such as ballistics experts, you would know that it isn't a matter of if a gun will accidentally go off, but when. Sometimes, misfires just happen, even to professionals.

Oh.... well that's obviously a perfectly rational solid argument to support open carry laws

First off, thevagabond, really? Cause one over trained and under utilized recruiter goes off the rails all military personnel should be on a shock collar?!?!

The mental health of our military personnel is atrocious but that is a pretty serious generalization there big feller...


And just to play devils advocate, this guy could of had a mechanical failure, my father had 2 negligent discharges in the same day upland bird hunting. He had been using the same gun for 15 years and all of a sudden when the got got jolted with the safe on and cocked it would fire. A very small chip had broken off of the sear where it makes contact and comepletely degraded its ability to hold the gun from going off. Just saying, it's possible.

And this is what laws are for people, there's lots on the books regarding this already. Your allowed to take your gun to legal places like this man did BUT a negligent discharge shows something is wrong and some sort of investigation (even a half assed glance) should take place. If it was an agrevious enough of an action then he could possibly lose his gun rights.

This is like saying "hey that one guy poached a deer, WE SHOULD BAN HUNTING!!!"

No you should punish the person responsible and let everyone learn and move on. Simple as that.

I watched the news report of the Ohio Man. I'm all for gun rights, but he looked stupid. His belly bulged and every chance he got to look like a hardass he took. And he had a fat buddy with him, purposely shifting his shotgun and standing like a British Royal Gaurd. Was hilarious.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
You don't actually consider yourself an open minded free thinking intellectual do you????

Well.... the intellectual element comes down to personal perspective, I suppose.

But can you honestly tell me you support a person having access to firearms when there not even capable of handling one without accidentally discharging it in public.... lol

If you talk to people that know guns, and have handled them for many years, such as ballistics experts, you would know that it isn't a matter of if a gun will accidentally go off, but when. Sometimes, misfires just happen, even to professionals.

And I thought guns were 100% safe and never "shoot" people its only people that kill not guns?

For the record I have had my shotgun for a few years and its doesn't fire on its own. But maybes that cause I have the sense to keep in extremely good condition?

a reply to: crazyewok

Like I said in the post above, it can happen. My father was extremely meticulous about keeping his gun in order. There's always the amazingly rare metal default that is a given in all manufacturing processes. I was told by a major manufacturer of some of the most expensive and top shelf guns that 1 in 1000 will show anomalous issues and its 1 in 100 of those guns with issues that show a major mechanical issue that needs fixing. So pretty rare but still possible.

I'm not trying to cover for these guys, in fact most of these guys that went out to protect recruiters are the kind of people that shouldn't be handling firearms in the first place. Here's a quote from Dom raso's Instagram this morning.

"About to get some reps in this morning. Switching over from live to training mode is something you should NEVER get complacent with... I've seen some bad ish happen and its all because the person got comfortable. If you have been training for years and your feel "comfortable" when handling firearms, it's time to check yourself. This is not a lifestyle of comfort, luxury, and ignorance. This is a lifestyle of awareness, responsibility, accountability, and discipline"

I couldn't agree with Dom more, guns can be plenty of fun but always remember what they are for, at the end of the day it's a tool for taking life. Get complacent poking holes in paper and you could be soon reminded just how deadly a gun really is.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: seagull

Yeah fair enough, the drunk part is pure assumption. But come on... not even the most passionate gun rights advocate can deny it takes an extreme kind of incompetence to 'accidentally' discharge a round in public.

Sure, unless of course it was done deliberately to bring an end to the 'guards' so as not to start a trend...just saying.

It's a liability issue. One of those guys goes off and injures or kills a citizen and the liability falls on the recruitment center. There's no way they could be allowed to stay there and do that. I'm surprised it didn't happen the minute the guys showed up.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I voted for bush and when the war in Iraq started I joined the marines and asked for the infantry. I know what I'm talking about because I learned in the real world. Please tell me more about how anything I didn't get from Fox news is empty partisanship. I also appreciate that two paragraphs is long winded to you. Too many soundbytes and not enough learning for yourself has made your mind lazy. I'll speak Fox for you:
"Danger! Extremists! People dead! More to come! NIMBY!!!"

originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
It's a liability issue. One of those guys goes off and injures or kills a citizen and the liability falls on the recruitment center. There's no way they could be allowed to stay there and do that. I'm surprised it didn't happen the minute the guys showed up.

Since the recruitment centres have not contracted or otherwise employed those citizen guards, they would bear absolutely zero liability if an accident of some kind resulted from the citizens being there...the citizens themselves would be liable, and of course, it is their choice to take that risk.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well, we had a few guys doing this locally where I live without incident.

What's your point? I've seen professional marksmen accidentally discharge a weapon, I've seen professional martial artists knock out someone while meaning to miss completely during a demonstration, I've seen professional race car drivers get into car crashes, I've seen professional chefs serve undercooked chicken, I've seen English teachers use incorrect grammar--the list can go on and on.

Putting the village idiot on display does not mean that the entire village is made of the same caliber (no pun intended) of people.

I think your "lol x 1000 times over" should be directed at the pentagon's assertion that they can protect our military--it's getting increasingly obvious that they cannot.

a reply to: The Vagabond

As someone with 18 years in the military I take issue with your we are all mad dogs point of view.

You were marine infantry... And your going to paint everyone in every mos, and every branch based off your infantry time...

Are you high... Try using your head for more than a hat rack. Marine infantry is a very small slice of the armed forces, and hardly represent us all.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I've seen professional race car drivers get into car crashes,

Which is why professional car races take place in designated areas.

I've seen professional chefs serve undercooked chicken

Which is why consumer regulations exist, that give the consumer the right to send back his meal, if he is unsatisfied.

I've seen English teachers use incorrect grammar

Which is why newspapers have editors, to double check and make sure there's no mistakes in grammer.

The list can go on... right back at ya mate.

Basic regulations are just a common sense policy, within a civilized society.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Ah yes the isolated incident argument. Of course we've stacked up tens of thousands of isolated incidents by all forces.
Do you really suggest that the same government giving the same orders to people selected according to the same criteria and using the same hardware has different results based on the insignia somebody wears? It goes further than the military- the government can't seem to arm and train ANYONE without an infamous wave of murders following close behind. You'd have to be insane to want US servicemen with hot weapons on your block. You can say your politics are whatever, but lets face it, when they set up a check point at the end of your street, you're bringing your kids inside aren't you?

“Visit the Navy-Yard, and behold a marine, such a man as an American government can make, or such as it can make a man with its black arts" - Henry David Thoreau

a reply to: The Vagabond

Ahh deflection... You said all vets should have shock callers based on your time in the military ... Get called on it now blame the govt.

As far as servicemen on my block with weapons... If they aren't guard it's illegal at this time....

I've gone shooting with other vets, gotten drunk with still others and no violent rampages have occurred.

So again 18 years military service here, I've never chased someone with a weapon... Nor am I medicated for public safety.

Why not admit your initial statement was a wild exaggeration.

a reply to: Irishhaf

You fail to see the connection between the government and people trained by the government? Really?

And yes, it is illegal - they aren't even trusted to guard their own recruiting centers. Why is that? Why does the government seem to agree with me that it's not safe to have government trained men armed around people who you don't want dead?

It's nice that you and a few people you know claim to have never lost your tempers. Of course maybe there was that one time that doesn't count because you really feel like the other guy started it. How would I know? But what is that small sample against the pattern in the whole?

a reply to: MysterX

Oh, if only tort law worked that simply.