Armed 'citizen guards' at US military offices told to stand down

a reply to: SubTruth

Do people cut themselves with knives or have car accidents.

Yeah, I cut myself quite a few times with a knife when I was a kid, but then my dad taught me to always cut away from my body and I haven't cut myself since. I also smashed my car up twice when I was young, because I demanded more from my vehicle than it could handle, but then I learnt to only push my vehicle as hard as it could handle... Do you comprehend what I'm getting at here?

The more dangerous a tool or machine is, the more training and/or regulations there should be to ensure a person uses it correctly.... How could anyone argue against that logic?

a reply to: Ironhawke

No, you just violated the right. The right isn't granted with the stipulation of a safety class. While I believe it's important for firearm owners and every owner should take a safety class, it should never be a condition of ownership. Rights should never be conditional.

Police have plenty of negligent discharges all the time , you can look them upon you tube . So should we disarm them as well?

a reply to: EternalSolace

Actually, if I recall correctly, the right comes with being part of a well-regulated militia. But hey, say you're right. Since we have the right to free travel, driving lessons, licenses and required training and certifications are a violation and should immediately be done away with. That oughtta make the morning commute much more interesting.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I don't believe I actually did attempt to group anyone together. I'm just pointing out that this guy made a complete fool of himself and did a huge injustice for people who advocate 'everyone' having the right to bear arms, even without any formal training.

And it never occurred to you that this might have been the goal?

originally posted by: Ironhawke
a reply to: EternalSolace

Actually, if I recall correctly, the right comes with being part of a well-regulated militia. But hey, say you're right. Since we have the right to free travel, driving lessons, licenses and required training and certifications are a violation and should immediately be done away with. That oughtta make the morning commute much more interesting.

This is potentially going off topic about debating constitutional rights, but I'll engage for a moment. What well-regulated militia do you suppose can form without an armed citizenry? Further, the last time I checked drivers licenses, CDLs, and different training requirements do not infringe upon the right of free travel.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Try driving without 'em. As for the militia, part of "well-regulated" is "well-trained". This would involve testing and licencing. I, for one, prefer to live in a world where it's more difficult for some idiot who has zero clue what he's doing to shoot 18 people because they looked at 'im funny. Would make it a #&!! of a lot easier to spot the mythical "good guy with a gun".

originally posted by: JHumm
Police have plenty of negligent discharges all the time , you can look them upon you tube . So should we disarm them as well?

Whats that you say? The police acting negligently? Never!!! I simply don't believe you.

lol, on a serious note though... police behavior is hardly a good example of what a civilized society should strive to imitate.

originally posted by: seagull

(probably half drunk, no doubt)

You've proof of this, of course... Or is it just your little add on to further "prove" your point?

Well it's either that or he's retarded.

Can't see a sane sober guy accidentally fireing off rounds outside a military base.

originally posted by: JHumm
Police have plenty of negligent discharges all the time , you can look them upon you tube . So should we disarm them as well?

Worked for the police in Britain

When did the military have any authority to tell civilians what to do? Last time that I heard that they could was when martial law has been declared. They are on civilian property not a military installation. As long as they don't enter the offices they have nothing to say where civies can be. Where's the posse comitatus guys?

a reply to: Ironhawke

Driving is not a right.

Well trained... as in basic military tactics. And if you want to get down to the technicalities, you should note the use of "a" instead of "the" before well-regulated. This is important because it was a generalized statement. "A well-regulated militia" is an indefinite article. It only means that A well regulated militia is necessary. Not that the well regulated militia is necessary. Since militia service is voluntary, the well regulation is also voluntary. How does a voluntary militia form? By armed citizens.

The typical well regulated argument doesn't work. It's why the feds can't really crack down or prevent militia groups from forming... like the Arkansas Defence Force.

I'll leave it at that because this isn't really a thread to debate consitutionality.

Love if a time machine was invented and the 2nd amendment queation was put before the founding fathers and they were squabbling over it back then too .

Hell it likely only in cause they copied most the bill of rights from the British bill of rights .

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

If the government wanted the armed citizens gone from the recruiting offices, all they needed to do was dispatch an undercover FBI agent to one of the locations posing as an armed citizen looking to guard the facility. The agent fires one round into the ground outside.... voila'.... all the reason the government needs to shoo the citizens away.

It is a possibilty.

a reply to: Ironhawke

Most people who are gun owners are well trained. In particular devoted hobbyists. I can take down my firearms in seconds, probably as fast as any military type can theirs. why? I'm very well trained. How? Gee, from a very young age I've been around firearms and know quite a lot about 'em. ...and there are people who have knowledge that dwarf mine.

There are some of course, that aren't. They are the exception.

a reply to: crazyewok

Probably neither.

Accidents do happen. You know that, right?

Accidents happen to people who are sober. Accidents happen to people who aren't retarded, too.

Now, he could indeed be an idiot...won't argue that, can't really, because I don't know him. Do you?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: seagull

(probably half drunk, no doubt)

You've proof of this, of course... Or is it just your little add on to further "prove" your point?

Well it's either that or he's retarded.

Can't see a sane sober guy accidentally fireing off rounds outside a military base.

Then you have the Navy recruiter who shot himself in the leg at his recruiting office in Gainesville GA.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
You don't actually consider yourself an open minded free thinking intellectual do you????

Well.... the intellectual element comes down to personal perspective, I suppose.

But can you honestly tell me you support a person having access to firearms when there not even capable of handling one without accidentally discharging it in public.... lol

If you talk to people that know guns, and have handled them for many years, such as ballistics experts, you would know that it isn't a matter of if a gun will accidentally go off, but when. Sometimes, misfires just happen, even to professionals.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Been there done that. It surprises the Hell out of you. ...and can be very scary.

That's why you are very careful about where you've got 'em pointed.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Can't see a sane sober guy accidentally fireing off rounds outside a military base.

Those in the below videos might disagree with that...