BREAKING: Hartford Consensus: "Majority of Sandy Hook injuries were survivable."

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I think it's germane to include that the first officers on scene waited 5 minutes before entering the school.
There was another 5 minute wait inside near the office during which the sounds of gunfire were still being heard.
Thats 10 minutes right there and there was even more elapsed time before any of the victims were even triaged.
In fact one of the officers took pictures in one room before checking the victims.
By their own admission... all the above is in the final report.

Perhaps they were simply following orders.

Whose orders?
Answer that and you win the daily double.

#698

a reply to: syrinx high priest

But ground zero of the response is this: not one single NPD officer, upon discovering this was a mass casualty incident, notified dispatch.

Had dispatch been notified when protocol required him to be (the moment officers saw the dozens of additional wounded), a mass casualty response would have been initiated much earlier; in theory, Nute and the EMS commander would have immediately done things like control the ambulance route, notify mutual aid, CMED, and air ambulances. All of this ABSOLUTELY was supposed to happen - it is standard protocol ANY time you have patients in these numbers.

Instead, literal radio silence for 30 long minutes, a silence which was broken not by a law enforcement officer, but by an EMT receiving the information second hand from a state police officer.

Many other aspects can be debated--what exact time regional ambulances arrived, what happened in the north hall at 9:46:54, whether Life Star was called--but what cannot be debated is that 1) NPD never told dispatch this was an MCI, as protocol mandated and 2) no public official to date has addressed this fact.

You can have the most gifted first responders and trauma care in the world, but it hardly matters if no one tells them they're needed until victims have been bleeding for a solid 30 minutes, and startled regional assets will then not be able to get there for another 17-30 minutes minimum.

a reply to: TheWhiteKnight

Officers charged that school as best they could; one of them immediately tackled a man outside thought to have a weapon. That officer didn't wait one second - he hit the ground running. His colleagues charged the front door but were being fired upon (something the official story omits in its summary and headlines, but makes evident in the officers' individual reports).

If you line up all the 911 calls, as well as the dashcam video, you will find sections missing--sometimes as short as 1 second--which can only be accounted for as missing audio. (In other words, a 1 second video redaction is too short to account for anything other than a redacted LAW rocket whizzing by, and can only mean that what is being redacted is the audio of a late gunshot).

It's quite chilling to line this media up on a timeline (I use Vegas), and see where States Atty Stephen Sedensky has made his purposeful removals of evidence, at the exact same timepoints, across multiple records.

a reply to: Zephyranth

I've been to the school. I live near it. its at the end of a skinny road. The word spread fast, I'm sure it was pure chaos there with parents showing up and local responders. My wife called me about the shooting before it was on the news. My kids school got put into a lockdown that day.

I don't know what you are getting on about other than it was a horrible tragic shooting. If its anything nefarious, count me out, I get to worked up over that

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Not nefarious until after the fact.

Officers meant well, up to a point. At some point, things went bad inside the school, and whatever officers were addressing caused them to either purposely or negligently fail to make the single, most important radio transmission of the day: simply telling Bob Nute that there were not two, but 27 down.

The entire story revolves around that failure.

It may be distasteful to point out deadly mistakes; but it's not NEARLY as distasteful as failing to point out those mistakes, thereby making it more likely that parents in the future will have to buy tiny coffins.

Mistakes are heartbreaking and embarrassing and even career-destroying to admit, but NONE of those things are more important than a child's life.

Look - if those mistakes had not been made by NPD, something like half or more of those children could still be celebrating birthdays, Christmases, new school years, graduation, marriages, children of their own.

I hope that puts it into perspective.

This is not my information; this comes directly from the Hartford Consensus, a congress of surgeons and medical trauma professionals who concluded that MOST of the children had survivable wounds.

There is only ONE good thing that can happen with this horrific information, and that is for those responsible to step up and acknowledge what went wrong so that more children do not bleed to death unnecessarily from survivable wounds.

Those law enforcement officers swore an oath, and it was not to protect their careers over the lives of children--either the ones who bled to death for an hour under their watch, or those in the future who could be saved by the truth.

It is a horrible, gut-wrenching situation; the saddest thing, perhaps, is that all of America would have instantly forgiven the mistakes made if those making them had simply been honest. No one would really have blamed anyone but the shooter, in the end.

I missed this the first time around... kind of wish I missed it now...

As far as them admit they screwed the pooch... will never happen, the people responsible for the failures will never be punished as they should.

yea I need a stiff drink after reading that...

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I missed this the first time around... kind of wish I missed it now...

As far as them admit they screwed the pooch... will never happen, the people responsible for the failures will never be punished as they should.

yea I need a stiff drink after reading that...

It is an incredibly sad situation. But, as we know in human history, tragic things happen, and often we have no control. We DO have control over how we react to tragedies, and use absolutely everything we have to use the knowledge to prevent or lessen future tragedies.

Columbine itself was utterly horrific, but the families' response to it has become a shining example of people turning their own pain into a generous outpouring of help for future families. It was Columbine victims' families, themselves, who guaranteed that something like 30,000 pages of documents be made available to the public to help everyone learn how to respond better to tragedies.

They didn't get there easily - they had to fight hard for those documents. But they got there.

We need the same effort for Sandy Hook.

a reply to: Zephyranth

Sounds like phsyops to me if they can get people accepting this then it means they will accept the offical story that all those kids did die as claimed.

If these kids did get shot at and hit as claimed then as described to me my an ex vietnam vet there would nothing left of them anyway due to their small size and the alledged high power of the weapon used.

Given this I'm not so sure how the docs comeup with bleeding out.

Apparently if we are to beleive one video or statement from someone alledgedy at the school at the time, the kids were all told to huddle in the corner of one room. If this is what happend, then for a start, why make it easy for shooter by telling the kids to huddle together? The would have only increase the likelyhood of a higer kill rate.

If the kids were all told to run and hide where ever they could, then the likelyhood of some of the kids being only injured and not shot and killed escalates so the docs would have a better arguement.

Sounds like a furphy to me.

.223 goes straight through; the smaller/skinnier the victim, the more so.

US soldiers complain that .223 doesn't work in Somalia/Afghanistan for that reason (sickeningly sad, but true). Bullet goes straight through, doesn't tumble, leaves neat in-and-out hole. Just as Dr. Wayne Billups stated re Sandy Hook, "Most children had wounds that were not immediately lethal."

.223 AR is not "high power." No offense intended.

Keep in mind we are talking about wounds to the extremities, in almost all cases.

Only two children had head shots; unfortunately at least one of those likely came from police, not the perp.

Police shot a child as he ran out of classroom 10; the shock of that development led to police failing to notify dispatch of the staggering number of wounded. As a result, no additional ambulances would be called (only 2 were dispatched) until 10:03 a.m.; by that point, victims had been bleeding for half an hour. By the time regional ambulances finally arrived, children and teachers had been hemorrhaging for a full 60 minutes; the Golden Hour, as it is referred to in medical circles, was gone. To make matters worse, the only ambulance route was by then fully blocked by parent and state police vehicles. This is the impetus for the official coverup of Sandy Hook, which at its root is a colossal liability case.

Ok, so now telling the truth, or at least your opinion is banned from ATS? Fine, Sandy Hook clearly happened exactly as the government told us it did, give up your guns, or you are responsible for the murder of the children.

originally posted by: Zephyranth
.223 goes straight through; the smaller/skinnier the victim, the more so.

US soldiers complain that .223 doesn't work in Somalia/Afghanistan for that reason (sickeningly sad, but true). Bullet goes straight through, doesn't tumble, leaves neat in-and-out hole. Just as Dr. Wayne Billups stated re Sandy Hook, "Most children had wounds that were not immediately lethal."

.223 AR is not "high power." No offense intended.

Keep in mind we are talking about wounds to the extremities, in almost all cases.

Only two children had head shots; unfortunately at least one of those likely came from police, not the perp.

A 62 grain jacketed hollow point bullet leaving the muzzle at 3000 feet per second is certainly high powered, and will leave a gaping would in anything it hits.

He fired 156 shots, multiple hits per victim.

Where do you get off saying a 223 Remington is not a high powered round? There's not an animal on this continent that can't be killed by it.

You know nothing about firearms, why bother posting on the subject?

btw it's not called .223 AR call it a 223 Remington or 5.56 x 45.

The rounds used by the shooter were manufactured in 2009 by Sellier and Bellot and they were SOFT POINT rounds (not full metal jacket rounds, as claimed by hoaxers). The crime scene photos clearly illustrates the rounds are soft point, expanding bullets, as indicated by the lead point at the front.

Ever seen what happens to a coyote hit by one of these? puts a hole in them big enough to stick your fist into.

Link

a reply to: D8Tee

I get where you are coming from in saying that the .223 is a high powered round, but I think it depends on what you are talking about. Compared to a .50BMG its nothing.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: D8Tee

I get where you are coming from in saying that the .223 is a high powered round, but I think it depends on what you are talking about. Compared to a .50BMG its nothing.

The term "high-powered" is jargon. There is no established definition for either "high-powered" or "low-powered." Hence the terms are meaningless nonsense.

Did you ever hear of a "low powered rifle"?

a reply to: D8Tee

.22, or a BB, or a potato gun.

Nerf guns?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: D8Tee

.22, or a BB, or a potato gun.

Nerf guns?

The jurisdiction I live in, anything over 495 feet per second is considered a firearm.

High powered pellet guns require a firearms license.

a reply to: D8Tee

Did you just use the much hated "High-powered" jargon, to describe a pellet gun?

Its a slippery slide.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: D8Tee

Did you just use the much hated "High-powered" jargon, to describe a pellet gun?

Its a slippery slide.

Aye, but with pellet guns it's applicable.

Anything over 495 feet per second in an air rifle, the terminology is indeed high-powered.

Lewis and Clark took big bore pneumatic rifles with them on their journey to the Pacific.

Once again they are becoming popular as small game rifles.