BREAKING: Hartford Consensus: "Majority of Sandy Hook injuries were survivable."

Finally. Saddest thing ever.

The [Hartford Consensus Group], a division of the American College of Surgeons, found that a majority of fatalities in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Conn., had bled to death.

"A lot of these children's injuries were not immediately lethal," Dr. William A. Billups, a surgeon at Anderson and Rush said. "The reason they died is because they bled out."

www.meridianstar.com...

And from an article published only yesterday:

[Deputy Portsmouth Fire Chief James] Heinz said...one of the lessons learned from the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was that some victims bled out while a SWAT team had control of the school building.

www.fosters.com...

a reply to: Zephyranth

That is just achingly sad.

One would hope that this information leads to changes in situation management, where evac teams are sent in behind the SWAT, to clear any areas already under SWAT control, of casualties before this sort of outcome repeats itself.

That cannot possibly do anything to assuage the massive, unthinkable pain that was scattered throughout the community when that school came under attack.

How bloody dreadful.

a reply to: Zephyranth

Safety to the officers is there 1st priority.

a reply to: Zephyranth

Wow that is heart wrenching. I understand the reason why paramedics aren't permitted and shouldn't be expected to enter an area, particularly a confined space like a building, until it has been cleared of threats but it would seem that among the SWAT team, there should be a few members that have medical training enough to administer life sustaining aid in the interim.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Great post, and it seems that as a result of mass shooting incidents, training has evolved:

www.policemag.com...

And thus the cover-up began; the false stories of looking for a second shooter, Dickinson drive being hopelessly blocked, Dr Wayne Carvers bizarre press conference etc. This is pretty damning, I guess they got to see the post-mortem photos and autopsy reports. No life flight helicopters called, EMT's not allowed in the school waiting frustrated outside.

This looks very bad on both the part of Newtown PD and the Connecticut State Police.

The first EMT's to examine any of the victims did not do so for at least 15 minutes after the shooter was down.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

No, it's safety for the other first responders and casualties.

It's a very terrible situation to be in for everyone involved, but if you have a bunch of first responders treating the injured before the area is secure, someone could double back and take them all out or detonate a bomb.

There need to be changes, but they shouldn't have been expected to function perfectly in a situation they'd probably never even imagined before.

I would like to see a contingent of better trained EMS and essentially body guards for them follow in SWAT in the future. Seems like that's the best way to deal with it.

This is just heartbreaking news to read. I can't even imagine the fear those children went through, or the pain their loved ones will learning about this. Freaking horrifying.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Zephyranth

Safety to the officers is there 1st priority.

Not in a mass shooter incident.
Protocol is engage the shooter ASAP to save lives.
You do not wait for backup (which Newtown PD did)

This came out LAST DECEMBER?
Nobody is raising hell about it?
It was a special study group from the American College of Surgeons that made this statement.
Is this why there was a rush to pay victims families??
($280,000 to each victims family, $20,000 to the families of those who were witnesses)

This is really, really disturbing.
When people initially wanted to ask questions we were told we were being insensitive to the families. being disrespectful, calling people actors - I'm sure most of you recall that drama.

"A lot of these children's injuries were not immediately lethal," Dr. William A. Billups, a surgeon at Anderson and Rush said. "The reason they died is because they bled out."

There were as many police on scene after the shooter was found as there were victims.
There was no reason so many of them should have bled to death.

Which particulars are they lying about though?
Once again the OS is proven false and conspiracy theorists vindicated.
Congrats to those who never gave in or gave up.
The social pressure was enormous to leave Sandy Hook alone and not insist on better answers than what we were given.
TBH it was the one thing that seriously made me consider leaving the internet entirely.

a reply to: Zephyranth

Every once in a while, I think there are things that only certain people should know about. In this situation only first responders should know this. I'm glad the research was done, but for the love of humanity I could have gone my whole life not knowing some of those kids could have lived.

Of course they go into that type situation 'shoot to kill', or whatever they need to do. EMT's could be on the site on the ready to go after the shooter is taken down. I don't see sending EMT's into a situation where they are also in a bleed-out situation. It's horrible I know, but all human life is valuable, including EMT's.

--but certainly it should have been handled better than it was. I didn't realize they waited for back up before trying to engage the sicko.

a reply to: angeldoll

tell that to all the firemen who ran into the world trade center.

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Oh for Christ's sake find something to spout that hasn't been debunked 413 times already.

At least TRY.

a reply to: Kali74

I have to agree here.

This is gut wrenching.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Zephyranth

Wow that is heart wrenching.

I can only imagine the loss the families felt, then to find this... heart wrenching is probably an understatement.

... there should be a few members that have medical training enough to administer life sustaining aid in the interim.

It does surprised me SWAT didn't have an EMT that could at least start medical triage.

IMHO....If your a man that can stand and know the sounds you hear are gunfire & children are dying......and you dont go inside and try to stop it....that man's a coward...cop or not.

I think it's germane to include that the first officers on scene waited 5 minutes before entering the school.
There was another 5 minute wait inside near the office during which the sounds of gunfire were still being heard.
Thats 10 minutes right there and there was even more elapsed time before any of the victims were even triaged.
In fact one of the officers took pictures in one room before checking the victims.
By their own admission... all the above is in the final report.

a reply to: Kali74

Yeah I'm pretty jaded but I couldn't just numb this news, it was really upsetting for me to read. Perhaps thats necessary though, so that we can make sure to stay vigilant against this sort of atrocity in the future.

I also worry that knowing the failures of LE and EMS in these situations is going to give some creep dangerous knowledge in the future.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Zephyranth

Every once in a while, I think there are things that only certain people should know about. In this situation only first responders should know this. I'm glad the research was done, but for the love of humanity I could have gone my whole life not knowing some of those kids could have lived.

For the love of humanity everyone should know about this.
It's horrible to even contemplate but obviously something was not done correctly or some lives would have been saved.
When they say most of the victims could have been saved that's more than 13.
13 or more people died.
Why?
Doesn't the public have a right to know if their emergency responders are not doing things that could save lives?