Drag Queens banned from Pride Parade in Scotland

a reply to: Darth_Prime

Where do Drag Queens have a record of offending Trans People publicly?

And what about us Genderfluid people that do perform in Drag but also outside of performance live in 'Drag" and identify as Male and Female?

I'm more confused now than ever.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

Drag Queens are not all Attention Whores, we are performers yes, we perform in Drag, i guess the goal of a performer is an audience and applause, but it's not our whole reason for existing... the History of Drag is deep, and the different kinds of Queens as well.

I have a HUGE respect for the drag community. As you know I'm half black and the drag community in the black community is often the first place black transgender people find acceptance (particularly those from very religious families who reject them).

So I have lots of respect for what the drag community has done in that community as well as in other communities and in general historically. Sylvia Riviera, Stonewall, etc.

I *get* that.

However, that doesn't mean the drag community is immune to the same cultural insensitivity towards transgender people. They can be as hurtful as anyone else.

The way you put it was that Drag Queens victimize Transgender people and are too ignorant of Trans issue to refer to a trans woman in male pronouns, but i tell you every queen i know personally, and even those I've interacted with online are nothing but supportive of Trans issues.

I am not talking about the ones you know personally. I am talking about the ones who have caused offense in the past who often are very high profile people (ie: RuPaul).

Where do Drag Queens have a record of offending Trans People publicly?

One aspect of drag queen performance which is common could seem innocent enough to the drag queen but highly offensive to the transgender person.

That is singling out someone during a comedy or other spoken word routine.

This is because many transgender people are actually trying to blend in, not stick out so if a drag queen points out a transgender woman, even if the drag queen uses the right pronouns this could make the transgender woman who was just looking to go to the parade or pride event, or club, uncomfortable.

Now if the transgender woman is young, impressionable and perhaps just starting out you can see how some of the common quips, slang and jokes in the drag scene could be hurtful even if the drag queen did not intend them to be?

And what about us Genderfluid people that do perform in Drag but also outside of performance live in 'Drag" and identify as Male and Female?

I don't know. I only recently learned about people being genderfluid and still do not understand what it all means. I support you though.

a reply to: JadeStar

This is because many transgender people are actually trying to blend in, not stick out so if a drag queen points out a transgender woman, even if the drag queen uses the right pronouns this could make the transgender woman who was just looking to go to the parade or pride event, or club, uncomfortable.

Now if the transgender woman is young, impressionable and perhaps just starting out you can see how some of the common quips, slang and jokes in the drag scene could be hurtful even if the drag queen did not intend them to be?

Ahh. I see what you're saying.
Thanks.

originally posted by: JadeStar
I probably would not be present at an event like this, not because they aren't fun (they are) but because I never really became part of the LGBT community...

I didn't do any of it to say "look at me, i'm different and proud of it". I did it to not be as different.

I didn't do any of it to be special. I did it to be normal.

Yeah. What she said and after 40 years of my own "normalness", that all just seems like a distant memory. Others still think I should be branded and handed a label and be part of the alphabet community which I've never been part of. I never applied for a membership card anyway.

a reply to: JadeStar

I know the issue you are talking about With Rupaul, and there were Trans Woman that were on his side, and others that were on the opposite side

I don't know what you mean by Pointing out a Transgender Person during a performance, maybe you have been to a performance where it has happened, or known someone... but in all the clubs i've performed in, and all the shows i've seen i've never seen that

i think it also depends on the person too... some like you just want to be who you are, avoid the GLBTQ+ community, avoid the Trans label and exist as you are. and some who use it as a sense of Pride, they embrace the Trans label and are out about in the 'Community' either way it's a personal choice and neither is wrong

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: JadeStar

Thanks, and welcome!!!

So, what is your take on the OP articles? Would you be (or are you) offended by Drag Queens?

I'm sure she will answer this much better than I can but her and I live in the cis world for the most part and don't really have any stake in this one way or the other. Personally, I couldn't care less.

Exactly my thoughts. I live in the cis world. I would hope that they all could get along better and i do feel for the transgender people who might be offended. i'd hope they could all work it out so everyone feels welcome and not uncomfortable or offended.

aren't those events supposed to be about getting away from the offenses cis-normative/straight society throws around?

Anyone who watched the first episode of the sci-fi series Sense8 on Netflix saw the scene at the San Francisco pride event. That goes on all too frequently.

People like to think the LGBTIQ community (they are really often separate communities) is one big happy family standing under a rainbow and transgender flag. But they're not. They have issues just like any other sufficiently large group of people with existential differences.

a reply to: EKron

Exactly, and you don't have to be.. as i said before some embrace it and use the Trans label as a sense of power and are part of the GLBTQ+ community, and some just want to exist as themselves, no right or wrong.. a personal choice

The T was added to the GLBTQ+ so we could be inclusive to all rights and issues and a stronger togetherness instead of focusing on each one separately

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

I know the issue you are talking about With Rupaul, and there were Trans Woman that were on his side, and others that were on the opposite side

There are also black people who for financial or other reasons get on the side of and support racists. That does not mean anything. What RuPaul did was wrong.

I don't know what you mean by Pointing out a Transgender Person during a performance, maybe you have been to a performance where it has happened, or known someone... but in all the clubs i've performed in, and all the shows i've seen i've never seen that

I have never been to a drag show but I've read certain accounts of this happening written by young transgender people on a closed forum for transgender kids when I was younger.

It happens to adult transgender people too and I've read about that too.

i think it also depends on the person too... some like you just want to be who you are, avoid the GLBTQ+ community, avoid the Trans label and exist as you are. and some who use it as a sense of Pride, they embrace the Trans label and are out about in the 'Community' either way it's a personal choice and neither is wrong

I agree. But where it becomes an issue is when someone assumes one way or the other and gets it wrong. I feel all drag performers (Drag Queens and Drag Kings) should have to have a minimum level of sensitivity training on gender identity issues before they're allowed to perform at large city sponsored events, etc.

How many times have your drag friends corrected people who use the t-word?

a reply to: JadeStar

Many times, they themselves do not use the 'T' word also..

Why should we have to go through Sensitivity training to perform? that is crossing a line of policing that is never good.. take me for example. Genderfluid, there are others who are Genderfluid or identify as Two-Spirit or even Non-Binary.. would we have to go through sensitivity training also?

Can you post a link to the stories of people getting pointed out, or is it a closed forum? because i have never seen it or been a part of it, but that doesn't it mean it hasn't happened. theer are Bad people in all "Groups" or communities and we agree that you are not absolved from something just because you are not a Cis-Privileged person or part of a 'Minority'

I have to step out for a bit, i'l be back soon to answer anymore (hopefully) questions!

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
I have to step out for a bit, i'l be back soon to answer anymore (hopefully) questions!

Same here. Back in like an hour or so.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

Many times, they themselves do not use the 'T' word also..

I'm glad to hear that because from what I can tell that word is ubiquitous among the drag community online.

Why should we have to go through Sensitivity training to perform?

The same reason city police and other city employees do. If your performance can affect a young impressionable person and you're getting city sponsorship or using city resources why should you (not you personally but drag performers in general) be any different?


[quote[that is crossing a line of policing that is never good.. take me for example. Genderfluid, there are others who are Genderfluid or identify as Two-Spirit or even Non-Binary.. would we have to go through sensitivity training also?

I would say probably not but then excluding you from such training would itself be discriminatory so even though you know this stuff I'd think it would be helpful to have you there. You could help guide some of those who would attend and not get it because you deeply understand these issues.

Can you post a link to the stories of people getting pointed out, or is it a closed forum?

It was on a closed forum for transgender kids which I and my parents read. I was 16 when I read about it so that would put it around 2011.

because i have never seen it or been a part of it, but that doesn't it mean it hasn't happened. theer are Bad people in all "Groups" or communities and we agree that you are not absolved from something just because you are not a Cis-Privileged person or part of a 'Minority'

I agree.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: smurfy

True, Transgender people can be Gay, Straight or Bisexual... but that has nothing to do with 'Transgender' that is a Gender Identity not a sexual orientation

I'm A Gay Genderfluid MAAB(Male Assigned At Birth), which means i'm attracted to men but my Gender Identity is fluid between Male and Female

Genderfluid, a wonderful term, but sounds more of a theoretical proposal than a hard based scientific term, although I'm pretty sure there are those in the scientific 'community' playing hardball to catch up with what somebody said.
Thing is to me, and going by what you say, both transgender, and sexual orientation goes against choice, which is also pretty much what science says..so is that what you are saying, because it seems like you want to differentiate with what might both become cliches?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

There is a lot of discord in the gay community among the various sects, for lack of a better word.

For instance some homosexuals don't like transgenders, because they are not male and gay or female and a gay female, I don't know how to explain it, they don't like transitioning, somehow it modifies your gayness?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

There is a lot of discord in the gay community among the various sects, for lack of a better word.

For instance some homosexuals don't like transgenders, because they are not male and gay or female and a gay female, I don't know how to explain it, they don't like transitioning, somehow it modifies your gayness?

Really, like what?

I confess, I didn't realize you were that knowledgeable about our community to be able to determine the "sects" changes.

I've been to a few drag show in Atlanta, since the mid 1980s.

One of the last ones I went to (about 8 years ago) was hosted by Miss Charlie Brown, a Southern fixture in the scene and the same person that was influential in RuPaul's early career.

Charlie loves to mess with "straight" people in the audience. He was picking on me for about 3 or 4 minutes, because he didn't believe I was gay, and he did so with very overt and profane questions. I am used to such things happening, but, there are times when some performers take it over the top in the "abuse" part of the program.

I can see that some people would be hurt by that kind of attention. Just like going to some comedy shows, I know to expect it.

As I said, I'm more than a bit confused myself by all the fine distinctions being made these days. I look forward to a time when none of them are necessary and people are treated fairly and equitably regardless of any "differences" they may have.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Lets take a lesbian there are some, that don't like men transitioning to women and calling themselves gay, they just don't.

Transgender vs. Lesbian Live Debate || Louder With Crowder

youtu.be...



A few years back there was a lesbian protest against transpeople

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Gryphon66

Lets take a lesbian there are some, that don't like men transitioning to women and calling themselves gay, they just don't.

Transgender vs. Lesbian Live Debate || Louder With Crowder

youtu.be...

A few years back there was a lesbian protest against transpeople

Your knowledge base and reference point is a silly and tasteless youtube comedy video/talk show video???

At best, highlighting the opinion of one "lesbian"? As compared with one "transgender person"?

I understand completely now.

EDIT: Great quote by the "conservative lesbian" ... "Lesbians are expected to be absolutely submissive to the transgenders."

Perhaps this is an example not so much of sects within our community as it is the victim stance of some conservatives?

Hmmm.

jewamongyou.wordpress.com...

The lesbian vs. transgender conflict

There was a great video on the subject I can't find it.

Latte Island has a series of posts about ongoing clashes between transgender activists and lesbian activists. There’s even a video showing a confrontation between the groups during a march.

In the video, lesbian activist Cathy Brennan can be heard telling a gender-modified man that he is “not a woman”. Here are her own words explaining her position regarding men pretending to be women: