Drag Queens banned from Pride Parade in Scotland

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I went to a social function at my partner's university. A younger colleague of my partner introduced themselves as "non-binary" before even telling me their name. (I'm now adjusting pronouns to their desired style.) I smiled and said something along the lines of "That's great!" and tried to move on through the crowd.

"What, you don't want to talk to me?!?" I heard from behind me. "Is it because I threaten you as a cisgendered man?"

At that time, I hadn't even encountered the term "cisgendered" as opposed to "transgendered" nor am I used to someone raising their voice to me in a public setting. I turned back around, walked back to the individual, and asked what they meant by cisgendered and noted that I had no problem talking to them, but was simply moving on through the gathering.

"Typical." was the only reply as they stormed off.

Now, this person was, as far as I know, a biological male that had taken over the campus LGBT group, stopped all social activities, and insisted that everybody who wanted to be involved "get political." This person when I met them had pink hair (badly done), a scraggly beard (unkempt), was wearing a floppy sun dress that would have looked bad on a sack of potatoes, white socks and hiking boots. (Yes, we were at a semi-formal gathering.)

As I got to know them, they proved themselves to be totally unpleasant both in their personal and public personnae.

I had a disagreement on Facebook with them about expecting people to automatically understand that you are "non-gendered, genderqueer, asexual" or any other personal category of being, and considering it a personal affront if people didn't automatically understand the intricacies of their individual views of themselves and of seeing that confusion as an attack on them personally ... and also, as I've mentioned, I refused to use the "they and them" pronouns when referring to him/them, at that point, I admit out of pure spite, but also, because it's bad grammar to refer to an individual with plural pronouns.

I share this only to say, sometimes we have to give others (and an evolving society) a little bit of time to catch up before we become offended and hurt with the way we are "treated." This does not cover, of course, intentional abuse by anyone at any time for any reason.

Sorry to have taken up so much screen.

It's okay that you did. I generally dislike the sort of people you just described. I don't think they do very much good for the alphabet soup community. Some of them have seemed to lost focus and forgotten that many of us are just trying to live normal lives and assimilate into society as best we can, because frankly we have a long history of being targets for some truly brutal and heinous crimes, regardless of which letter of the alphabet we fall under.

I personally would have just flipped off pinky and continued moving on, but that's likely because I'm not as patient as most.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

You know nothing of their 'gender identity' so if I call them ''gay'' because they are BIOLOGICAL men that were dating that is my choice.

You called transgender women, men and transgender men, women when there is a plethora of scientific evidence to the contrary. Evidence which you willfully ignore because it challenges your long held, intransigent, dare i say bigoted view of gender identity and sex.

And as for my opinions, don't bother calling me ''bigoted'' or anything else, it only makes you look foolish.

I'm foolish for pointing out valid information?

I may not be a life-long restaurant worker, i mean i'm just a 20 year old girl studying astrophysics, what do i know about the world right? but i can usually tell a bigot when i see one because i've encounter plenty of bigots in my short life. And I feel you are one of them by the classic definition of: "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group."

(ding ding)

You also aren't the decider of which opinions are valid so refrain from such an attitude.

Nope I am not the decider of what is factually valid. Science and truth are.

As I said my opinions are based on fact, from experience. If you don't like it, tough.

Mine are based on science with factual evidence to back them up. You have stories. In that light whose do you *honestly* think are more valid? Do the math?

a reply to: JadeStar

I am not a ''lifelong restaurant worker''. I have managed many businesses of many sorts since the age of 20, I have worked in many art positions, and I have qualifications in other areas, I own my own businesses, I am also a lecturer. I am 43 and I have a lot of life experience. I have managed thousands of people, I have keyworked (like a counselor /social worker) hundreds of people, I have taught hundreds of people. I have met many thousands of people. I have a lot of life experience and I have met ALL SORTS of people so refrain from preaching to me about gender or people or anything else.

As I said you know nothing of the people I mentioned so do not know their gender identity. Men wearing dresses doesn't mean they are confused about their gender so stop presuming.

As for using your terminology that is your choice, it isn't mine.

There is plenty of actual scientific research that says gender identity confusion is a DISORDER so you are wrong though that is another topic and yet again a topic which is uninteresting to me therefore I refrain from discussing it.

I mentioned some of my experiences on this thread, if you don't like it or my opinions then tough. I don't need to explain anything to you or anyone else.

As I said I won't be pulled into discussions. I say that which I choose to say, when I choose to say. If you or anyone else doesn't like that then tough.

Respect my right to opinions.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Not banned for being an offensive parody of women for hundreds of years but banned due to being offensive to men that think of themselves as women or women that think of themselves as men.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar


Respect my right to opinions.

Your opinion is that I am a man. No i do not nor should I *ever* have to accept that because factually it is incorrect. i never was nor ever shall be a man and unlike your bigotry i've got science on my side.

All you have is hate, spite and bigotry. So no I do not have to respect your opinion when it comes from a place of willful ignorance any more than I have to accept a klansman's opinion which comes from the same place.

Having an opinion does not make it factually valid. Unlike people, opinions are not all created equal.

Has she used the "straw man argument defence" bit yet.?

a reply to: JadeStar

I neither know nor care about your biological gender or how you think of yourself nor have I ever mentioned your gender or how you think of yourself on ATS.

Stop imagining things that were never said, it is foolish.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

I neither know nor care about your biological gender or how you think of yourself nor have I ever mentioned your gender or how you think of yourself on ATS.

Stop imagining things that were never said, it is foolish.

Did I imagine this?

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Not banned for being an offensive parody of women for hundreds of years but banned due to being offensive to men that think of themselves as women or women that think of themselves as men.

Did you not say that earlier in this thread?

a reply to: JadeStar

Was it about you or anyone specific?

No it wasn't so stop imagining things.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

Was it about you or anyone specific?

No it wasn't so stop imagining things.

It was about transgender people. Stop backtracking.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Well, what I've seen so far seems to indicate that you're not afraid of painting with a broad brush based on a few encounters you've had. More than likely you've passed far less extreme examples without realizing it because they weren't anywhere near as loud and brash as your few choice encounters and were simply being normal people going on about their lives just like anyone else.

And, if you're not interested in being drawn into a discussion, why are you here, popping in your 2 cents? You voice an opinion, expect to be challenged on it. This is a discussion forum, after all.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: theabsolutetruth
why are you here, popping in your 2 cents? You voice an opinion, expect to be challenged on it. This is a discussion forum, after all.

Exactly. She comes and takes a swipe at the transgender community and not just a swipe but rather, puts a dagger to it by challenging the validity of transgender women's femininity or transgender men's masculinity and then wants to backtrack and say she didn't say it when it's there for all to see.

And she calls *me* foolish?.... seriously?

a reply to: JadeStar

You assumed too much.

You appear unable to actually read that which is written without slanting it some preconceived bias and that is part of the dislike of gay people, the constant attempts at playing victim.

People aren't as interested or accepting of gay people or the terms they want used as you want them to be. Get over it.

Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread but I notice that Free Pride have made a U-turn:
scotsman.com

The organisation has now overturned the ban and said it will allow drag acts of all genders to take part.

In a statement, Free Pride said: “Free Pride now welcomes drag performers. There was a decision to not book any drag acts which has been overturned.

“Free Pride now welcomes drag performers of all genders and identities.

“The original decision was made because many trans members of Free Pride have had negative experiences with drag acts veering towards racism, misogyny and transphobia; the lack of contact with the drag community contributed.

“We made a mistake, and we apologise.

“Drag is an art form, a form of expression and performance, a community with a rich history. We hope to learn from this in order to foster the kind of community we want to see.”

I guess the backlash stung them into seeing sense

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

You assumed too much.

You appear unable to actually read that which is written without slanting it

I do not need to slant this:

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Not banned for being an offensive parody of women for hundreds of years but banned due to being offensive to men that think of themselves as women or women that think of themselves as men.

bolded part speaks for itself. your own words do you in. not me.

a reply to: JadeStar

Just telling it like it is.

Can't you comprehend that?

Also this thread isn't for gay people only and ATS despite obvious attempts from some isn't GAYTS, and I and others can post here as we choose regardless of your dislike for opinions or terms other than yours.

Most of the world DOES NOT comply to your idea of gender terms nor do they want to and it is not your choice. People have the right to use whichever words they choose, there aren't any laws about how to ascertain or address people according to the gender or sexuality they think they are.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I've read a lot of what you've written so far and it looks pretty cut and dry bigoted to me.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

For someone that doesn't like gay people you sure like these threads.

You come across as obnoxious and for someone who is obviousley homophobic I'm surprised you're a lecturer anywhere in the UK as you and I both know that wherever you lecture would have a no tolerance approach to your opinions. But the safety of the Internet removes this for you, but just proves that the UK government were totally correct in protecting LGBT rights in the workplace and education system against people like you.

You've already said you've received warnings from MODs yesterday for your posts. Now your even more offensive in your posts and downright homophobic.

You have added nothing constructive to this thread or any other thread other than your bigoted rhetoric!

Shame on you!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

Just telling it like it is.

Can't you comprehend that?

Also this thread isn't for gay people only and ATS despite obvious attempts from some isn't GAYTS, and I and others can post here as we choose regardless of your dislike for opinions or terms other than yours.

Who is talking about gays? Your swipe was at transgender people.

Do you know the difference?