Drag Queens banned from Pride Parade in Scotland

I will say this, since several folks with first hand knowledge have had the opportunity to speak on the subject first hand ...

I'll be fifty next may. I've lived my whole life in Georgia, which has afforded me the opportunity to, with about an hour's drive, move between "worlds" that totally accepted homosexuality (gay neighborhoods and clubs in Atlanta) and ones that didn't (rural West Georgia).

Of course, this distinction has changed over time, but not as much as some would like to believe.

However, here's what I know about how people react to the "difference" of a cisgendered man being homosexual:

At first, in my case, when I was not yet socially "out," when my friends or business associates "found out" they reacted, with few exceptions, like "No! You can't be! You're so masculine and "normal acting." I usually responded that I was normal just different. With one exception, when people got over the initial shock, and educated themselves, I never had any problems, and in fact, a whole group of people became "allies" who would jump down anyone's throat who they even thought were acting bigoted around me.

(And before anyone thinks that is a "good thing," in the gay community, by and large, being male and "rugged" rather than "pretty" equates to "ugly" all too often (yes, I'm aware of the Bear community.))

Yet, in regard to trans* issues (including the range of alternate sexual orientations and gender identities) I myself have found in the last few years that I simply didn't understand what and how someone else wanted/needed to be treated and/or referred to. I have no problem changing gender pronouns, for example, and for doing my best to understand and when I don't understand to accept how other people are and how they feel about themselves ... but I have had one interaction that turned out very poorly.

I went to a social function at my partner's university. A younger colleague of my partner introduced themselves as "non-binary" before even telling me their name. (I'm now adjusting pronouns to their desired style.) I smiled and said something along the lines of "That's great!" and tried to move on through the crowd.

"What, you don't want to talk to me?!?" I heard from behind me. "Is it because I threaten you as a cisgendered man?"

At that time, I hadn't even encountered the term "cisgendered" as opposed to "transgendered" nor am I used to someone raising their voice to me in a public setting. I turned back around, walked back to the individual, and asked what they meant by cisgendered and noted that I had no problem talking to them, but was simply moving on through the gathering.

"Typical." was the only reply as they stormed off.

Now, this person was, as far as I know, a biological male that had taken over the campus LGBT group, stopped all social activities, and insisted that everybody who wanted to be involved "get political." This person when I met them had pink hair (badly done), a scraggly beard (unkempt), was wearing a floppy sun dress that would have looked bad on a sack of potatoes, white socks and hiking boots. (Yes, we were at a semi-formal gathering.)

As I got to know them, they proved themselves to be totally unpleasant both in their personal and public personnae.

I had a disagreement on Facebook with them about expecting people to automatically understand that you are "non-gendered, genderqueer, asexual" or any other personal category of being, and considering it a personal affront if people didn't automatically understand the intricacies of their individual views of themselves and of seeing that confusion as an attack on them personally ... and also, as I've mentioned, I refused to use the "they and them" pronouns when referring to him/them, at that point, I admit out of pure spite, but also, because it's bad grammar to refer to an individual with plural pronouns.

I share this only to say, sometimes we have to give others (and an evolving society) a little bit of time to catch up before we become offended and hurt with the way we are "treated." This does not cover, of course, intentional abuse by anyone at any time for any reason.

Sorry to have taken up so much screen.

I want to thank everyone who participated. I have learned a tremendous amount, and I'm sure others have as well.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
What is a binary caucus?

Simple. It means a double caucus .. like .. two of them .. and then us .. as in two of them ... or, two in us.
How do you pronounce caucus outloud? Okay, I'm a terrible person. Anyways..

Some people get insulted / offended / intimidated by other people. I personally thought drag queens and transsexuals were a novel thing; be what you want to be, liberty and all of that.

Then as I got a little older and ended up in some less-than-ideal circumstances in life, and it showed, that some of these folks ended up being liars and sexual predators, in the manipulative sense. I met women that were actually men that outright lied to me, then I had to find out and when I did, looked like an idiot and felt ashamed for being fooled. Then there were the sexual predator gay men, some of which enjoy doing drag, that try to manipulate and pick up the young males that are depressed, isolated, or going through issues. You know, just like many men do to women, it's almost the same thing. Difference being though that no one is trying to be a gender ninja and infiltrate you, if you think I sound terrible I've had people try to do it, I have no reason to lie. I think the whole thing is stupid and at least on par with a white person trying to color themselves permanently black or a black person trying to bleach their skin white. Or even .. asian people getting rounded eye surgeries. Hell, lets throw in fake muscle implants for men, fake breast implants for women, and ass implants all around.

Cheers.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Unfortunately for gay men, my experience of them has been MOSTLY the attention seeking shock factor, shove it down your throat types you met at your gathering.

The sort of 50+ middle aged gay bald, portly, unattractive men that walk around train stations and the city wearing bright colored mini dresses, no tights, hairy legs, women's shoes and lipstick whilst carrying a briefcase that so want you to ask them stuff or engage in their ''me me me'' conversations. They don't like it when I show zero interest in them, not shock, not hate, not love, nothing. If anything I have seen it all before from ''just out'' young guys on the gay scene that are just learning campness and are awkwardly attention seeking (''look at me I am soooooo different'' [except you aren't]), to the older guys basically thinking themselves as ''owning'' the gay scene and acting like camp matriarchs (''you better run that past me love'' [erm no]), to full on draggy /tranny bitchy attention seekers. It is thoroughly boring, tedious and uninteresting. I do not want to discuss their gender identity / sexuality / hatred /bitchiness, I care not for them or their ways.

I have met a few normal gay men, those I don't mind as long as they aren't perverted / into cottaging etc.

I have also met plenty of lesbains, my work place is full of them and generally I get on well with them as they aren't as frivolous as a lot of girly girls and generally less bitchy as there isn't the 'competing for males / who is the prettiest' competitiveness of many women.

Most people wouldn't mind gay men as much if they weren't: Bitchy, Camp, Attention seeking, Cottaging. Those things are standard behaviour expected of gay scenes.

I have also heard of a lot of nasty behaviour from gay scenes, from being in restaurant /hotel management for years, from gay employees, about younger men that were confused being targeted and that is unscrupulous as is the sex in public toilets / parks and hospitalising each other from sticking fruit / bottles etc where they shouldn't be stuck.

Last year I was in L'Occitane in Bath and a camp gay guy looked in the window, minced into the shop, loudly and camply (using the worst 'are you being served' voice) proclaimed on his phone ''omg she's got no chance, 2 queens and a tranny''. Such behaviour is rude, offensive, unnecessary and fake campness is beyond vulgar.

Those that object to homosexuality on religious grounds or any other grounds have the right to, just like they have the right to not like certain foods or wearing certain colours.

People have the right to opinion.

That isn't the advocation of non equality, as equal rights exist, it is the essence of equality as thinking is also a right.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Gryphon66

Unfortunately for gay men, my experience of them has been MOSTLY the attention seeking shock factor, shove it down your throat types you met at your gathering.

Are you absolutely sure they are Gay..Hmmm

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Explain. They were biologically men and they had boyfriends that were biologically men so that is gay isn't it?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Most people wouldn't mind gay men as much if they weren't: Bitchy, Camp, Attention seeking, Cottaging. Those things are standard behaviour expected of gay scenes.

So you are part of the "Gay scene"? or let me guess you have "Gay friends" or know "Gay people" and this is what they tell you right?

Don't fall into ignorance please

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

The sort of 50+ middle aged gay bald, portly, unattractive men that walk around train stations and the city wearing bright colored mini dresses, no tights, hairy legs, women's shoes and lipstick whilst carrying a briefcase that so want you to ask them stuff or engage in their ''me me me'' conversations. They don't like it when I show zero interest in them, not shock, not hate, not love, nothing. If anything I have seen it all before from ''just out'' young guys on the gay scene that are just learning campness and are awkwardly attention seeking (''look at me I am soooooo different'' [except you aren't]), to the older guys basically thinking themselves as ''owning'' the gay scene and acting like camp matriarchs (''you better run that past me love'' [erm no]), to full on draggy /tranny bitchy attention seekers. It is thoroughly boring, tedious and uninteresting. I do not want to discuss their gender identity / sexuality / hatred /bitchiness, I care not for them or their ways.

Ya know what?

I meet those same people in the Straight Scene.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

No, not part of the gay scene but I have met a lot of people from the gay scene due to having friends with gay friends and having worked for years in catering /hotel management and having gay staff.

I have also met many in my more than 25 years of work and education. I have also worked in retail management. I am also an artist and lecturer, all of these areas contain a percentage of gay people that is probably above average.

My opinions are my own. You might not like them or believe them but these are facts.

Are you calling me stupid / incapable of making informed opinions?

Are you objecting to me forming my own opinions based on my own experience?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Thank you!

it may come as a shock to people but the GLBTQ+ people are not perfect, nor is the community... what you said about older gays being "Ugly" can be said about effeminate Gays not being Man enough or just "twinks".. it's Wrong and we shouldn't discriminate within our own community, but we also can't act like it doesn't happen...

To be honest, i've had more than a few encounters with people who tried to shame me for being "Cisgender white skinny male" (even though i am Genderfluid) over the internet and in person...

just like there are some Gay men who don't feel the T should be part of the GLBTQ+ alphabet.. i think it's ignorant and i don't agree with them, but my point is that yes there are bad people in all Groups, but that does NOT represent everyone or the "GLBTQ+" community as a whole

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Explain. They were biologically men and they had boyfriends that were biologically men so that is gay isn't it?

If i need to explain it you completely missed it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

(And before anyone thinks that is a "good thing," in the gay community, by and large, being male and "rugged" rather than "pretty" equates to "ugly" all too often (yes, I'm aware of the Bear community.))

That, is kinda how the straight world is now too.

I'm straight female, attracted to straight Bear Type men.

I'm tall, and "was" thin. I am not attracted to tall clean-cut men at all. I like my men "solid on the ground" with beards. I get a lot of flack for the men I choose.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Not at all, i know you have your own opinions.. what i mean was don't fall into the ignorance of what the "Gay scene" is by only looking on the surface.

People confuse "Personalities" with 'Sexuality" all the time, Being Gay doesn't always mean you are going to be a flamboyant outspoken person. and if those have been your experiences than they are your own.. if i formed my opinions on my experiences with some of the straight people i've encountered in y life it wouldn't be pretty... but i can't and don't judge a whole group

a reply to: Darth_Prime

And exactly where did I ''judge a whole group''?

I am intelligent and I form my opinions based on fact and experience, please refrain from insulting my intelligence.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime

People confuse "Personalities" with 'Sexuality" all the time, Being Gay doesn't always mean you are going to be a flamboyant outspoken person.

YES!

Young straight guys are kinda ridiculous in their behaviors too, but they are accepted by society.

My younger "wild child" daughter was being hit on by balding 50 year old men from the time she was 13.

There may be or have been more extremism in the "gay world" but, they were forced to create their own culture on the fringes by straight society.

Now that LGBTQ+ are becoming main stream, much of the extremism seems to be subsiding. Today many are your neighbors, and belong to the PTA.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Darth_Prime

And exactly where did I ''judge a whole group''?

You judged two whole groups. Probably three. I asked that we have a private discussion about it via U2U and you ignored it because you don't care, you'd rather wallow in ignorance than become more enlightened on these matter. That's your right but it doesn't make you right.

I am intelligent

Intelligence is best displayed by deductive reasoning, gathering new information and data and integrating that new information and data into a knowledge base, perhaps re-evaluating old information and experiences along the way.

By that definition, one does not have to say they are intelligent if they already display traits of intelligence. I am not sure that you have here.

and I form my opinions based on fact and experience,

And do not ever challenge them or re-evaluate them.

please refrain from insulting my intelligence.

My objections are when you call transgender women, men in dresses and refer to transgender men as women. Considering everything we scientifically know to the contrary, ie: FMRI brain scans, androgen insensitivity disorders, etc you still proudly declare your ignorance of it all. That's insulting OUR intelligence when you say stuff like this:

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Not banned for being an offensive parody of women for hundreds of years but banned due to being offensive to men that think of themselves as women or women that think of themselves as men.

You're entitled to hold whatever bigoted opinions you hold just as a KKK member or neo-nazi is entitled to theirs. However, all opinions are not equally valid nor should they ever be.

And no you don't get a pass because "you have lesbian friends".

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I didn't, when you said it's the expected behavior of the "Gay scene" was wrong, that was all.. i never insulted your intelligence or your opinions

a reply to: Annee

Thank you!!

No one cvomplains about the Ultra-Hetero male who goes around be "Loud" and shoving their "Straightness down our throats"

Personalities and expression is different from Gender-Identity and Sexual Orientation

What we must remember is that since we never selected to be gay,Bisexual,Lesbian,Transgender,Genderfluid or any other Gender-Identity 'Cisgender' people never made that choice to be 'Cisgender' so we shouldn't shame them based on their Gender or Gender-expression.

but that doesn't mean straight Privilege doesn't exist, because it clearly does

a reply to: JadeStar

You know nothing of their 'gender identity' so if I call them ''gay'' because they are BIOLOGICAL men that were dating that is my choice.

Are you a word nazi?

And as for my opinions, don't bother calling me ''bigoted'' or anything else, it only makes you look foolish.

You also aren't the decider of which opinions are valid so refrain from such an attitude.

As I said my opinions are based on fact, from experience. If you don't like it, tough.