NASA to Make BIG Announcement Live on Thursday - Another Earth?!

originally posted by: jamsession
as exciting as it sounds, it still makes me ask what's the point if we can't go there anyway? *sigh*

Because it helps us determine how likely planets like Earth are in the Milky Way galaxy. And that helps us sharpen our estimates of how close the nearest planet like Earth is to us and plan to detect it. Following that future instruments, telescopes to examine it would be designed, funded and launched in the near future and perhaps even a probe or human mission would be sent to it in the distant future.

Each journey of a million miles begins with one step.

Right now we barely know what's out there. Finding other Earths helps us learn more so that one day we might be able to go to a planet like that one but closer to our solar system.

originally posted by: HUGOH

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: HUGOH
Another: " We presume, maybe, if all our calculations are right, that we suspect, that we have found a planet that looks like, but we are still not sure, and confirmation will come after 20 years, but only if we have enough funds and enough personnel to deploy to this discover.... etc.... etc..."
Amazing!

*** THIS.

As much as I hate to say it.. That's it pretty much.

If you want to find aliens any sooner (i do!) then lobby Congress to give NASA a bigger budget to build things we're pretty sure could find them if they're out there. If NASA had the budget of one of the military branches, we could probably be able to build things to see something the size of a small car on worlds many light years away.

All it takes is money.

Sorry to disagree. If we want to find aliens any sooner (me too!) then Military/Intelligence lobby in Congress, to delete the Above Top Secret Classifications and Security Clearance about this matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

All it takes is will.

Science can't do that. It requires evidence that such would be hidden by those classifications. There is none to my knowledge. AFAIK that debate is for another area of ATS.

I'm sure it will be yet more boring "news" to give the impression of progress in the distraction that is NASA. 66 years from not believing we could fly to landing on the moon and people still believe this planet is unknown and never been visited,amazing.The human ego is a profoundly stubborn and delusional thing.

originally posted by: CallYourBluff
I'm sure it will be yet more boring "news" to give the impression of progress in the distraction that is NASA. 66 years from not believing we could fly to landing on the moon and people still believe this planet is unknown and never been visited,amazing.The human ego is a profoundly stubborn and delusional thing.

This just about sums it up for the most part. Great post!

This is hardly a big announcement, they're too far away to matter to anyone, and they've found several of these before.

I didn't see the head of NASA or JPL or anyone that raised any eyebrows in the pre-announcment. (the usual suspects for the usual underwhelming announcements will be present).

If this was indeed a HUGE announcement, I think we'd see a few bigger big-wigs than just the department heads. We'd see names on the attendee list we don't normally see.

This might be a "huge" discovery for people in that field of study, but for us normal folk it'll be very mundane.

a reply to: ghostrager

Big announcement huh?

Anything short of revealing the black world's secret space program is a waste of time!

i sincerely hope this something interesting and perhaps something or somewhere that we can actually get to.

There have been many big announcements like this and it always turns out to be a new object in the sky and nothing of any great interest to the world ... But like someone mentioned earlier, this certainly feels different and with all the current nasa focus maybe it's come time for them to open up a bit to us regular people

Every time I hear that nasa has a big announcement to make it always turns out to be nothing really big! If they found what they believe to be a earth like planet it's only speculation, they have no hard concrete proof that another living planet is out there, folks don't hold your breath! a reply to: ghostrager

My guess is they either.......

A. Need money (NASA always needs more money)

Or

B. TPTB have some other sinister tech agenda they want to route (at least partially) through NASA and they're planning on lubricating it's passage by getting a bunch of science nerds all drunk on vague "possibilities" punctuated with a lot of typical hoopla.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: ghostrager

Big announcement huh?

Anything short of revealing the black world's secret space program is a waste of time!

They've got to much developed now to unveil it all at once. NASA will just have to get the hand-me-down technology from "surprisingly lucky and brilliant" scientists who were "nudged" in the right direction.

Besides, think of how pissed off those NASA astronauts would be to learn about all the way cooler stuff they never got to do!

originally posted by: CallYourBluff
I'm sure it will be yet more boring "news" to give the impression of progress in the distraction that is NASA. 66 years from not believing we could fly to landing on the moon and people still believe this planet is unknown and never been visited,amazing.The human ego is a profoundly stubborn and delusional thing.

As a scientist I don't think our planet is unknown if intelligent life is common in our Milky Way galaxy.

Here's why:

Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years and for the last 2 billion of those years, our Earth has been broadcasting that life existed here in terms of our plant life generating biosignatures. These biosignatures would be detectable with technology no greater than we are capable of today out to a spherical area of 300 light years.

That is an area encompassing an estimated 391,725 stars and an estimated 86,180 potentially habitable worlds.

So for the last 2 billion years, an alien astronomer within that 300 light year sphere with technology no greater than our own, looking at our planet with a sufficiently large space telescope would notice that something was filling our atmosphere with free oxygen.

That would stand out to any alien astronomers because oxygen is highly reactive and likes to combine with other elements to form things like carbon monoxide aka smog (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), water vapor (H2O) and formaldehyde (CH2O).

So anyone with a sufficiently large space telescope looking at the Earth and seeing a huge spike of O2 (free oxygen) would know something is replenishing it and the only something which does that efficiently for planets like ours, as far as we know, is life. Specifically photosynthetic life (plants, trees, etc).

They'd see something like these:




So yeah, if they're out there they probably at least know our forests are here. Few scientists would argue that. Could they have sent a probe or come here in the past? Maybe. Few scientists would argue that either. Even Carl Sagan suggested we look for evidence of such ancient visitation in images and data returned from our exploration of our solar system.

The only thing most scientists would have an issue with are claims that they are coming here now or are actually here now. There's just nothing which can be examined by science today which would firmly establish that.

BTW: This workshop took place last year in Arizona co-sponsored by The Vatican Observatory:





Another took place this past April in Puerto Rico, one of many of this type these days. It's focus was also on detecting the telltale signs of life on Earthlike worlds in our neighborhood (that 300 light year area I mentioned above):



Personally, I were a smart alien on a planet 100 light years away looking at the Earth with a hyper-telescope capable of seeing something the size of a Honda Accord car I'd probably have seen enough from our year 1915 to stay as far away as possible and observe from the comfort of my own solar system. And in 30 years I and the rest of my alien world could watch World War II unfold.

a reply to: ghostrager

Nasa has NEVER announced anything exciting in its existence, I am continually amused that people think they have, or ever will.

a reply to: JadeStar

I can only imagine, that it must be very difficult, being born in a wrong body... but I am glad to know that your parents are so understanding and made choices that seem, to me, would increase the degree of happiness and comfort you can experience.

So, if they can confirm this hypothetical Mars bacteria were the same as Earth's, then could they know for sure that it came from Earth, and not the other way around?

Or could it be possible that life was created or spontaneously popped into existence in the same manner on both planets, making it impossible to determine whether or not one planet's life came from the other? Since we know nothing about how life began, it would seem very difficult if not impossible to know for sure.

DNA can mutate, so I'm curious to know how they could be sure that it did or did not travel from one planet to the other. Could it have arrived from one planet to the other, and then over the years transformed/adapted/mutated into something unrecognizable?

Thank you for your contributions to this thread and for sharing your story.

It will be the same bull-# announcement as usual -- We're giving news that are at least 50 years behind in time. But hey... slowly but surely..because we're a stupid species who really can't handle too much...back to watch some twerking videos!

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: HUGOH
Another: " We presume, maybe, if all our calculations are right, that we suspect, that we have found a planet that looks like, but we are still not sure, and confirmation will come after 20 years, but only if we have enough funds and enough personnel to deploy to this discover.... etc.... etc..."
Amazing!

*** THIS.

As much as I hate to say it.. That's it pretty much.

If you want to find aliens any sooner (i do!) then lobby Congress to give NASA a bigger budget to build things we're pretty sure could find them if they're out there. If NASA had the budget of one of the military branches, we could probably be able to build things to see something the size of a small car on worlds many light years away.

All it takes is money.

Yes. Rather suspicious that the public venue of space knowledge has been hindered in such a way. I personally don't buy the excuses. But I understand that, if you are going to pursue a career in the field, and desire to be close to the action, that you must tow the line. Maybe you really do believe they are not, and would not, hide anything from the public. But you and I both know you have too much to lose to admit it if you did suspect anything out of the ordinary were going on.

Perhaps you'd explain to me that NASA would be the first to want to reveal something astounding to the world, because that would lead to more funding for them. But what if there is something more important than funding? I'll say it's possible they have absolutely nothing to hide. But its also possible they do. And I think if they were ordered to do something by a government agency, they would do it.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: JadeStar

I can only imagine, that it must be very difficult, being born in a wrong body... but I am glad to know that your parents are so understanding and made choices that seem, to me, would increase the degree of happiness and comfort you can experience.

Thank you so much! Your understanding of what for me was a deeply personal issue from my past, is very much appreciated. I am incredibly happy with my life right now and love my family for helping me get to this point.

As I said, if you (or anyone else for that matter) want to get a glimpse of what it was like for me growing up and my family, watch "I Am Jazz" on TLC. Jazz like me was the youngest with 3 older siblings. In her case she has two older brothers and an older sister. In my case I have two older sisters and an older brother. She's 14 and began hormone therapy at the same age which I did (back in 2008). Her siblings remind me of mine except there was a bigger gap between the next youngest and I so all my siblings are older than hers.

The first episode last week brought back so many memories from not that long ago especially the trip to the endocrinologist's office. Her personality and the stuff she experiences reminds me a lot of how I was at that age. She even sounds like me, which made me feel weird when I watched the first episode with my family and boyfriend.

It was like seeing a mirror image or doppelganger of myself personality wise. If she goes to college to study or major in a science I'll be stunned.

Here's the show's trailer:

So, if they can confirm this hypothetical Mars bacteria were the same as Earth's, then could they know for sure that it came from Earth, and not the other way around?

That's a very good question!!

It is best answered with a "maybe" or "probably".

Life on Earth has undergone a lot of change since the beginning. Bacteria is no exception. So even though bacteria on Mars would be an extremely simple form of life if it were native to Mars it would be uniquely adapted to its environment as the Martian climate changed from a warmer, wetter one to a colder, drier one.

This adaptation should be detectable as different from similar bacterial families on Earth.

Oh and if its chirality, or "handedness" of DNA were the opposite of that of all Earth life then that would be a dead giveaway from the start.

IF however it's DNA were like ours and it seemed too much like recent strains of bacterial families on Earth then the chances that it hitched a ride either on one of our space craft (recent past) a meteor kicked up from a major asteroid impact would go way up and what would be an initially exciting story of finding life on Mars would be reduced to finding Earth bacterial on Mars.

Or could it be possible that life was created or spontaneously popped into existence in the same manner on both planets, making it impossible to determine whether or not one planet's life came from the other? Since we know nothing about how life began, it would seem very difficult if not impossible to know for sure.

WOW! Another great question!!!!!! You are good at this!!!

Yes that could be possible. Still, evolution over time would mean that even if Mars and Earth life arose independently from the same stew or amino acids, RNA, etc, life on Mars which is still alive at this point should look different from that of Earth, even at the bacterial level.

Where it would be very confusing if not impossible to differentiate, would be if we found ancient microfossils of bacterial colonies on Mars similar to those we've found on Earth. That might make it impossible to tell whether life arose independently or was transported to Mars.

And if the rock they were found fossilized in predated Earth life, there would be strong evidence for the very real possibility that all Earth life was the result of a Martian meteorite impacting the ancient Earth and seeding our planet with life since we know Mars was at one time more temperate and perhaps hospitable to life before our Earth in it's early history had cooled completely.

That's why just finding even ancient evidence of bacteria on Mars could prove to be a MAJOR event in human history and our understanding of where life came from.

DNA can mutate, so I'm curious to know how they could be sure that it did or did not travel from one planet to the other. Could it have arrived from one planet to the other, and then over the years transformed/adapted/mutated into something unrecognizable?

Yes exactly. And those mutations would favor one planet or the other at this stage so if it were a living specimen then we'd probably be able to tell where it originated because with each mutation the gene leaves some signs of its past. We'd follow those back like breadcrumbs to the source.

Thank you for your contributions to this thread and for sharing your story.

You are so welcome. Thank you for the epic questions! Best questions in the thread so far so *star* for you!!!

originally posted by: 3n19m470

Yes. Rather suspicious that the public venue of space knowledge has been hindered in such a way.

In what way exactly?

I personally don't buy the excuses.

Which excuses? Stuff costs money. Space is hard and space science stuff often costs what people view as lots of money for things they often only have a partial understanding of (if at all).

If there was a higher science literacy level among the electorate this would change.

As it is now, a lot of resources are spent on Public Outreach to basically teach them remedial basic science while explaining what various missions, instruments, observatories, etc would be capable of and which big questions they hope to address if they receive funding to build them.

But I understand that, if you are going to pursue a career in the field, and desire to be close to the action, that you must tow the line.

Well I'm an undergrad. I've never been part of the "in-crowd" in high school and so I am not out to win any popularity contests. I've always been an independent thinker, I had to be and my parents raised that way and to question everything, including authority and firmly held ideas and that includes in science. I do that when it makes sense to do so.

But i also recognize that i'm only 20, am an undergrad and still have A LOT to learn. It is not enough in science to question something which is established. One must have not only a compelling reason to challenge a long-held view but the academic tools necessary to create a new test of it, a line of research, an experiment, an inquiry into the data, which could help topple it.


I'm a long way from any of that!

Maybe you really do believe they are not, and would not, hide anything from the public. But you and I both know you have too much to lose to admit it if you did suspect anything out of the ordinary were going on.

Here's why I have my doubts about "they" hiding anything of this nature.

1. Presumably "they" would need astronomers, astrobiologists, etc in their secret program. The problem with this is that most of these people are fairly independent and the fields they occupy are multidisciplinary in nature, meaning they'd have to network with their peers in the not-secret world. Science is an open endeavour by its very nature. It's hard to keep secrets while also advancing scientific knowledge so either a) the secret program isn't able to make much headway because their talents are best used in the open world or b) the secret program doesn't exist. - choice b) is more logical than choice a) which lacks sufficient evidence.

2. The discovery of even bacterial life on another planet would be such a huge story and have ramifications for all of humanity and perhaps all of life on Earth that SOMEONE would leak it. A nobel prize, fortune and fame to last for all of human history would await its discoverers and any organization which helped them (ie: NASA) would get a HUGE budget boost.

3. Most "NASA scientists" working in these area do not work primarily for NASA but belong to different universities or other institutes. These places tend to be open environments where an exchange of ideas is not only natural but necessary to advance the field (back to point #1)

Perhaps you'd explain to me that NASA would be the first to want to reveal something astounding to the world, because that would lead to more funding for them.

Yes, or the ESA, JAXA, ROSCOSMOS, the Chinese Space Program, the Indian Space Program. NASA is no longer the only people doing space and astrophysics these days. One would have to believe all these other countries space programs with their own interests would also be part of your cover up. That strains credibility beyond belief.

But what if there is something more important than funding? I'll say it's possible they have absolutely nothing to hide. But its also possible they do. And I think if they were ordered to do something by a government agency, they would do it.

Then all governments would have to do it and no scientist would every leak it. Again, it really is hard to believe that could happen in this day and age where stuff like Wikileaks happens.

a reply to: JadeStar

if you say so.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
a reply to: JadeStar

if you say so.

I promise you that if i find out where the aliens are stashed or hiding i'll come to ATS and post it ASAP!