Ukrainian Government Acknowledges that Some of Its Leaders Are Nazis

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Two: Why would the U.S. take such careful measures to make sure exactly who they wanted was in place in the Ukrainian government if new elections would be held ANYWAY when things stabilized a bit?

Why would Victoria Nuland even be discussing this if it didn't even matter?

a reply to: YouPeople

You live in a world where all phone calls stay exactly on the topic at hand and never stray into opinions or levity, just facts all the time and no room for anything else?

That's neat.

originally posted by: YouPeople
This is not about the EU remark. They are clearly talking about what decisions they are going to influence, they are discussing their strategy, quite obviously.

Why would they plan a strategy when they are not planning to interfere?

Well, it did not work. The people Nuland and the diplomat were speculating about did not arrive into power. So pretty failed interference. But, as I said, have you any evidence that the EU or US are interfering in Ukrainian politics?

But please, how childishly naive are you people. US and EU have been trying to get Ukraine in the EU for years. Off course they are interfering.

How and where? Russia has also participated in NATO and EU structures. I can understand that Russia are annoyed that they have lost yet another vassal state that has turned to look West, but you may find that Ukraine just wants a change and have, on their own volition, decided to implement that change. After all, the Russians think the Ukrainian's are all Nazis (as per the OP) and many Ukrainians remember the Stalin-inspired atrocities that resulted in millions of Ukrainians dying.

I mean how can Russia not do something. I don't blame Russia for looking out for its best interests when they are in jeopardy. I think that sofar they handled it well and probably with a lot more restraint than some people had hoped for.

That’s the root issue here. Russia’s best interests have been for a compliant and submissive Ukraine, but that's been spoiled and Russia’s thrown the toys out of the pram. I would not call the invasion and annexation of Crimea, or the interference in eastern Ukraine “restraint”.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Do you want me to post the transcript so we can all see what and how things are being said?

So is there a legitimate Nazi party in Ukraine? I mean, don't you have to have an actual Nazi party to belong to be an actual Nazi? Otherwise, wouldn't they just be "Nazi enthusiasts"?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I think that's the rules.

I mean, I love me some cupcakes. But I don't belong to a cupcake party. I'm just a cupcake enthusiast. A dirty cupcake sympathizer.

a reply to: paraphi

Well, it did not work. The people Nuland and the diplomat were speculating about did not arrive into power.

Yatsenyuk did not become prime minister?

originally posted by: paraphi
Historically, choosing between the brutal Hitler and the brutal Stalin must have been very difficult. However, by WW2 we need to recognise that Stalin and the Soviets has already engineered a famine in Ukraine that killed between 2.5 and 7 million Ukrainians in 1932-33.

Many Ukrainians were just prepared to fight with anyone who was against Stalin!

This continuous accusation from Russia that the Ukrainians are Nazis avoids the fact that Stalin and was probably worse to Ukrainians than was Hitler. Both regimes were vile and as bad as each other.

This sums up my perspective as well.

These things don't happen in a vacuum and Soviet policy systematically starved and terrorized the Ukrainians to the point that the Nazi's looked like saviors.

Besides, talk is cheap and actions speak much louder. The Russian Federation with Putin at the helm is doing a swell job of emulating the Nazi territorial expansion of the late 30's.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I mean, since WWII has there really been a legitimate "Nazi" out there instead of just Nazi enthusiasts and fans?

originally posted by: YouPeople
Do you want me to post the transcript so we can all see what and how things are being said?

Perhaps you can post all the other evidence that the US and / or EU are complicit in interfering in Ukrainian politics. Any Ukrainian politicians wallowing in bribes and corruption from EU or US pockets, like Yanukovych? The transcript of the Nuland call is already readily available.

a reply to: paraphi

That’s the root issue here. Russia’s best interests have been for a compliant and submissive Ukraine, but that's been spoiled and Russia’s thrown the toys out of the pram. I would not call the invasion and annexation of Crimea, or the interference in eastern Ukraine “restraint”.

There clearly are people that want to be on Russia's side. Did Russia or the rebels invade the whole country and submit the people?

a reply to: paraphi

Perhaps you can post all the other evidence that the US and / or EU are complicit in interfering in Ukrainian politics.

I was in a specific discussion about the phone call.

Perhaps you can stay out of it?

The transcript of the Nuland call is already readily available.

Did I say it wasn't? I asked if she wanted me to post it.

Was I talking to you here?

a reply to: Drunkenparrot

Besides, talk is cheap and actions speak much louder. The Russian Federation with Putin at the helm is doing a swell job of emulating the Nazi territorial expansion of the late 30's.

Right, the EU has seen a way way bigger expansion and is is now taking the Ukraine.

originally posted by: YouPeople
a reply to: Drunkenparrot

Besides, talk is cheap and actions speak much louder. The Russian Federation with Putin at the helm is doing a swell job of emulating the Nazi territorial expansion of the late 30's.

Right, the EU has seen a way way bigger expansion and is is now taking the Ukraine.

I'm sorry, when was the last time the EU marched onto another countries peninsula and said "This is ours now."?

originally posted by: YouPeople
I was in a specific discussion about the phone call.
Perhaps you can stay out of it?

Be civil. If you post on a discussion board you should not be surprised if others join in. If you want a one-to-one discussion then send someone a message.

Anyway, you have previously (and selectively) responded to my posts, so I reiterate for the third time whether you are able to back up your claim that the US and EU are interfering in Ukrainian politics. I think you will struggle to find anything other than an oft quote telephone call.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I can think of a few times the US and Euro friends did these sort of things......

a reply to: YouPeople

I am? The comment you qouted is clearly written in the past tense.

So your not saying they are being run by Nazi's now?

Do you agree with the OP?

Members of nazi parties were part of the government until recently, and while they received support from America.

Again you do understand that when there is a Nazi in a government the US supports it doesn't mean the US is supporting Nazi's, and since Svoboda only had at the most 35 seats out of 450 in the Ukrainian parliament, and they never had a PM from Svoboda are you making this up as you go?

Here show me where they had a member that was the Ukrainian PM?

en.wikipedia.org...(political_party)

a reply to: paraphi

. I think you will struggle to find anything other than an oft quote telephone call.

Off course, it's hard to get 100% proof of such a thing since it would not happen out in the open, and off course you are going dismiss really obvious stuff. Like I said, only a moron would not understand that two parties are fighting over a bone here.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Here show me where they had a member that was the Ukrainian PM?

I already rectified that.

a reply to: YouPeople

Right, the EU has seen a way way bigger expansion and is is now taking the Ukraine.

You do understand how a country becomes part of the EU...right, because it seems you may not but here you go now you do.

Becoming a member of the EU is a complex procedure which does not happen overnight. Once an applicant country meets the conditions for membership, it must implement EU rules and regulations in all areas.
Any country that satisfies the conditions for membership can apply. These conditions are known as the ‘Copenhagen criteria’ and include a free-market economy, a stable democracy and the rule of law, and the acceptance of all EU legislation, including of the euro.

A country wishing to join the EU submits a membership application to the Council, which asks the Commission to assess the applicant’s ability to meet the Copenhagen criteria. If the Commission’s opinion is positive, the Council must then agree upon a negotiating mandate. Negotiations are then formally opened on a subject-by-subject basis.

Due to the huge volume of EU rules and regulations each candidate country must adopt as national law, the negotiations take time to complete. The candidates are supported financially, administratively and technically during this pre-accession period.

europa.eu...

So if they wanted to expand so much why do they have such stringent rules about joining?