Ukrainian Government Acknowledges that Some of Its Leaders Are Nazis

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: darkorange

I will tell you what went wrong. Since Ukranian independence, US of A heavily cultivated 'national identity' ideas among youth. Only one purpose was minded, to cultivate potential ground for future land grab on Russian boarders.
I just dont understand, you pretending to be that thik or trolling?

Nobody wants to grab land from Russia...except for the Chinese.

And Putin is just handing it to them that's the funniest part of it. There buying up land and now own parts of major companies all the stuff he swore he would never do. Makes you wonder if he's taking bribes from china.

a reply to: notmyrealname

As with most things in this world, current affairs are not usually how they seem. This is largely due to the control over media by the government and it's corporate interests.

Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like now!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: notmyrealname

As with most things in this world, current affairs are not usually how they seem. This is largely due to the control over media by the government and it's corporate interests.

Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like now!

not true. there is national pride. Media spin is for weak minded. Post above is evident of what I said is realised.

D0

originally posted by: darkorange

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: notmyrealname

As with most things in this world, current affairs are not usually how they seem. This is largely due to the control over media by the government and it's corporate interests.

Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like now!

not true. there is national pride. Media spin is for weak minded. Post above is evident of what I said is realised.

D0

You just demonstrated what I was pointing out; when the news disagrees with what you believe, blame the news.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: darkorange

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: notmyrealname

As with most things in this world, current affairs are not usually how they seem. This is largely due to the control over media by the government and it's corporate interests.

Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like now!

not true. there is national pride. Media spin is for weak minded. Post above is evident of what I said is realised.

D0

You just demonstrated what I was pointing out; when the news disagrees with what you believe, blame the news.

I was not even refering to your post, silly. Sorry you felt that way.

On the second note. Do you have a brain or you clamp to news feeds indefinitely?


D0

a reply to: darkorange

I was not even refering to your post, silly. Sorry you felt that way.

Then why did you quote my post? Seriously, please explain.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: notmyrealname

As with most things in this world, current affairs are not usually how they seem. This is largely due to the control over media by the government and it's corporate interests.

Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like now!

I suppose that I am supposed to understand your humor however, what are you trying to say?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: darkorange

I was not even refering to your post, silly. Sorry you felt that way.

Then why did you quote my post? Seriously, please explain.

Due to an error. Like I would even consider your media quotations.


D0

ps You have to start to lay your own ideas. This will be the only way to gain any respect.

originally posted by: darkorange

How is that Russia was not nice to Ukraine? Built infrastructure, huge investments in energy sector, cheap energy supplies, trade coops and discounts.

invasion, annexation of territory, supporting separatist movements trump any of that.

And how come when Russia invests $200 billion in Ukraine over 20 years it is "nice" - but if the USA spends $5 billion over 20 years it is fostering a coup??

Investing in the economy. I'm sure this included NGO's to foment political dissent? The USA's NGO act has been exposed. Exposed in Ukraine, Cuba, Venezuela etc. This is an objective fact. Our gov has been interfering with foreign governments via NGO's. Why deny this? What do you get out if it? Warm fuzzy nationalistic feelings?

a reply to: JeanPaul

Oh yeah - all Russian investment has been "in the economy" f'shure......like the $15 billion Putin offered to bribe Yanukovych not to sign the EU trade deal...that was totally not to interfere with the government of Ukraine because Russia is so much better than the USA and would never interfere with he internal workings of a friendly neighbour they have signed a treaty with never to invade.......

How Russians crowdfund war in Ukraine - that's so totally economic investment!!

And US investment in "civil society" is so secret!! and evil!!



The USA does crap....but this isn't one of those times, and those times that it did and does, doesn't mean the Russians aren't f-king around in Ukraine just as bad or worse!!

a reply to: JeanPaul

This is an objective fact.

An objective fact you never seem to be able to provide evidence for.

a reply to: darkorange

ps You have to start to lay your own ideas. This will be the only way to gain any respect.

Might I suggest you take your own advice?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Oh yeah - all Russian investment has been "in the economy" f'shure......like the $15 billion Putin offered to bribe Yanukovych not to sign the EU trade deal...that was totally not to interfere with the government of Ukraine because Russia is so much better than the USA and would never interfere with he internal workings of a friendly neighbour they have signed a treaty with never to invade.......

The treaty gives each party the right to interfere with each other's affairs if they are affected by it.


www.un.org... /ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A /52/174&referer=http://unterm.un.org/dgaacs/unterm.nsf/8fa942046ff7601c85256983007ca4d8/c51e9028c21407d685257ca6005e0999&Lang=E

. Article 7 If a situation arises which, in the opinion of one of the High Contracting Parties, poses a threat to peace, violates the peace or affects the interests of its national security, sovereignty or territorial integrity, it may propose to the other High Contracting Party that consultations on the subject be held without delay. The States shall exchange relevant information and, if necessary, carry out coordinated or joint measures with a view to overcoming the situation

Article 6 Each High Contracting Party shall refrain from participating in, or supporting, any actions directed against the other High Contracting Party, and shall not conclude any treaties with third countries against the other Party. Neither Party shall allow its territory to be used to the detriment of the security of the other Party.

It was not just a free trade deal. The free trade aspect is just the economic part of the Association Agreement which is basically the start of EU joining process.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement is a treaty between the European Union (EU) and Ukraine that establishes a political and economic association between the two parties. The parties committed to co-operate and converge economic policy, legislation, and regulation across a broad range of areas, including equal rights for workers, steps towards visa-free movement of people, the exchange of information and staff in the area of justice, the modernisation of Ukraine's energy infrastructure, and access to the European Investment Bank. The parties committed to regular summit meetings, and meetings among ministers, other officials, and experts. The agreement commits Ukraine to economic, judicial, and financial reforms to converge its policies and legislation to those of the European Union. Ukraine committed to gradually conform to EU technical and consumer standards.[5] The EU agreed to provide Ukraine with political and financial support, access to research and knowledge, and preferential access to EU markets. The agreement commits both parties to promote a gradual convergence toward the EU's Common Security and Defence Policy and European Defence Agency policies.

Ukraine being in a (militairy) pact with the EU violates Article 6.

The High Contracting Parties shall develop equal and mutually advantageous economic cooperation and shall refrain from any actions that might cause economic damage to the other Party. To this end, recognizing the need for the gradual formation and development of a common economic area through the creation of conditions for the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour, the Parties shall take effective measures to coordinate a strategy for carrying out economic reforms, deepening economic integration on the basis of mutual advantage and harmonizing their economic legislation.

Signing the trade deal was an action that might cause damage to the other party's economy. Another treaty violation.


Every action by Russia after these violations, are not violations of the same treaty as it was rendered null when the Ukraine violated it.


It's not my fault that the Ukraine signed such a restricting treaty, but the Russians were right when they said that Ukraine was legally violating the treaty.

a reply to: YouPeople

nothing in the EU deal posed any sort of threat to Russia that justifies invasion - aty best they should talk to Ukraine about it in accordance with the sections you quote.

however Russia is on record as saying they consider the treaty broken - for which there is no actual justification they can pouint to.

Russia are being a-ho'es and a threat to peace in Europe - sorry you buy their brave sierra.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

however Russia is on record as saying they consider the treaty broken - for which there is no actual justification they can pouint to.

I just posted two justifications, you downplayed one of them and completely ignored the other.

Russia are being a-ho'es and a threat to peace in Europe - sorry you buy their brave sierra.

Not buying anything, just pointing out that the Ukraine violated the treaty first.

a reply to: YouPeople

Yep - neither of them are real.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: YouPeople

Yep - neither of them are real.

The High Contracting Parties shall develop equal and mutually advantageous economic cooperation and shall refrain from ANY actions that MIGHT cause economic damage to the other Party.

This is not real? This free trade deal is 100% not going to cause damage to Russia's economy?

Article 6 Each High Contracting Party shall refrain from participating in, or supporting, any actions directed against the other High Contracting Party, and shall not conclude any treaties with third countries against the other Party. Neither Party shall allow its territory to be used to the detriment of the security of the other Party.

This is not real? Strategically speaking it is.

a reply to: YouPeople

nope - it's not real.

A free trade deal with Europe would make a richer Ukraine that would be a better trade partner with Russia.

BUT....even if the Russian BS was true, the treaty obliges them to TALK ABOUT IT - as per your own quotes.