How We Know Russia Shot Down MH17

I honestly thought people were smart I bough to give up on the 30 mm cannon excuse. It has been proven over and over to be shrapnel. But I guess that's the only way to deny it's russian. And never mind the fact the plane would not have been able to get close enough to fire it's cannons who needs to pay attention to the small details.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Are you unable to respond to his answers because you cant refute them? Secondly what does any of it have to do with Russia and MH17?

They do this in every thread, when they can't respond to facts without being proven to be liars, they resort to derailing the discussion with the usual - "but the US did this once, and the UK did this then, and someone else did this back in..."

Of course, it's all irrelevant to the current discussion, but when they run out of bs to say they have no choice but to derail the debate.

It's basically a confession that you've won, they just can't admit it.

Apparently a resolution at the UNSC is going to be forward by Malaysia calling for the establishment of a UN tribunal. Russia is going to block it an introduce there own which will keep the mess in a permanent holding pattern.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Apparently a resolution at the UNSC is going to be forward by Malaysia calling for the establishment of a UN tribunal. Russia is going to block it an introduce there own which will keep the mess in a permanent holding pattern.

Until the rules are changed.
I don't think the UN members will allow Russia to hold it to ransom over this. Something will have to give and there will be a method created to move this forward with or without Russia.

Ultimately, the more Russia tries to prevent, meddle or manipulate this, the more guilty Russia looks and the less likely other UN members are going to tolerate it.

a reply to: Rocker2013

From what I have seen during research a UN approved tribunal can demand evidence from the various countries involved and, again from what I have seen, don't have the ability to refuse to cooperate. This means a tribunal could require evidence / testimony from Russia.

I don't see Russia allowing it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rocker2013

From what I have seen during research a UN approved tribunal can demand evidence from the various countries involved and, again from what I have seen, don't have the ability to refuse to cooperate. This means a tribunal could require evidence / testimony from Russia.

I don't see Russia allowing it.

A Tribunal is a judicial proceeding that is independent. That's what Russia fears. A judicial proceeding will severely constrain Russia's ability to modify or influence the outcome. It would become complicated if the Tribunal asked Russia to disclose information, or deliver certain people for open scrutiny.

Russia protesting about the Tribunal is because they have seen them working elsewhere and they are uncomfortable "truth finders". The more Russia resists, the more it is clear they are complicit.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

The SU-25 is slower than the 777. If the cockpit was shot by 30mm cannon fire then the attacking her would have had to deploy from the direction of Russia.

originally posted by: Soapusmaximus
a reply to: yuppa

The pilot was shot at first with 30mm cannons , you can see this in the wreck pictures.

Some will believe one thing others will believe another thing.

[Snip]

edit on 27/7/15 by JAK because: If you have any questions regarding staff action please U2U them for clarification or make use of the complaint feature.

Im sorry but this isnt Ace combat and a SU-25 whose max altitude is 16,000 with no weapons loaded(a cannon is still a weapon so it is empty if it can hit that alt.) CAnt hold the height long enough to line up a HEAD ON GUNSHOT such as you are proposing. Also most fighter pilots will tell you a head on gun shot is a very very bad idea jet on jet.

Ive seen 30 mil cannons in use before as well During a weapons demo. Also a PILOT would had CALLED OUT a aircraft approaching it head on as well to ask them to veer away. That was not on the recordings was it?

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

The pilot was shot at first with 30mm cannons , you can see this in the wreck pictures.

Some will believe one thing others will believe another thing.

Yep some people will believe one thing...even when that thing is impossible.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

What are you on about? they are still trying to keep hidden the Abu Grahab stuff

And yet we know what happened there...guess they aren't hiding it well enough.

Abu Ghrab was going to blow wide open regardless, so they suppressed the bad stuff and released the very soft-core stuff, didn't they!

I guess they didn't suppress it enough...

www.theguardian.com...

your assumption that the US doesn't cover up / hide / ignore massacres and tragedies it performs is pretty concerning.

The only one's who believe that live deep in the Amazon Jungle and have never even heard of the US.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ever since Iran contra the US has been unable to keep secrets their is always a leak. Even abu graib was started by one of the guards who grew a conscience. If the us is doing something illegal it always seems to come out. Now have to admit they are great at damage control though.

Now my question what does this have to do with Russia helping to shoot down a passenger plan?

a reply to: dragonridr

Now my question what does this have to do with Russia helping to shoot down a passenger plan?

Nothing...but I needed a little entertainment today.

originally posted by: Soapusmaximus
a reply to: yuppa

The pilot was shot at first with 30mm cannons , you can see this in the wreck pictures.

which pictures show this?
I've never seen any such evidence.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Considering MH17 was brought down with a missile I don't think any pictures exist of there being bullet holes in the aircraft.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I am interested in what pictures the poster thinks show such holes.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Xcathdra

I am interested in what pictures the poster thinks show such holes.

They like to argue the Shrapnel holes from the missile are 30mm holes from a gun. They also ignore the possibility of some of those holes occurring on the ground considering the area was not secured for quite some time.

I find it sad Russia is pushing 2 yet completely opposite theories of what occurred.

David L. Stern, a citizen of the USA, working as a CIA agent under cover in international media, in particular in GlobalPost and BBC, in the middle of July of 2014 was near Grabovo village of the Donetsk region of Ukraine where the Boeing Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) was shot down. The given transcripts of David L. Stern's phone talks partially clarify the events preceding the air crash on July 17, 2014 in Ukraine. Audio files were provided by people of the ex-head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) Valentyn Nalyvaichenko after his resignation.

www.pressbox.co.uk...

a reply to: JedemDasSeine

Welcome to the site...

Care to clarify your post?

I ask because it was recently discovered a UK citizen was acting on behalf of Russian intelligence when it came to reporting about MH17. Or is this an attempt to try and blame the CIA for the downing of MH17?

It wouldn't surprise me that the intel services employ journalists,it's wrong of course and once outed they should be banned from journalism for ever

So this David chap has evidence for what?


He seemed paranoid about being wanted by the Russians and suggested he had sensitive information stored in separate locations that he could leak if his safety was not assured by the security there