Planned Parenthood Sells Dead Baby Parts

originally posted by: Ignatian
That's an interesting case, i will have to follow this to see the outcome. Medical decisions like this are extremely complex, and we'll never know all the details of her actual medical condition, the quick decisions that must be made, etc. That's a tough business to be around.

The last line of the article,"if there's a heartbeat, we can't do anything.." Umm, ya, cuz that's a little human heartbeat!! Those folks are there to preserve, hopefully, that babies life, as well as the mothers. In fact, most expecting mothers actually have 2 doctors. Her own, and the baby's doctor also. That baby has as much a right to live as the mother's, wouldn't you agree? Does the doctor ONLY have to consider the wishes of the mother? What if she were comatose for some reason? Oops, problem! Kill the baby!! Nope, that's not how it works.

Doctors are supposed to save lives, In that case one life

could have been saved, barring religious ethics. Oddly enough it wasn't

the 'patients' religion!!


It appears that the woman was spontaneously aborting ....and as she was only

17 weeks pregnant regardless of a heartbeat there was NO chance for

the survival of the foetus before 22 weeks gestation as the lungs are not

sufficiently developed to breathe. The Doctors will have known that ...

I think there would be a case there for negligence?

But Hey its a Catholic country!! That's never going to happen.

this is in response to Ignatian
There is no way around it, in some matters of this World, we are all hypocrites. You really should face it, you are too

originally posted by: Leonidas
It is amazing what people are willing to believe when it feeds into their personal biases and prejudices, no matter how ridiculous and preposterous it is.

I dont know who's worse, the people that didnt think it was a hoax...or the ones that knew it but tried to use it to justify their agenda.

Whats even more amazing is people still calling it a hoax when PP has admitted they are doing it and is appologizing for the crass delivery from this high level person .....

Not only that, if you watch the FULL film, it all says the same damn thing........

anyone who says it was heavily edited and doesnt say this is lying that they have watched it.....

IMHO its even more damning in its entirety

Whether you are Pro-life or pro-choice it really doesnt matter........any way you slice this its monsterous

a reply to: eletheia

But Hey its a Catholic country!! That's never going to happen.

Actually, only about 25% of the population of the United States self-identifies as 'Catholic'...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

It is a hoax. The PP exec apologized for her tone. I don't think she needed to or should have but her choice. PP is not selling baby parts. You can watch the full 2 hour+ video or read the full transcripts both posted a few time and know it for yourself.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I'm pro-life. And you know exactly what that means. We're talking about abortion here. But, yes there are "circumstances" that justify killing. Just War Theory covers all that.

Jesus got the death penalty. Many thousands of Christian martyrs get the death penalty, even today. 50+ million babies in The US have gotten the death penalty since RoevWade. So, yeah, the death penalty exists. I happen to be against it.

This here is your hypocrisy that you cannot deny. It's like me saying "I'm pro-life but, yes there are cicumstances that justify abortion". Some things you just need to accept. You don't need to like it. But the battle over abortion has been fought and it's legal and no matter how much you hate it - it's not ever going to change. The politicians on either side (left/right) USE you....and you can't even see that.

I'm afraid if you are against abortion then don't have one. And if you believe it's a sin then let God sort it out.

The original video in question is disturbing but again I see it for what it is "business as usual". It's a creepy world we live in.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: eletheia

But Hey its a Catholic country!! That's never going to happen.

Actually, only about 25% of the population of the United States self-identifies as 'Catholic'...

I was talking about the link in which an Indian woman living in Ireland

(staunch catholic country) was allowed to die because her body was

spontaneously aborting her 17 week foetus because it still had a

heartbeat. Not withstanding that it couldn't have survived anyway.


You do realise that everyone on this forum is not an American?

a reply to: eletheia

It's kind of hard to determine what the damage would be if abortion was outlawed if restricting it to just american news. Since we've had a pretty lax abortion policy since the Roe/Wade decision well we'd have to go back quite a while to look and well the results would be a little off because of the medical advancements. but if one were to look at Ireland, Poland or even central american one could get a closer image.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Except that the "doing it" that Planned Parenthood "admitted to" is not the "doing it" of your OP or the hoaxed video.

Fetal tissue donations, sure.

Charging handling for the tissue donations to research facilities, sure. (They're non-profit, remember?)

Killing babies to harvest their parts for f-ing PROFIT?

A lie from the pit of hell (if I believed in hell).

You know it; we know it.

originally posted by: toolgal462
...we are all hypocrites.

This is just a fact. We all have our own context, beliefs and opinions that have formed since birth and we all see things a little differently. I don't know of anyone who doesn't hold some hypocritical beliefs.

originally posted by: toolgal462
I'm afraid if you are against abortion then don't have one. And if you believe it's a sin then let God sort it out.

Werd.

Good posts.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I'm pro-life. And you know exactly what that means. We're talking about abortion here. But, yes there are "circumstances" that justify killing. Just War Theory covers all that.

Jesus got the death penalty. Many thousands of Christian martyrs get the death penalty, even today. 50+ million babies in The US have gotten the death penalty since RoevWade. So, yeah, the death penalty exists. I happen to be against it.

So, you're pro-life, except when someone needs killing. Abortion is heinous murder, except when your church says it isn't.

See, that's what scares me most about these ethics that allow you to determine who lives and who dies and what is "just."

You're not against the death penalty, you've already said that. You're trying to be cute. It isn't working.

Let me summarize what I've heard you say here: termination of life is okay as long as you agree with it.

That's the equivalent of what a psychotic feels and believes; do you see what the problem is with that???

a reply to: Gryphon66

The argument boils down to semantics really. You call it "fetal tissue" others see it as "baby parts". You call it "donating" (which legally it is) others call it "selling".

There really is nothing new under the sun in this video and I will say again, it hasn't changed one person's mind on the subject of abortion. If you believed abortion is murder of a baby, this video is 'proof' of that. If you believe that abortion is okay, this video doesn't show anyone doing anything wrong.

So everyone can go back to their corners because both sides can be argued with merit but it's not getting anyone anywhere ultimately.

Abortion is one of life's moral dilemmas that I'm afraid there is no solution that will make everyone happy. There are a lot of moral dilemmas that are part of this life I'm afraid.

ETA: What I chose to see and take note of with this video is the demeanor of Nucatola. Business like, detached, cold....It reminds me of what the humans of this world have made this life about: money, business, commodities.....and that, to me, is what I found most upsetting about it.

a reply to: toolgal462

I will agree that many issues of debate dissolve to "semantics."

I understand that you and I disagree about the OP video and associated issues.

However, calling the tissue samples "baby parts" is gauged purely for an emotional reaction. Taking away the context of the statements that were made by trying to portray what the doctor was saying as "performing abortions for baby parts to sell" is simply a LIE. No, it's not just a different way of saying the same thing or the truth.

If we left all "moral dilemmas" merely to stand as they are, what sort of society would we have? The only way to resolve this issue (and like so many social justice warfare items, we have to find a way to resolve it) is to concentrate on the facts, own our emotions, but realize that there is no easy, universal answer, and that the only equitable law that can be made is that before viability, the woman's body is HER OWN, and the decision must be HER CHOICE, because ONLY SHE is going to have to live with it.

So many want to make it into a public issue; it is not. It is a PRIVATE issue and every woman must be able to make her own choice.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: toolgal462

I will agree that many issues of debate dissolve to "semantics."

I understand that you and I disagree about the OP video and associated issues.

However, calling the tissue samples "baby parts" is gauged purely for an emotional reaction. Taking away the context of the statements that were made by trying to portray what the doctor was saying as "performing abortions for baby parts to sell" is simply a LIE. No, it's not just a different way of saying the same thing or the truth.

If we left all "moral dilemmas" merely to stand as they are, what sort of society would we have? The only way to resolve this issue (and like so many social justice warfare items, we have to find a way to resolve it) is to concentrate on the facts, own our emotions, but realize that there is no easy, universal answer, and that the only equitable law that can be made is that before viability, the woman's body is HER OWN, and the decision must be HER CHOICE, because ONLY SHE is going to have to live with it.

So many want to make it into a public issue; it is not. It is a PRIVATE issue and every woman must be able to make her own choice.

But it is "baby parts" to those against abortion. That is the entire crux of the abortion debate, is it not?

originally posted by: toolgal462
But it is "baby parts" to those against abortion. That is the entire crux of the abortion debate, is it not?

Emotion is the crux of the abortion debate. Laying guilt trips is the crux of the abortion debate. Calling abortion the "murder" of a "baby" is what anti-abortionists say to lay a guilt trip on those who face this difficult decision.

I have been in the position where I had to decide to surgically remove a fetus from my body, because it threatened my life. We both would have died otherwise. I WANTED that baby SO bad! She would have been 24 this year. And it still hurts. And for someone to accuse me of "baby murder" just seems so uncaring, unsympathetic and so freaking mean, I can't believe it. I couldn't have any more children.

The fact is, abortion is the business of the pregnant woman and her doctor and family. It's simply no one else's business. Where everyone got the idea that it IS their business, I don't know. They're just poking their noses in where they don't belong.

Would you tell someone they should or shouldn't have their gall bladder removed? Would you try to pass a law to make people keep their appendix, or let the government decide how everyone should respond to cancer, diabetes or other personal, medical situation? No, because it's no one else's business.

I do not disagree with what you have just said. But once again, it comes down to what one believes 'a life' is. If someone feels so strongly that life begins at conception then I suppose I can at least understand why they are so opposed to abortion. In that person's eyes, it's state sanctioned murder.

I do not happen to agree with those people. I actually think the SC got Roe v Wade right. Until the fetus becomes viable and able to live outside of the mother then I don't believe the state has the right to force a woman to do anything.

There is simply no way to resolve the bitter differences between the opposing sides it seems.

And Benevolent Heretic - I'm very sorry for your loss and that heart wrenching decision you were forced to make 24 years ago.

a reply to: toolgal462

The crux of the abortion debate is whether a woman has the right to decide what happens with her own body, or whether that right is reserved to government.

A baby is a human infant person that can live (with care) on its own outside of the body of another person.

These are not "baby parts" by any medical or scientific definition.

People "believe" in invisible beings that miraculously control the universe.

Belief is not fact.

a reply to: eletheia

First of all, yes, I know that not everyone here is from the U.S.

Secondly, my comment was in regard to you mentioning it was a catholic country. While I certainly didn't realize you weren't talking about the U.S., my reply was not in any way an attack; it was merely a correction.

Lighten the hell up, would ya?

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: eletheia

First of all, yes, I know that not everyone here is from the U.S.

Secondly, my comment was in regard to you mentioning it was a catholic country. While I certainly didn't realize you weren't talking about the U.S., my reply was not in any way an attack; it was merely a correction.

Lighten the hell up, would ya?

Lighten up? Says the person who incorrectly corrected another member?

Wow, okay, if we're being that careful about facts ... you're mistaken about more than one thing:

With 69.4 million members, it is the largest religious denomination in the United States, comprising 22% of the population. The United States has the fourth largest Catholic population in the world, after Brazil, Mexico and the Philippines, the largest Catholic minority population, and the largest English-speaking Catholic population.

Easy to find facts via your local Wikipedia.

So ... I guess we all need to "lighten up" ... eh?

Interesting article I thought some might be interested in reading...

www.cnn.com...