Is the universe one big process ?

Are human beings just a part of this big process that we call the universe ? Is the universe just one body, one organism ? Is it just like the organs of your body : you can talk about separate organs and even observe them, but are they not part of your body ? But if the universe is just one organism, isn't my own body and mind as large as the whole of the universe ? And in this case, what is the Ego, is it just an illusion ? And if it just an illusion, why is there even an illusion to begin with ?

Everything is interconnected, everything in this universe is in need of everything else to exist, or to even be defined. If you observe a bird, you never observe it outside of its environment, isolated from everything else. There cannot be a bird without an environment : there is the sun, there is the planet, there is gravity, there is the wind, there is water, there are trees, there are food sources, there are other birds, etc.., and there is also an observer. But if we can't separate the bird from its environment, why do we even begin to think or to believe that the bird could be something that is separate from its environment ? Then ultimately, Isn't the bird and its environment just one system, just one entity ? And where do we put the limit where we say "the bird's environment stops here" ? Are we to ignore how galaxies attract each other, how cosmic rays blast through space, or how the sun came to be ? It becomes logical then to affirm that the universe is the environment, the one environment that encompasses and contains everything.

You can remove your liver from your body and look at it. You can even cut it out and throw it on the floor. But if you do that, is it still a liver, or is it just a piece of meat ? Your liver is a liver only when considered in relation with all the other organs of your body, it is considered a liver only when it performs the function of a liver, and it can only perform that function if it is in relation with other organs of your body. We define things in regard of what they do, and what a thing does is always in relation with something else. Imagine a universe where there is only one object, how is this object supposed to do anything ? How are we to define this object if there is nothing else to compare it to ? Why even try to define it if there is no distinction to make with other 'non-existent objects' ? If the object is supposed to move, how are we to know that it moves if there are no other points of reference ? If for example we look at galaxy A and galaxy B, and we see that the distance between them is shrinking, how do we know if it is galaxy A going towards galaxy B, or galaxy B going towards galaxy A, or that both galaxy A and galaxy B are moving towards each other ?

What does that mean for human beings ? Just like for the bird above, there are no human beings without an environment. A human being without an environment is something we can only talk about, but we can never observe it. What lies outside the skin of a human being is as important as what lies inside the skin, which means that the "body" - what we commonly accept as being everything that lies inside the skin - is in reality not limited by the skin. The commonly accepted "body within the skin" is in reality a social construct. The air we breathe, the food we eat, the water we drink, the sunshine on our skin, etc., all those things that we perceive as being outside of us, other than us, all those things are in reality part of one universal body inside of which everything is connected, just like every organ inside our skin is connected by the blood stream and nerves. We are as much the universe than the universe is us. We are the air we breathe and we are the wind, we are the river and we are the sun. We are also the planet on which we stand : as much as we would like to see ourselves as separate beings that just happen to walk on the surface of the planet, we are in reality part of it : it is not us that is alive, but it is the planet that is alive and us with it, and ultimately the whole of the universe. Saying that we are separate and different from the planet is like saying my flesh is separate and different from the bones to which it is attached.

In regard of all this, what about consciousness ? Can it be really different ? Can consciousness be something separate, isolated, in spite of everything else being interconnected ? Could we define consciousness if there was only consciousness and nothing else, just like the lone object which I talked about earlier ? Could there be consciousness if there was nothing to be conscious of ? Does it mean that - just like the body - consciousness is in reality not "my" consciousness, or "your" consciousness, or "his/her" consciousness, but the consciousness of the whole universe ? Is it like the multiple branches of a tree : they seem to all go in different directions, some leaves catching more or less sunlight and more or less wind than other leaves, some branches giving more or less fruits than other branches, but are they not all part of the same tree, with the same roots ? Does every possible form of consciousness have the same source ?

What about the ego ? Why do I have this very powerful sensation that what happens, is happening to me ? If there is one body and one consciousness, which is the whole of the universe, why do I feel such a sensation of uniqueness and loneliness ? Why do I feel that the things I do are being done by me and no one else ? Is it a powerful social construct, a powerful illusion ? I seem to walk on the surface of the planet from my own free will, and my body seems to be contained behind my skin. If I cut my hand I will feel pain, and the other guy next to me will feel nothing of that sort. If it is just an illusion, then why ? Why is there an illusion to begin with ? At this point we can only speculate : some believe it is god playing hide-and-seek with himself, that he 'divided' himself and forgot himself into multiple consciousnesses, and the game is about remembering who we really are. But this is just belief. But if we cannot extinguish this sensation of ego, we can choose to see it for what it is : an illusion, or just a sensation between the myriad of sensations that we feel everyday : a sensation just like when I touch a block of ice and feel that it is cold, or the sensation of touching the flames of a fire with my hand and feel that it is warm. Because fighting the ego is giving the ego even more power, fighting the ego is making it bigger..

As a conclusion, I would say it is liberating to understand and to feel that other people around you are no different than you. It is not even that they resemble you, but they are you and you are them. Try to walk on the street and try to see everything else as an extension of yourself : the cat, the car, the sun, the jerk, the cute girl, the tree, the wind, the road, the birds etc., you might feel a sense of deep serenity and it can become overwhelming.

Interesting thread. I think we're all part of a bigger organism. I think every living thing including cells, bacteria or trees all have consciousness but on different degrees or on a different part of the spectrum. If you look at the atomic scale it kind of looks like planets and solar systems.

Are we a super advanced virus on a huge organism or are we an healthy part of that organism?

S+F

originally posted by: gosseyn

Pauli Exclusion, because of the finite number of available quantum states of matter, indicates that reality is interconnected causally at the quantum level.

Many have posited the consciousness shapes reality, but I believe the inverse, that reality controls consciousness. We cannot make a conscious decision that is contrary to reality. Our consciousness is a function of the quantum fields that define and support our existence as conscious beings.

Everything from the motion of quarks to the decisions we make are inextricable parts of a greater whole.

a reply to: gosseyn
It seems ive heard this talk before.
A lot of what your saying is what the bible is trying to preach. We can now take it a step further because we have more knowledge. As above so below. Every process is the same but on larger or smaller scales.

I would like to concentrate on the EGO side of things though. It gives the people their most powerful emotion. Ego is the driving force behind natures law 'survival of the fittest'. What I mean by that is it gives us our excuse to lie to ourselves, it is the reason we commit atrocities, it gives people the courage to commit heinous crimes against themselves and fellow humans. We as humans have needed this trait to become top of the food chain. Ego gives us confidence to do unreasonable things, things we would never have attempted to do without ego.

I personally think the next evolutionary change is the death of the EGO. We as humans will develop Empathy to become the law of nature and not survival of the fittest. This would mean we are almost emotionally fully developed. Look at children playing and see them arrange a pecking order and put each child in its pigeon hole due to ability and social constructs. It is the ego that drives Alpha male syndrome. When ego death happens we will become social animals with equality the overriding emotion. This is evident in all great caring people.
Lets look at 1 social change that would occur overnight. If there was no Ego then there would not be Hollywood superstars, who are more recognised and loved than some eminent scientists and social reformers. Imagine a world where the true heroes are held in esteem. At the moment everyone wants to be a footballer or actor because of the high regard and worship they receive. When we have a world that adores scientist and social reformers and everyone wants to emulate them, then that is when humans will move forward in leaps and bounds. new discoveries will be for the right fields and not for control or profit.
I believe empathy is the key. Empathy kicks off a domino effect of emotions. With empathy you cannot fail to understand and this leads to forgiveness which in turn will lead to gratitude, ( the reward for forgiveness), After gratitude we cannot help but feel ecstasy and this will kill any egotistical thoughts anyone ever has.
True empathy is not a feeling its the start of a process.

a reply to: gosseyn

"Connected" is an easy term to throw around. Of course, once asked where and what this connection is, one can never simply point it out; He can only devise some grand picture in his imagination, talk about it, and hope that people will believe it. Rather, the connection is an illusion, something one can only think up, usually by appealing to gods and "observers" and new age dogma, but never any actual connection.

very nice posts, from OP down to last one.

Our own body has hairs and other living organisms in us (intestines) or on us (skin). Is it not similar just like earth with plants as hairs and animals as organisms, just like us, but only on a larger scale.

Do you think, when I am feeling some emotion, that it is a different feeling for other people. I think that even in some animals there is visible emotion of love or fear and they are expressed in similar manner. For instance you can tell if your pet is happy, or scared.

And to go even further, even water has evidently some memory and it gets structured differently for positive or negative emotions.
www.youtube.com...

So if everything is energy/conciousness/god where does that leave us and what relation do we have with it. I don't know exactly other than from scriptures or other books from people who were exploring these questions for their entire life. But around such men who discovered IT religions were made...

For anyone interested, this is a page which I have found on google, and it is a sum of major religions and their teachings of the Self. Very interesting read and it shows that all religions are pointing to the same thing at its core!
www.theself.com...

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
It depends on your understanding of connection. We are all connected to nature by the triggers it causes in our development and day to day lives. I believe we have more of a connection than just triggers. I believe thought is mostly external and there is my connection.

If you believe all thought is internal then you are implying we already now and are searching our memory for the stored area to gain access. That is true in inherited ancestral memory only. All new developments would never have been achieved if we could not connect to nature and thought is the conversation.

Read Russel t Wallace the co discoverer of evolution, he was stopped from releasing the true way he discovered it. Darwin agreed to dumb it down and omit how they made this discovery. They had the theory before the evidence they were communicated too and went to search for the evidence. Every discovery is thought up before it is implemented isn't that proof.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: gosseyn

"Connected" is an easy term to throw around. Of course, once asked where and what this connection is, one can never simply point it out; He can only devise some grand picture in his imagination, talk about it, and hope that people will believe it. Rather, the connection is an illusion, something one can only think up, usually by appealing to gods and "observers" and new age dogma, but never any actual connection.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. All religious dogma aside, the fact is our perception of the universe comes by looking at it from within. Technically, we are part of the universe. So what if we were outside the universe looking in? Would we still just assume humans are independent? Remember though, trying to identify a human in the universe from the outside would be akin to looking for subatomic particles.

I've always felt that because conditions in the universe allow sentient life to exist, the universe itself intends for sentient life to exist.

We are the way that the universe observes itself, the way the universe perceives its own splendor.

a reply to: UniFinity

We are billions of living cells all independent of each other with its own laws and lifespan. There is the proof that all is made up of tiny independent life forms. It has laws of nature to abide by and limited memory and instruction. So yes we are just like the earth with each life form performing functions to allow the other to exist.

Emotions in all living creatures have been overstated due to belief we as humans can feel LOVE. This is a myth. we are incapable of true love, we are too undeveloped to omit true love. We get it mixed up with natures survival instinct.

All of natures creatures have what we call emotions and they posses the same range of them as us. We, because of our ego think we are the pinnacle of creation. Lets look at that and if we are just cells on a large living organism then its irrelevant and essential. So is everything.

For the human to fully understand then we have to update the definition of life to include the energy that actually keeps these cells in adherence to laws. We are more than a collection of small cells, we are a force that utilises these ingredients to be what we are. so does the earths energy and so does the milky way energy and so does the universe energy. Until we change the definition of life we will never bring the universe to life.

a reply to: gosseyn

Well... dont know if it's an organism or what it is... but I've come to laugh at the idea that we as humans see us as separate from fx. the Big Bang.

Alan Watts described it so clearly many times where he said that the Big Bang is something that is on-going, not something that happened long ago. It's only long ago as seen from our sense of time, and considering how little time we've been around, it's pretty stupid and arrogant to think that our concept of time is a common denominator for the entire universe.
Mind you... not pointing fingers at you OP, I'm talking the entire human race here.

Think of an explosion of any kind. Fx. and exploding shed. Now for us that explosion seems to last less than a second if we use our concept of time. But if you sub divide that second into many many many small amounts, you could relatively end up with 4 billion parts of that second.
Now... as seen as a whole the start of that explosion is from our point of view no different than the end.

But if seen from one of those 4 billion parts the very beginning could seem very different from a part closer to the "end".


Ofcourse that doesn't bring us any bit closer to what the universe is or inhabits. For all I know our universe could be a single brain cell in an infinitely larger organism and we are simply racing towards the end of our lifespan.


If you can contain and own this train of thoughts, it will suddenly dawn on you how crazy and irrational war, money and suffering is.

originally posted by: chr0naut
Many have posited the consciousness shapes reality, but I believe the inverse, that reality controls consciousness. We cannot make a conscious decision that is contrary to reality. Our consciousness is a function of the quantum fields that define and support our existence as conscious beings.

I think its some sort of two way gate, where consciousness can shape reality but reality is dominant due to its persistent realness! Don't forget, reality for me has you in it, and your ideas on reality join all the other you's and dominate my ability to shape reality. The ability to change reality is clearly there and happens continuously as change is the only constant, everything is moving. A change in reality via consciousness could be our collective desire to manipulate the environment that gave us opposabale thumbs, or to one mans desire to see a monument built that lasts a thousand years?

a reply to: chewi

Nature, the universe, God—no matter what term you use, you are not quite sure what to put it on. They are words, nothing more. None of us have seen nor do we know whether there is a boundary in which all things are contained, whether there is any finite thing called a universe.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Patchy guesswork at best. Faith.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
No we don't know if there is a boundary but we know our boundaries and laws of nature, what we can and cant do. Just because we cannot comprehend the workings of the universe or what title we give it does not mean it is not part of some larger entity or process. Our ego makes us believe we are the highest form of living thing. It is stopping us from comprehending a larger more intelligent entity. No matter what title we give this.

We put a lot of faith in there being nothing before the big bang. Just because we cannot measure the life forms then doesn't mean they are not there and part of the big bang or whatever title we give it. we do not understand the true definition of life because of our laws and boundaries present at the moment. What we do know is there was no life as we know it jim, but only by our present definition.
Certain forms of energy are life forms we just cant comprehend it yet.
Some people in the past have and some will do in the future, they are not all schitzo
I remember learning about rainbows as a child and the colour it contained. When I was older I watched a program about rainbows and how many colours it actually contained. You will be surprised how many are invisible to the naked eye and how many it contains.

Well looks look at it from another perspective shall we. . . . .

From the perspective of dreams. . .

When you dream you create the entire universe, and animate the entire universe, then see it from a limited place of ego known as you.

When we dream that world is just as real as this one, the only difference is you wake up from it.

This world is persistent otherwise it could be said to be a dream as well, which may explain various physics principals like superposition.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: gosseyn

"Connected" is an easy term to throw around. Of course, once asked where and what this connection is, one can never simply point it out; He can only devise some grand picture in his imagination, talk about it, and hope that people will believe it. Rather, the connection is an illusion, something one can only think up, usually by appealing to gods and "observers" and new age dogma, but never any actual connection.

But of course it is easy to prove : If I remove you for just 30 seconds from the air you breathe you will easily understand that you had a vital connection with the air. If the day of your birth I placed you in a cell with no windows and no contact with anyone or anything (let's say with just a mechanical hand to feed you), none of the thoughts that you had today would have been possible, and you wouldn't even know what 'language' is, and your brain would be very different than your brain today. Every atom that constitutes your body inside your skin was existing prior to your conception. The computer that you use is made of very old matter, and the technologies were invented a long time before you even existed. If there had been nothing around you, there would be no you. Are you denying all that ?

a reply to: gosseyn

Because we we have things around us, or are affected by them, does not mean we are connected. We have a proximity to other things, and we need things to survive, but a proximity or need is not a connection.

a reply to: chewi

Just because we cannot comprehend the workings of the universe or what title we give it does not mean it is not part of some larger entity or process.

Doesn't mean it is a part of some larger entity either. In order to determine what is the case, we examine the evidence rather than guess.

a reply to: gosseyn
Everything in the universe is just moving all as one movement - as you say everything is connected. Who is making the planets move? No one, it is just happening. Who is making the tree grow leaves? No one, it just happens. Who makes the clouds appear? Again, it is just happens.
The human is the only apparent thing that believes it is doing something - the mind (language) is playing tricks. The human thinks it is separate from life - when really all that moves is just moving.
Another way of saying that everything is connected is, nothing is separate - no one is doing anything and there actually is no one - no individual volition.
All that is happening (moving) is simply just happening - there is no separate doer.