China's Empty Cities

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: notmyrealname
The Bible indicates the U.S. will still be the predominate power when things come to pass.

Okay, I must have missed the verse where the United States is mentioned in my copy of the Bible. (Yes, I have one, even though I'm an evil unbeliever .) Show me it, please.

There is another video on that website that describe how the chinese capitalism has created millions of recent millionaires who live a super high class life (for those lucky few). The one downside reported a chinese elite said the government owns too many companies and not a free-market to compete with them.

a reply to: Kojiro

I thought this was a business/geopolitical thread; and the thumpers wonder why people dislike them so much….

I only have one statement for the lot of them : I CANT WAIT FOR THEM TO MEET THEIR GOD!

They been doing this for a long time now and it is catching up to them. When 800 million live on 100 bucks a month there isn't much left to spend in a mall....

China has been living an artificial existence totally created by the government to maximize their growth compared to the western world, but they have very few that can actually benefit from that growth, and so we get ghost malls/towns....

a reply to: mapsurfer_

Quite correct!

As the government had all of the people's money after the Cultural Revolution, they were the only entity to grow the economy. This has happened and the government has been phasing themselves out of some industries in favor of a more capitalistic system. There is still a long way to be totally free of government control (if ever) however they are cognizant of their situation and attempting to work out their problems to the best of their abilities. They have been tackling corruption very aggressively and continue to press on with economic reforms however, they do not have a manual on the best way to do it so they see what works like everyone else in the world.

All this pointless construction just to go through the motions of "flourishing."

a reply to: Kromlech

It is not pointless if they have a point and you just do not know it.

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Kojiro
Again, it is easy to jump to that conclusion however only at the risk of being wrong. Please remember, China as an industrialized nation is very very recent. As such they have grown exponentially and learned many mistakes of unregulated growth (pollution etc.). This could only take place with a world economy that would welcome the production of cheap products. They have watched from and learned how Japan grew, they are aware of the failings of their educational systems and are attempting to overcome them. They have a local population that are ready to grow in wealth and become part of the economy to become a vast middle class. Cities are being moved to make way for better planned cities (for example Beijing).

Again, it is easy to pour derision on everything you do not understand however it is wise to try and figure out why they are doing what they are than assuming they are just dumb.

They are not dumb they are just trying to make a buck like everybody else. Both state and private companies have been borrowing insane amounts of money to get ahead of the game and build malls, towns, factories ect. The problem is growth has not kept up with speculation. Something that happens everywhere. Now these state own companies have massed massive amounts of debt in the 20s of trillions range. And China encouraged this just as they encourage even the lower class to invest in the stock market by taking out loans. China has learned nothing because it like every other county on is greedy. The bubble always pops. No matter what country you are.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Kojiro
Again, it is easy to jump to that conclusion however only at the risk of being wrong. Please remember, China as an industrialized nation is very very recent. As such they have grown exponentially and learned many mistakes of unregulated growth (pollution etc.). This could only take place with a world economy that would welcome the production of cheap products. They have watched from and learned how Japan grew, they are aware of the failings of their educational systems and are attempting to overcome them. They have a local population that are ready to grow in wealth and become part of the economy to become a vast middle class. Cities are being moved to make way for better planned cities (for example Beijing).

Again, it is easy to pour derision on everything you do not understand however it is wise to try and figure out why they are doing what they are than assuming they are just dumb.

China has learned nothing because it like every other county on is greedy. The bubble always pops. No matter what country you are.

Now your talking. I agree with this, greed drives everything sad to say. There is no country that can say "we are less greedy than that country". But on the smaller scale, you can say there is a lot of good folks who take care of their family each day, regardless of where they live. What an awesome planet this would be if the average folks just could meet each other from all the countries and have a meal together!

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Kojiro
Again, it is easy to jump to that conclusion however only at the risk of being wrong. Please remember, China as an industrialized nation is very very recent. As such they have grown exponentially and learned many mistakes of unregulated growth (pollution etc.). This could only take place with a world economy that would welcome the production of cheap products. They have watched from and learned how Japan grew, they are aware of the failings of their educational systems and are attempting to overcome them. They have a local population that are ready to grow in wealth and become part of the economy to become a vast middle class. Cities are being moved to make way for better planned cities (for example Beijing).

Again, it is easy to pour derision on everything you do not understand however it is wise to try and figure out why they are doing what they are than assuming they are just dumb.

China has learned nothing because it like every other county on is greedy. The bubble always pops. No matter what country you are.

I did not say that China was without fault or that it was not greedy. I simply stated the the original OP was not as cut and dry as it proposed. In addition, I beg to differ with your statement regarding bubbles always popping. The Japanese had an excellent system which led to incredible growth and prosperity for all of their citizens UNTIL, the installment of the Bank over their ministry of Finance (central planning) took place. It was all downhill from there. The lesson to be learned is that putting a fox in charge of running the henhouse is a recipe for disaster.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Capitalist Chinese huh? And classes of people? I thought that contradicts what communism was about but I guess alot has changed since the Marxist manifesto. I get that they don't have a manual on the best way to do it, but there middle to lower class Chinese still live in bad conditions and until that changes any real advancement for their culture is diminished.
I am not saying the U.S. is treating their middle to lower class any better and there is little being done about it.

This is not a new story, but it's news to me.

Oversupply of new build apartments happening in parts of Australia. Not on this scale though.

originally posted by: MrSpad
This is exactly why the Chinese stock market crashed and the US as well not long. Way over speculation. In both the US and China you had building for homes and businesses that never materialized. In the US you can find huge housing developments that are completely or almost completely empty. Same problem in China. And then those loan payments come do. Sooner or later your markets crash.

originally posted by: mapsurfer_
a reply to: notmyrealname

Capitalist Chinese huh? And classes of people? I thought that contradicts what communism was about but I guess alot has changed since the Marxist manifesto. I get that they don't have a manual on the best way to do it, but there middle to lower class Chinese still live in bad conditions and until that changes any real advancement for their culture is diminished.
I am not saying the U.S. is treating their middle to lower class any better and there is little being done about it.

This is not a new story, but it's news to me.

Yes the Chinese are now learning to be budding capitalists in business and as their laws are not complete, it is a bit like the US was during the industrial revolution. They will grow and make some mistakes however not everything they do IS a mistake.

…and you travel to China how many times to justify your concerns for the Chinese middle class living in bad conditions? Is it possibly that you just watched some YouTube and TV on the subject and are relying on that?
I do not mean to be accusatory to you directly, it is just that, I hear this often from people that just have no idea what is going on somewhere and make decisions based upon what they 'learn' from TV. Almost all news is simply some form of propaganda these days so I would hope that people travel a bit and then form opinions.

a reply to: notmyrealname

…and you travel to China how many times to justify your concerns for the Chinese middle class living in bad conditions?

I've never been to China but thinking about going. Yes, there was a video of Foxconn in China which looked pretty bad (like a working prison) may have been propaganda but they were living at their workplace. I got no issue with travelling to China, but I still do my homework before buying plane tickets. I've had negative dealings with China's Alibaba vendors and had to pay quite a bit more than anticipating for shipping, but that was customs/DHL extorting more cash. I am not bashing China here, but yeah I will experience for myself.

a reply to: mapsurfer_
If you would like some advice or information on the matter, PM me and I will see if I can help you out.

a reply to: mapsurfer_

Can not help but wonder at the cost of maintenance or such mega projects.
Particularly whilst un-inhabited.

The cost of such - just keeps on getting bigger the longer un-occupied. It is a use it or loseit scenario.

So push comes to shove and there is a flood of humanity into these "ghost cities' .

How will the untested infrastructure cope ?

Will poorly maintained buildings become death traps ?

Desperate times/ measures etc.

Hope it is premature premonition ...

a reply to: mapsurfer_

The Chinese have been developing a peculiar brand of government and economic model that combines Communism and Capitalism. It is rather peculiar to study, but it's there nonetheless.

originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: mapsurfer_
As an aside from a different story I encountered today. Silicon valley is using buses to give temporary shelter to the homeless.
Yet, somewhere in the world there are empty cities awaiting humans to fill them. There is something VERY wrong with this system.
The best we can do for the homeless in America is to stuff them in buses. In China, there are hi-rise condos sitting empty. No one to live there.
WTF?!

This may sound a bit off beat, but I think when people start moving in these places, which they surely will, you are going to see a lot of international marriages living in these cities.

The number of international marriages in Japan continues to grow in recent years. Most of the cases are Japanese men marry South East Asian women particularly Chinese and Filipinas. Women of these two countries are thought most suitable to marry with for they are caring, friendly and hard working.

The above statement is not all that true though. It is now trendy for Japanese woman to marry foreigners. I think you are going to see the opposite in China with these new cities where Chinese men marry foreign wives. There are just not enough girls in China these days and even if there are, many, like the Japanese woman want to marry a foreign husband. In Japan, now we have complete communities of foreigners, the same can happen in China. Don't know, but it sure has happened in the States.

originally posted by: Kratos40
The best we can do for the homeless in America is to stuff them in buses. In China, there are hi-rise condos sitting empty. No one to live there.
WTF?!

You say the best you can in America, and then talk about the empty buildings in China, without wondering about the millions of people living in abject poverty in that country...

The Chinese government cares less about its own population than you give them credit for. There are literally millions of Chinese people receiving absolutely no state assistance, with no employment opportunities, no real standard of living, no adequate health care, and while the Chinese government is building all over the agricultural lands of people it evicts, it's selling off that property to naive people who think they've bought an investment.

The Chinese government is running the biggest scam in history, robbing its own people blind for the benefit of the upper classes - themselves.

When this all collapses the people will be hanging them all from lampposts, and if the government thinks their low-paid military will protect them (with their own families struggling to survive), they'll get a shock.