Seven other state flags with confederate symbolism .

a reply to: Greathouse

I just gave you the first star I think I've ever given you because at least you've taken the time to learn the history. I will however have to disagree with your assessment in another post about the lack of direct links to racism except in the case of Mississippi's flag.

The 1956 Georgia state flag was designed by a segregationist and adopted in response to Brown v. Board of Education. I'll refer you to a research paper published by the Georgia Sentate Research Office. Here's the preface, my bolding:

This paper is a study of the redesigning of Georgia’s present state flag during the 1956 session of the General Assembly as well as a general review of the evolution of the pre-1956 state flag. No attempt will be made in this paper to argue that the state flag is controversial simply because it incorporates the Confederate battle flag or that it represents the Confederacy itself. Rather, this paper will focus on the flag as it has become associated, since the 1956 session, with preserving segregation, resisting the 1954 U.S. Supreme Court decision of Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, and maintaining white supremacy in Georgia. A careful examination of the history of Georgia’s state flag, the 1956 session of the General Assembly, the designer of the present state flag – John Sammons Bell, the legislation redesigning the 1956 flag, and the status of segregation at that time, will all be addressed in this study.

So here we have strong evidence of Confederate symbolism being adopted by segregationist southern state legislatures in the Civil Rights era to evoke a cultural connection to the Confederacy, the states of which similarly rebelled against the rest of the country a century earlier for the express purposes of maintaining a system of denying civil rights to black individuals.

a reply to: seeker1963

Sorry i didint use your propaganda words, but really this outrage about nothing getting banned is true patritism.

PSA


Too much sniping and squabbling going on in here.


Let's address the Topic and stop the personal digs, Please.

I actually bought confederate flag from Annin flag makers years ago. The oldest and largest flag manufacturer in America since 1847 . They belong to ..........

In 2005, Annin Flagmakers joined with other domestic flag manufacturing companies and became a founding member of the Flag Manufacturers Association of America (FMAA). This industry organization is dedicated to promoting the manufacture of US Flags in America.

source

a reply to: theantediluvian

I will however have to disagree with your assessment in another post about the lack of direct links to racism except in the case of Mississippi's flag.

I agree there is semblances towards the confederacy. Because it was absolutely intended. The reason the rebel battle flag issue was raised was because of its "direct" symbolism by usage of the KKK, Roof and neo-Nazis . That was where this whole issue took off and that was the only problem anyone had originally .

Many of us said it won't stop there they will attack other symbols to in an attempt to stifle history . Most members denied that . Yet here we are ?

I would like to ask you an honest question.

Do you think those flags are still flying as a call for racism ?

It is my intention that the meaning of the flags have moved past that in our culture and that despite what the progressive say there was more than one meaning to the Confederacy .

a reply to: Greathouse

Isn't the red x over a white background the original flag of Ireland before they adopted the green, white and orange one?

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

I believe that was in the form of a plus and not a X. But you bring up an interesting point . The most oppressive flag ever flown in modern history still has forms of it represented today . The flag of the British Empire is still represented in the union jack . The flag of the Kingdom of Great Britain enslaved the world and put it under oppression .





Why isn't there calls for that to be taken down ?


I guess my position is take them all down or don't mess with any of them .

Why do I feel like I'm on a Sheldon Cooper fun with flags segment ? Lol

originally posted by: Greathouse
You're making assumptions .

I made NO assumptions. My entire post was QUESTIONS to you, so I would better understand your position and reason for the thread, so I wouldn't be making assumptions. I specifically ASKED you:

Is there a problem with that?
Is there something wrong with that?
Is there anything wrong if all seven other flags are voted to be removed by each state's legislature?
Isn't this thread a "complaint" of sorts?
Or are you stating approval of SC's decision to remove their flag?

I asked because I didn't understand your position.

Nowhere did I state that I disapprove of South Carolina taking down their flag .

I know that. That's why I ASKED.

But I will disapprove if the same reasoning is given for removal of other flags that do not have a direct link to racism .

And you have every right to "censure" the removal of the other flags or the removal of the confederate flag, for that matter. Just as the people of South Carolina (or Mississippi or these other states) have the right to "censure" the confederate flag or their own flag and vote to remove or change it.

I guess we're done talking about your original problem with the word censure?

As far as I'm concerned, yes. You showed me a meaning I wasn't aware of. I was wrong.

By no means admit I was right in my application of the word just move onto another subject . ( sigh)

You were right, though. I thought that was pretty obvious. I didn't "move onto" another subject, I just wanted to understand your position on the topic of the thread, so I ASKED the questions and now I do.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

I believe that was in the form of a plus and not a X. But you bring up an interesting point . The most oppressive flag ever flown in modern history still has forms of it represented today . The flag of the British Empire is still represented in the union jack . The flag of the Kingdom of Great Britain enslaved the world and put it under oppression .

Why isn't there calls for that to be taken down ?


I guess my position is take them all down or don't mess with any of them .

Actually, the flag that you have up is the first Union Jack which was when Scotland and England became one country, Great Britain, in 1606. The addition of Ireland into the union didn't occur until the late 1700s and in 1801 the Irish flag was added to the Union Jack creating the symbol that we know today.

Simple Diagram of the Union Jack

People have called the Union Jack an oppressive symbol, we just don't hear about it because we are in North America and we tend to focus on North American things first, rest of the world second. Though in recent history, particularly when Scotland attempted to achieve its independence, the issue of the Union Jack was brought up again.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Greathouse
You're making assumptions .

I made NO assumptions. My entire post was QUESTIONS to you, so I would better understand your position and reason for the thread, so I wouldn't be making assumptions. I specifically ASKED you:

Is there a problem with that?
Is there something wrong with that?
Is there anything wrong if all seven other flags are voted to be removed by each state's legislature?
Isn't this thread a "complaint" of sorts?
Or are you stating approval of SC's decision to remove their flag?

I asked because I didn't understand your position.

Nowhere did I state that I disapprove of South Carolina taking down their flag .

I know that. That's why I ASKED.

But I will disapprove if the same reasoning is given for removal of other flags that do not have a direct link to racism .

And you have every right to "censure" the removal of the other flags or the removal of the confederate flag, for that matter. Just as the people of South Carolina (or Mississippi or these other states) have the right to "censure" the confederate flag or their own flag and vote to remove or change it.

I guess we're done talking about your original problem with the word censure?

As far as I'm concerned, yes. You showed me a meaning I wasn't aware of. I was wrong.

By no means admit I was right in my application of the word just move onto another subject . ( sigh)

You were right, though. I thought that was pretty obvious. I didn't "move onto" another subject, I just wanted to understand your position on the topic of the thread, so I ASKED the questions and now I do.

Well then I'll tell you what. Post your questions one at a time I will answer them truthfully and honestly . They are rather hard to pick out when they are posted in a rant .

As I answer each reply one at a time will you return me the same favor?

originally posted by: Greathouse
Well then I'll tell you what. Post your questions one at a time I will answer them truthfully and honestly .

I believe you have answered them already in the thread. I understand your position now. I just didn't want you to think I was assuming that stuff about you, I was asking for clarity, that's all.

As I answer each reply one at a time will you return me the same favor?

I absolutely will answer any questions you have of me. That's what discussion is about.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Greathouse
Well then I'll tell you what. Post your questions one at a time I will answer them truthfully and honestly .

I believe you have answered them already in the thread. I understand your position now. I just didn't want you to think I was assuming that stuff about you, I was asking for clarity, that's all.

As I answer each reply one at a time will you return me the same favor?

I absolutely will answer any questions you have of me. That's what discussion is about.

Thank you for the civil reply . If I came across as short I apologize .

Do you think that the majority of people that fly the rebal flag still do it as a racist symbol ?

a reply to: Greathouse

I think what you need to realize is that the "I'm offended" crowd doesn't kick in on an issue until they are instructed to by mass media. Right now, no one cares about the obvious resemblance between the first Confederate flag and the current Georgia state flag. Maybe the next time there is an NSA spying scandal, or new torture allegations, you'll see pundits on CNN saying how racist the Georgia state flag is.

originally posted by: Greathouse
Do you think that the majority of people that fly the rebal flag still do it as a racist symbol ?

I honestly have no idea why people fly the flag, nor do I know how the majority of people feel about it, or their reasons. It's not really my business, and I haven't found myself having an opinion about that. It's their freedom and I support it.

I DO understand why SC took it from their state house. I can say I agree with that, but if they had decided to leave it up, I would have said it's their choice. I would have disagreed with it, but supported their freedom to decide. It NEVER bothered me before, but I understand those who are offended by it being at the state house.

originally posted by: Greathouse


Do you think that the majority of people that fly the rebal flag still do it as a racist symbol ?

I don't think it matters why people fly it. What matters is it what it actually represents.

About the most you can get from a lot of people waving that flag is that it represents "heritage, not hate." But what heritage are they talking about? Jazz music? Mint juleps?

No. The heritage it represents is white people subjugating black people.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Greathouse
Do you think that the majority of people that fly the rebal flag still do it as a racist symbol ?

I honestly have no idea why people fly the flag, nor do I know how the majority of people feel about it, or their reasons. It's not really my business, and I haven't found myself having an opinion about that. It's their freedom and I support it.

I DO understand why SC took it from their state house. I can say I agree with that, but if they had decided to leave it up, I would have said it's their choice. I would have disagreed with it, but supported their freedom to decide. It NEVER bothered me before, but I understand those who are offended by it being at the state house.

We must of got off on the wrong foot this time. Because I echo your opinion.

I do feel that South Carolina's hand was forced by people outside of the state and in the media . They had tried to reach a compromise one other time by moving it off the capital Dome.

But I agreed with removing it because it brought so much biased negativity to the issue . What I am worried about with this thread is that we are going down a slippery slope .



"First they came for the Idealist and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a idealist .

Then they came for the Conspiracy theorist, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Conspiracy theorist.

Then they came for the Patriots , and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a patriot .

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

No matter how they do it, which useful idiots they use or how they manipulate our feelings . I will always speak out because I will not let a quote like the one I paraphrased happen on my watch .

a reply to: DelMarvel

No. The heritage it represents is white people subjugating black people.

Only because you steadfastly refuse to look at any other explanation for the Civil War . You have blinders on and ignore all other information given to you no matter how historically accurate it is.

That in itself is why the confederate flag or at least the Confederate states should be known to everyone. Once the federal government's version of events are suppressed and the entire history is known. We can revisit the issue .

The Confederate Flag is a Separatist flag. People flying it for "national pride" are being moronic.

originally posted by: Greathouse
We must of got off on the wrong foot this time. Because I echo your opinion.

It happens all the time. I think I throw people off sometimes. I don't mean to.

I do feel that South Carolina's hand was forced by people outside of the state and in the media . They had tried to reach a compromise one other time by moving it off the capital Dome.

That happens in a society of people trying to make progress. Not everyone is going to agree, but this is one way change happens. "The people" make a lot of noise and something changes. I don't have a problem with that. Moving the flag is not going to take away racism, but at least it won't seemingly be sanctioned by the state of SC.

And this isn't an new issue, by any means. At least Mississippi's flag has been in the spotlight for a while. It will eventually change. It's in the cards.

But I agreed with removing it because it brought so much biased negativity to the issue . What I am worried about with this thread is that we are going down a slippery slope .

If all seven states decided to change their flags (which they won't), it's not going to hurt ANYONE. I don't see a slippery slope in any of the 50 states changing their flags' design for whatever reason they choose, including public opinion.

I think your concern is the "political correctness" of the issue of some of these flags resembling what SOME determine to be racist. If I'm wrong, let me know.

The way I see it, political correctness is rampant by both political "teams" and both of them will take ANY issue they can and make it into a political issue in order to get votes in the upcoming election. That's what it's all about, IMO. It's the game. That's why I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of a political party. I refuse to join a team, because I don't agree with either of them. And this has been a perfect issue to polarize people on. But I refuse. I support the freedom of the states to vote and choose, even if I disagree with their reasons or if they are "forced" by public opinion.