Bakers Ordered to Pay $135,000 for Refusing Gay Wedding Service

a reply to: MystikMushroom

well said, mystik

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TheBulk

Well a guy did do a video where he went to Muslim bakeries and tried to get them to decorate a cake with gay depictions.
They refused to decorate the cake but some did offer to bake a cake without the decoration he wanted.

Do you have an example of a muslim bakery denying a gay couple a cake and not getting attention?

That's precisely my point. As a non-religious person, it definitely seems like Christians are being targeted. There are no exposes or gay activists going in to Muslim businesses to request these services. Or did you not know that all these businesses are being specifically targeted for propaganda purposes?

In fact I bet if someone did start targeting Muslims businesses like this, the media and left would demand bigots stop harassing these good, Muslim people.

Bulk#. You say the exact same thing to include "targeting" them. You are exactly the same.

religious people SHOULD BE TARGETED.....they are the ones following the mythical words of a mythical being. your religion I do not care about nor do I wish to follow, that's MY CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOM. I follow the man-made laws of this land, not some mythical god(s) from 2000 year ago.

Yeowch! I'm also an arhiest, but targeting people just because you don't like their beliefs is not only unConstitutional (so obviously you don't really agree with that document) but just as bigoted as you claim other people are.

Here's a novel concept--live and let live.

I'm just curious about your reasoning behind targeting people being unconstitutional? Not disagreeing with you.

Perhaps jimmyx is speaking from the great deal of frustration that atheists have to deal with day to day in our cultures.

I wouldn't have phrased it the way they did, but I do understand the frustration. You must deal with a good bit on your own as an atheist right libertarian ...

you are right, I don't care what these people believe, that right is guaranteed in the constitution.....I however do believe that they do not have the right to force me to follow them. Abortion has been decided to be legal by the highest court in America. because their mythical god seems to not like that, they condemn all women who have one, burn down hundreds of clinics, and advocate killing doctors, and praising the people that do kill them.....it's their brutal actions, sanctimonious proclamations, and obvious discrimination toward people that do not believe in mythical god(s)

So if you don't bueve in hell, how can them wishing you to go there bother you?

And you seriously expect us to believe that somone has stopped you on the street, at random, and "condemned you to hell?"

because it's meant as an insult against my own character, which they know nothing about....here's a clue for all you good Christians....it's possible to be kind to people, have empathy for your fellow man, donate to worthy causes, raise your kids to respect themselves and others, and live an honest, decent life, WITHOUT believing in god(s)

I know. I don't believe in God and I treat people decently because that's the way I want to be treated. I'm not going around condemning whole groups like you do. You really are exactly like those intilerant bible thumpers, just from the other side if the coin. The only difference is because they believe in a mythical being.


And honestly, I highly doubt Chrustians are stopping you at random to damn you to hell. Has that happened to you personally, really?

I am NOT like the bible thumpers, I take no actions against, nor do I comdemn any Christians to eternal damnnation in hell
big difference

Bulk#. You say exactly the same things with exactly the same excuses including "targeting" them.

When was the last time one got in your face and "damned you to hell?"

I will target those Christians that take actions against people, that choose not to believe in a god.....do you understand what the contextual use of "actions" means?.....and what that implies?.....no one has damned me to hell, but, you might want to ask that of a woman coming out of an abortion clinic.

So you used as an example something that has never happened? You being personally insulted? And the made up burning hospitals for that matter? And you call them irrational fanatics? Like I said--you are exactky the same. Same self righteous justification. Same irrational and over the top hyperbole about imaginary actions. Exactly the same.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I can't help it ... I find the phrase "over the top hyperbole" ironic in light of the fact that, even still, when marriage equality is brought up, 9:10 the questions will arise about pedophila, bestiality and necrophila because you know THAT is realistic ...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Part of me wonders how many "fake" gay people are intentionally going into shops known for being religious to make a scene? I could walk into a notoriously religious bakery and ask for a gay cake, get denied and then sue. Am I gay? No.

It would, however, polarize people and rally the religious right around a perceived threat. A false flag if you will. I wonder if this has happened...?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Or, even more likely, people will try to jump on the lawsuit bandwagon to make a quick buck.

Occam's razor--a set of false flag conspiracies vs simple averice?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NavyDoc

I can't help it ... I find the phrase "over the top hyperbole" ironic in light of the fact that, even still, when marriage equality is brought up, 9:10 the questions will arise about pedophila, bestiality and necrophila because you know THAT is realistic ...

And I've never used those terms and I would agree that those would be examples of over the top hyperbole and would point out the similarity between hateful fanatics on both sides.

a reply to: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: NavyDoc

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Possible, but the Christian Right has more to gain from these lawsuits besides money. They can really whip up their own supporters and play the victim card. There's more incentive for a false flag gay cake op than a greedy sue-happy person.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Ooookay...if you say so.

By the same token, the left has every reason to do the same thing--to whip up supporters and play the victim card so are you saying that denied gay people are also very likely to be a false flag?

a reply to: NavyDoc

I know you've never used those terms ... But you also aren't the only person here who refers to over the top hyperbole.

You just happen to use it honorably

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: jimmyx

no one was forced to follow anything........they could have gone to another damn cake shop

The only people FORCED to do anything, and the only belief system FORCED on anyone was on the business......

How do people over look this hypocrisy?

"youre forcing me to conform to your views by not making me the cake i want, I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT, so im going to force you to make me a cake AND im going to force the gov to shut you down"

ok....fine......I want to follow the christian dictates according to the bible....I will be coming to your city and gather all the women up who have committed adultery and stone them to death....I would just be following your Christian beliefs...you understand that, right?

I see your understanding of the bible and new testament are severely lacking.......and also the stereotypical response

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NavyDoc

I know you've never used those terms ... But you also aren't the only person here who refers to over the top hyperbole.

You just happen to use it honorably

Thank you. You also are an honorable person.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Good discussion. Thanks to Gryphon for his polite and reasonable discourse. I do enjoy a good debate. Off to bed. Old wAr injury and meds get a bit too much. Good night.

a reply to: NavyDoc

This nation is quickly becoming a nation where you can only believe or think whats sanctioned...

And people like Jimmy and the many more on this thread that are ok with this decision are more then happy to have it happen that way...

it seems to me more and more that here in the US, were on the precipice of actually being persecuted if you hold any type of faith (unless youre muslim because they are afraid of them)

I wonder how gratefully they will jump for joy when all they wish for has come true, and the pendulum swings to someone else in power that doesnt hold their views, and its them on the receiving end?


Thats why its important to maintain constitutional rights, not violate them to maintain status quo

a reply to: NavyDoc

Here's a whole database of faked hate crimes.

People are invited to examine them and draw their own conclusions about which groups do the faking. It seems that everyone has at least one recently.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: NavyDoc

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Possible, but the Christian Right has more to gain from these lawsuits besides money. They can really whip up their own supporters and play the victim card. There's more incentive for a false flag gay cake op than a greedy sue-happy person.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Ooookay...if you say so.

By the same token, the left has every reason to do the same thing--to whip up supporters and play the victim card so are you saying that denied gay people are also very likely to be a false flag?

Lets not forget the reason the gay couple won was because they claimed bogus mental anguish problems like:

In their lawsuit, the two women claimed they felt “mentally raped,” as part of a list of 88 symptoms of emotional distress they experienced at being refused a cake.

The long list of symptoms included “acute loss of confidence,” “doubt,” “excessive sleep,” “felt mentally raped, dirty and shameful,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “pale and sick at home after work,” “resumption of smoking habit,” “shock,” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and “worry.”

Give me a freaking break...........Impaired Digestion?!

This isnt equality , this is a targeted take down .....with bullsnip premises...how effing tolerant.......

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Thank you, it's what many of us have been saying... and everyone trying to come up with excuses and reasons that have no merit

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TheBulk

Well a guy did do a video where he went to Muslim bakeries and tried to get them to decorate a cake with gay depictions.
They refused to decorate the cake but some did offer to bake a cake without the decoration he wanted.

Do you have an example of a muslim bakery denying a gay couple a cake and not getting attention?

That's precisely my point. As a non-religious person, it definitely seems like Christians are being targeted. There are no exposes or gay activists going in to Muslim businesses to request these services. Or did you not know that all these businesses are being specifically targeted for propaganda purposes?

In fact I bet if someone did start targeting Muslims businesses like this, the media and left would demand bigots stop harassing these good, Muslim people.

Bulk#. You say the exact same thing to include "targeting" them. You are exactly the same.

religious people SHOULD BE TARGETED.....they are the ones following the mythical words of a mythical being. your religion I do not care about nor do I wish to follow, that's MY CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOM. I follow the man-made laws of this land, not some mythical god(s) from 2000 year ago.

Yeowch! I'm also an arhiest, but targeting people just because you don't like their beliefs is not only unConstitutional (so obviously you don't really agree with that document) but just as bigoted as you claim other people are.

Here's a novel concept--live and let live.

I'm just curious about your reasoning behind targeting people being unconstitutional? Not disagreeing with you.

Perhaps jimmyx is speaking from the great deal of frustration that atheists have to deal with day to day in our cultures.

I wouldn't have phrased it the way they did, but I do understand the frustration. You must deal with a good bit on your own as an atheist right libertarian ...

you are right, I don't care what these people believe, that right is guaranteed in the constitution.....I however do believe that they do not have the right to force me to follow them. Abortion has been decided to be legal by the highest court in America. because their mythical god seems to not like that, they condemn all women who have one, burn down hundreds of clinics, and advocate killing doctors, and praising the people that do kill them.....it's their brutal actions, sanctimonious proclamations, and obvious discrimination toward people that do not believe in mythical god(s)

So if you don't bueve in hell, how can them wishing you to go there bother you?

And you seriously expect us to believe that somone has stopped you on the street, at random, and "condemned you to hell?"

because it's meant as an insult against my own character, which they know nothing about....here's a clue for all you good Christians....it's possible to be kind to people, have empathy for your fellow man, donate to worthy causes, raise your kids to respect themselves and others, and live an honest, decent life, WITHOUT believing in god(s)

I know. I don't believe in God and I treat people decently because that's the way I want to be treated. I'm not going around condemning whole groups like you do. You really are exactly like those intilerant bible thumpers, just from the other side if the coin. The only difference is because they believe in a mythical being.


And honestly, I highly doubt Chrustians are stopping you at random to damn you to hell. Has that happened to you personally, really?

I am NOT like the bible thumpers, I take no actions against, nor do I comdemn any Christians to eternal damnnation in hell
big difference

Bulk#. You say exactly the same things with exactly the same excuses including "targeting" them.

When was the last time one got in your face and "damned you to hell?"

I will target those Christians that take actions against people, that choose not to believe in a god.....do you understand what the contextual use of "actions" means?.....and what that implies?.....no one has damned me to hell, but, you might want to ask that of a woman coming out of an abortion clinic.

So you used as an example something that has never happened? You being personally insulted? And the made up burning hospitals for that matter? And you call them irrational fanatics? Like I said--you are exactky the same. Same self righteous justification. Same irrational and over the top hyperbole about imaginary actions. Exactly the same.

navy doc....you're smart enough to know what I'm talking about. you call it, or me, anything you want....but, to say that what these Christian fundamentalists do are "imaginary actions" is simply not true

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I thought everyone was about state laws, Oregon has state laws against Discrimination and you want Religion to circumvent the Law?

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I thought everyone was about state laws, Oregon has state laws against Discrimination and you want Religion to circumvent the Law?

we have a constitution that trumps both..........

Again, it was a hit job, the claims and accusations and "injury" by the gay couple is bogus....

i see no one wants to address those .....

a reply to: Gryphon66

It's not up to a business person to decide how and when their products will be used, or, if it is, I want to see it applied to something besides wedding cakes and photographs.

I'll be the first person to tell you I'm not the most articulate, so it's prolly my fault for not expressing the concept well enough for you to understand what I'm saying. What you're argueing is an absolute, so let me express it in absolute terms.

I'm #-faced drunk. The reason I'm still standing, is because I keep falling out of my stool. I'm irrational, belligerent, like I said i'm # faced. And I want YOU to serve me another drink. What you're argueing is that you HAVE to keep selling me drinks, and selling me drinks, and selling me drinks, until something bad happens. Whether it's destruction of your premises/property, destruction of another client, whatever.. You HAVE to keep selling me drinks until something happens..

I'm clearly pissed off.. Beat someone up angry.. Visibly irate, and march right into your gun-store. I demand you sell me this pistol and a box of shells. Again i'm visibly and unabashedly upset ; What you're argueing is that you MUST sell me that weapon. YOU don't have a choice, this purchase is going thru.

I'm a minority from the inner-city. I want to buy a home, because I want to start a family. I'd like a nice place, away from the blight of the city. I pick a home that is well outside my income bracket, and no I don't mean a loan that takes me 30 years to pay off.. I mean a mortgage that's a balloon payment on a property I cannot mathmaticaly pay-off. You know, I walk into a predatory loan situation (like what happened in 2006-2008) and YOU the loan officer/under-writer HAVE to grant me this loan. It doesn't matter that I can't make the payments, it doesn't matter it'll ruin my family ; It doesn''t even matter that this happens to entire communities.. You HAVE to give me this loan..


I know you're rebuttal will follow the lines of 'what ridiculous hyperbole !' However, this is the absolute that you are argueing. So I need to ask like you did me, have you thought this all the way through ?