Abortion and why it's wrong

originally posted by: TechUnique
Here is a short video I made regarding abortion.

I tried a different editing technique than usual but I'm quite happy with the result. I'm quite passionate about this subject. The numbers are absolutely staggering.. you can go to this site for an estimated live meter. They get the data from the World Health Organization.

In the USA, where nearly half of pregnancies are unintended and four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion , there are over 3,000 abortions per day. Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies in the USA (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.

Peace

Have a solution? No? Same thing as anyone else, including me, who oppose abortion to some degree or another.

The law does not beget morality. The law is justice. Is it justice to tell a woman she cannot do what she wishes with what's happening in her body?

Honestly, the removal of partial birth abortions was a huge win and likely one of the only ones that will happen for a long time.

wont there be more people in the world. leading to me being stuck in traffic more.

a reply to: Seamrog

Erm you have no idea either.
None of us men do.
So don't tell women how they feel.

originally posted by: Artbellfan
wont there be more people in the world. leading to me being stuck in traffic more.

More importantly, won't there be more souls for the Devil to deceive and devour in Hell? That was always my mother's reasoning for people not having children. That and, well, the end of the world and all. We are living in the LAST DAYS, after all........so, there's always that, too.

originally posted by: Seamrog


Your post, and all the others like it are such total bulls__t because you have no understanding of what happens to a mother when she feels a baby kick for the first time, or when she sees an ultrasound for the first time, and most especially, when she holds the baby and looks in his eyes for the first time. Your words are the words of a fool.

LOL!! Neither can you! ... you can only assume.

If a woman has decided to have a termination she will most likely have not

got to the stages you have described ... the quickening and ultra sounds.

When a mother sees her baby for the first time, and holds him, it changes in an instant, and suddenly that mother would kill you if you threatened her child.

That only happens if it is indeed a wanted child.

The LIFETIME of regret and shame for murdering a baby tells the tale of your lie.

Says WHO????

None of the women I know who have had a termination (technical term)

have regretted doing so and ALL of them without exception has either had

children, or gone on to have children

Well...this was a very interesting thread to read. Mainly because I just recently had to consider abortion. And I only considered it briefly. I've always been pro choice, but when faced with personally having to make the decision I could never go through with it. My boyfriend was the one who suggested it. Well, it wasn't a suggestion, really, it was an ultimatum. "Get an abortion or we will never work out and this child's life will be ruined." Was it my fault he didn't have a job and wasn't making an effort to get one? Is it this baby's fault?

I considered it because I love this man. But I realized that even if I were to make the decision to get the abortion, drive to the clinic, and even if I could lay myself up on that table, I could never go through with it. I tried, for the sake of my relationship and the love I felt for this man, but in the end he isn't the one who has to go through that. Who has to remember ALLOWING another person to kill this little innocent thing that's been created inside of him. It was so easy for him to turn his back on what we had because neither of us wanted to take the necessary precautions in order to prevent getting pregnant. We are both adults. He has 3 kids and I have one. We KNOW what happens when you have unprotected sex. Just like every other person out there who knows how to have sex. We all learn young how babies are made.

Yes, life can be really crappy sometimes, but does that give anyone the right to take away another persons chance at living? Because even though I've had a very rough life, I have seen the GOOD and BEAUTY that one can also experience.

Does that make me selfish? I don't believe I am being selfish. I'm not keeping this baby because I had baby fever or some s# like that. I'm keeping this baby because it's mine. Because it's alive. It has a heart beat. One of the first things an unborn baby gets in the womb is a heartbeat. Does that not mean anything?

I am a strong woman. I know that. I have been through hell and back. My daughter is 3, healthy, with a roof over her head, plenty of food to eat and knows I love her and would do anything for her, would give her anything she needs. And I will make damn sure this child knows it as well. I will work my ass off to make sure my children are taken care of. Yea, we may not live the high life but they will have what is needed to survive. They will know they are wanted and loved and deserve to enjoy a shot at life.

These are just my own personal feelings. I will never stand in the way of someone who wants to get an abortion. Regardless of their reasoning behind it. Because that is THEIR choice. Not mine.

What really gets me is that a lot of Christians are SO against abortion and a persons right to choose how they live their life even though God specifically created us differently from all the other creatures he had put on this earth by giving us free will and creating us in his image.

"Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."

Your God already knows everything that is going to happen. So why spend so much time trying to make people think and feel the same way you do? Just pray for all the lost souls out there. We will never come together as a nation or species on any one particular subject. Never. And I really believe that.


We have such a short time here on Earth. It's such a beautiful place. Yes, there is a lot evil running amuck but there so much good out there and beauty! i have been given a chance at sharing this beautiful place with another human being, of helping them see them see the good out there beyond the bad. Why would I want to take that away from anyone?

I apologize if this seemed like a rant. I feel like I said a little too much. Oh well...

a reply to: Baddogma

So, what you are saying is that in order for people to have a say on whether abortion is right or wrong, people have to take responsibility for the ACTIONS OF ANOTHER. In most cases those actions are "irresponsible", not talking about rape, but about the women who get pregnant because they did not use a condom and simply wanted to have sex without considering the real possibility of getting pregnant, and then deciding to end another life.

BTW, another "right" that has been given to those women who want to abort is that everyone else has to pay, through Obamacare" for the abortion of those women, without the consent of those people who have to pay the health insurance to cover the abortion of others... Once again proclaiming that the rights of women who agree with abortion as a right come first than the rights of others, including other women who do not agree with most abortions and do not want to have to pay insurance companies for the murder of babies...

Since when is the right of some people more important than the rights of others who disagree with a certain moral point of view?

If a woman wants to have an abortion, it should be her responsibility and her conscience who should pay for that woman's action. It shouldn't be the responsibility of strangers. Unless those strangers "WANT TO HELP HER of their free will". But instead people are being forced to "pay for the rights of CERTAIN women... Meaning only those women who want to abort, and to hell with the rights of everyone else... That's what it has come down to on this issue.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that they have been programmed to feel no empathy towards fetus, and babies. To devalue human life at conception, and as we have seen by the latest report from the Journal of Medical Ethics written by some "experts" they think that babies are no different than a fetus, hence parents should be able to kill them whether those babies have disabilities or not. In the mind of these monsters babies have no identity, no individuality which would be lost if they die, hence in the mind of these monsters babies do not have rights and can be killed at a whim from their parents...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

And those two "experts" are not alone in believing this.

“Liberals Are Disgusting”: In Defence of the Publication of “After-Birth Abortion”

Meanwhile i disagree with threatening the authors, I agree with the fact that despite these people denying it, what they want is to legalize infanticide. They even mention that infanticide is legal in the Netherlands... So I guess in their minds it should be alright to make infanticide legal all over the world...

...
As Editor of the Journal, I would like to defend its publication. The arguments presented, in fact, are largely not new and have been presented repeatedly in the academic literature and public fora by the most eminent philosophers and bioethicists in the world, including Peter Singer, Michael Tooley and John Harris in defence of infanticide, which the authors call after-birth abortion.

The novel contribution of this paper is not an argument in favour of infanticide – the paper repeats the arguments made famous by Tooley and Singer – but rather their application in consideration of maternal and family interests. The paper also draws attention to the fact that infanticide is practised in the Netherlands
...

blogs.bmj.com...

i could understand in cases that the baby could kill the mother and to save the mother the unthinkable must be done, and maybe in some cases of rape. But you have to ask yourself, after a raped woman decides to murder the child, does the rape, the suffering and other psychological problems disappear? Does committing another crime resolve the crime of rape?

What i find even worse is that many of those people who are in favor of all abortions, want to save criminals from being put to death for committing murder, yet don't care for the lives of innocent babies/fetus.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse



BTW, another "right" that has been given to those women who want to abort is that everyone else has to pay, through Obamacare" for the abortion of those women, without the consent of those people who have to pay the health insurance to cover the abortion of others... Once again proclaiming that the rights of women who agree with abortion as a right come first than the rights of others, including other women who do not agree with most abortions and do not want to have to pay insurance companies for the murder of babies...

Medical/health insurance is for all to have if they need it. It is not up for

discussion with any one other than the doctor and 'patient'?


As termination (the correct term for the procedure) IS legal

the woman concerned does not require the permission of any one who does

not agree with HER CHOICE


You and other 'anti's' have no right to try and force your views on another

she will be well aware of the other side of the argument. YOU ARE ALL

LOUD ENOUGH IN YOUR VIEWS AND CONDEMINATIONS

Since when is the right of some people more important than the rights of others who disagree with a certain moral point of view?

LOL!!!... Look at the irony in that statement!

originally posted by: Seamrog
Your post, and all the others like it are such total bulls__t because you have no understanding of what happens to a mother when she feels a baby kick for the first time, or when she sees an ultrasound for the first time, and most especially, when she holds the baby and looks in his eyes for the first time. Your words are the words of a fool.

Likewise

You romanticize and grossly exaggerate how women feel when they are with child. Being pregnant is not really much fun: your body is under great stress, your hormones act up, diabetes and hemorrhoids, varicose veins, too high or too low blood pressure, pain in your legs, in your brests, everywhere.

Sure - when a woman is with child and that child is a WANTED child, she probably enjoys feeling the child kick and move or looking at the ultrasound image of it. That's not because it feels very pleasant to have a kicking little bugger inside - it's because she looks forward to holding and raising her (wanted!) child. But if that is an unwanted child such emotions are absent, I can assure you.

In olden days, women did the strangest things to get rid of their unwanted baby: they jumped from chairs and stairs, poked (or were poked) inside their uterus with needles, ate dangerous and poisonous stuff - and many died, with their child, trying. Horrible. We stopped all that in my country in the 1970's when we made abortion legal. Since then, almost no women died of such horrible causes anymore.

In countries where abortion is legal - like in my country - the number of abortions actually drops on a yearly basis, even while the population grows. The explanation is simple: in my country young people are getting a proper sexual education, both by their parents and their schools. They know how to PREVENT abortions. Our kids know which type of fooling around with each other may get them pregnant, they learn how to prevent that.

In a heated moment, when the reality of admitting poor behavior becomes a reality, the easy way out is murdering the baby.

Poor behaviour?? Since when is enjoying sex "poor behaviour"? Pray tell me, when your wives got too old to carry children, did you stop having sex with them? Poor behaviour - well, if THAT's poor behaviour, I thank your God on my bare knees I was given a body that allows, no, INVITES that type of poor behaviour!

When a mother sees her baby for the first time, and holds him, it changes in an instant, and suddenly that mother would kill you if you threatened her child.

There is instinct and there is love. Instinct is very strong and it ensures the child is kept alive. But if that child is not loved, it is just kept alive, and since we are a thinking species, we can switch off our instincts. In such cases the child is aborted in a totally different way: the find it in a dumpster, and often already dead, dehydrated. Do you really think that is a more humane way to deal with the situation of unwanted children?

a reply to: PageLC14

I'm keeping this baby because it's mine. Because it's alive. It has a heart beat. One of the first things an unborn baby gets in the womb is a heartbeat. Does that not mean anything?

I think this statement coming from a woman who is pro-choice, and just had to consider an abortion speaks volumes, over some of the other posters here. Does her opinion hold more weight than others, as she alluded too it's all a theory until that woman has to make the choice with the baby that is now growing inside her.

An interesting and valuable post by an ATS member on this subject.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33



I think this statement coming from a woman who is pro-choice, and just had to consider an abortion speaks volumes, over some of the other posters here. Does her opinion hold more weight than others, as she alluded too it's all a theory until that woman has to make the choice with the baby that is now growing inside her.

An interesting and valuable post by an ATS member on this subject.

That's HER personal decision However its not a *one size fits all* problem.

As I have said in an earlier post that I personally know of a few women who

have taken the other route, some who already had children and others who

went on to have children.

None of them made their decisions lightly, or without a lot of soul searching,

they all had their reasons .... so I repeat ... *Its not a one size fits all solution*

a reply to: PageLC14

I often wonder, back in the old days when abortion was illegally done in makeshift clinics and back alleys. When most women either didn't have paying jobs or if they did it was just for what used to be called the "egg money" well who paid for these abortions back then since I am pretty sure that the women didn't have the funds for it.
Even back then when women couldn't have bank accounts and men held the majority of the financial power in the household, there were abortions going on. Who was paying for them, who's choice was it back then weather or not to abort. I kind of think it was the decision of the one who held the financial power over the women.
There are many stories from past times where women were force by the males of their lives to abort their babies..

And the fact is, the right to choose, and some people's idea that it should be taken away, is only the right for the women to chose. I've already posted the story about the mentally ill girl that was forced to have an abortion by the state. One of the posters posted back that she should have opted to to discontinue using the drugs. She totally missed the point, she wasn't given the choice!! It was made for her.

I propose that if we take away the easy access of birth control and the affordable legal abortions (both of which are being attacked by the conservative right), women would quickly lose any gains that we have made in the financial arena. And well abortions will still happen, they might be less safe, but they will still be an option, but it won't be the women deciding anymore, it will be the ones holding the financial power within the women's lives. Just like your boyfriend tried to force you into aborting.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

that was going on long before obamacare....
heck I laid in bed with a untreated broken ankle for over a week going nuts trying to get a doctor to treat it without a down payment of thousands of dollars! and I was having to pitch in and pay for the treatment of irresponsible people for conditions far less bothersome!
your problem is that the care you are being required to care for is giving the women the right to chose what happens to her own body, weather or not she wants to reproduce! but, I got a feeling you would have no problem if others helped pay for your petty healthcare crap that does nothing more than assure out that nope there's no teeny tiny tumors growing in your colon!

Abortion is murder. Doesn't matter how or why you rationalize the decision, it is murder.
The baby has rights too.
A woman has the choice, just as a gunman pointing a weapon at some one's head has a choice.
It is terminating a life, plain and simple.
That is my opinion, you are welcome to your own.
It is still murder.

a reply to: xizd1

Regardless if you think it is murder or not, do you think a woman should have the right to choose on her own to have the abortion? Because that is the argument that the left pushes. The right to choose, not that they automatically side with having abortions.

Such a tough topic...I'm pro-choice. My only opinion about abortion is this. It "feels" like it has become an acceptable method of birth control. That in my opinion is wrong, but so are many of the opinions of today's society. There are things that shouldn't be immediately acceptable. Things that should not be looked at as "ok" or "normal" and should be viewed as one of the many failures in life. Things we strive to avoid, things we try to keep from happening. Abortion is one...prison, drugs, etc. are others.

But our society has come to a point where people feel everything (nearly) has to be acceptable and accepted because if it isn't...and they do it...they are considered a failure for that period of time. Everyone gets a trophy, everything is acceptable, you have to accept everyone's failures as "OK"...I think that is destroying society. Abortion shouldn't be an acceptable goal or milestone in a woman's life, it should (along with an unwanted pregnancy) be avoided like the plague. Avoided like prison by not breaking the law. Avoidable like prison by avoiding illegal drugs and so on. If you screw up and it happens...deal with it, learn from your mistake but realize it was a mistake and a screw up. Yes...you were stupid...depending upon the circumstances.

You and I are failures at times. We are wrong, incorrect, flawed, stupid and immoral. That is part of life...screwing up and learning from the experience to become better people and a better society. But today? A black man is shot and rioting is ok. A flag pisses you off and you demand it be torn down. Our politicians lie and far to many say "that is what they do" and accept it.

We have lost our way in that manner. We are accepting bad behavior in many cases and excusing others. We give people a break and turn away when we should be yelling CUT IT THE HELL OUT YOU ASS!

Bottom line...it is the woman's choice and no one else's unless the "father" is in the picture.

originally posted by: xizd1
Abortion is murder. Doesn't matter how or why you rationalize the decision, it is murder.
The baby has rights too.
A woman has the choice, just as a gunman pointing a weapon at some one's head has a choice.
It is terminating a life, plain and simple.
That is my opinion, you are welcome to your own.
It is still murder.

What are you doing about all those babies murdered in IVF clinics?

Insert random made up "get-out-of-jail" excuse:

1 - Location is important it's not in a woman so it doesn't count. Even thought it's a same fertilized egg as any other.

2 - IVF gets a free pass even if we kill more to "make one", because the aim is to "create life". So it's either alive already or it's not, jus another example of having your cake and eating it.

3 - We should concentrate more on deliberate abortions, we can ignore IVF because deliberate abortions should get more attention. Laughable.

4 - other random excuse/

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Ummm....I guess you missed the part where she also said:
"These are just my own personal feelings. I will never stand in the way of someone who wants to get an abortion. Regardless of their reasoning behind it. Because that is THEIR choice. Not mine."

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

i could understand in cases that the baby could kill the mother and to save the mother the unthinkable must be done, and maybe in some cases of rape. But you have to ask yourself, after a raped woman decides to murder the child, does the rape, the suffering and other psychological problems disappear? Does committing another crime resolve the crime of rape?

What i find even worse is that many of those people who are in favor of all abortions, want to save criminals from being put to death for committing murder, yet don't care for the lives of innocent babies/fetus.

And in what cases of rape would you deem it acceptable to terminate the pregnancy? "Some rape" is ok then, is that what you are saying? Who gets to decide how bad the rape was? You? You've got a "rape checklist" or what? Is that based on a 10-scale? And if the person raped is someone you know, or even yourself, is there a different set of criteria for those rapes?

Have you ever been the victim of a rape and in addition to the horror of the ordeal, found out you were knocked up by the rapist as well? If the answer to that is not "yes", then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are attempting to trivialize a horrific crime that leaves its victims devastated emotionally and causes scars that in a lot of cases never go away. And if that's not reprehensible enough, you are also saying that terminating a pregnancy is tantamount to "murder", which is also trivializing another horrific crime. You cannot "murder" something that is not living. A fetus is not a living creature. It is being kept alive by the body of its host, and if it were removed from that host, it could not sustain life on its own. That is a fact, like it or not.

Is it "murder" when a person, brain dead and on life support, is removed from that life support and allowed to die? Because this is no different. In fact, it is even simpler than that...there is no person there to let go of. A beating heart is not what makes a person "alive", and by even suggesting that it is, you are also presuming to trivialize what makes a person a human being in the first place. Someone who is nothing more than a beating heart in a lifeless body should be afforded more rights than the living, breathing person who serves as that body's incubator? That is insanity.

Actually, all of the "pro-lifers" that I have ever talked to are staunch supporters of the death penalty. Very quick to support the ending of lives then, just lots of excuses for that kind of killing. Does it matter that people are put to death who have been wrongfully accused? Of course not...there's always some pat excuse for accidentally killing the wrong person. It's not "murder" except in certain circumstances that are subject to the whim of the self-righteous who deem themselves to be the authority on the subject...self-appointed, of course. Thankfully, those arrogant fools seem to be greatly outnumbered by people who aren't blinded by religious doctrine and still possess the simple common sense to discern between what is morally (and no, morals and religion are not synonymous) right and what is not, which is why abortion remains legal: sometimes, it is necessary.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

BTW, another "right" that has been given to those women who want to abort is that everyone else has to pay, through Obamacare" for the abortion of those women, without the consent of those people who have to pay the health insurance to cover the abortion of others...

This is patently false!

In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions except if a pregnancy arises from incest or rape.
en.wikipedia.org...