Abortion and why it's wrong

originally posted by: evc1shop

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: beezzer
I see a lot of people not coming up with their improved solution to the current system we have? What's your solution?

Isn't there already a solution in place like letting those who seek an abortion, for whatever private reason they may have, get the care they desire provided they have not gone past whatever current term limits are in place.

And, for those who do not want or believe in them, let the others live their lives without interference.

Why do we always want to force our own beliefs on others?

i dont know, ask the homosexuals.

originally posted by: Thorlongus22

originally posted by: evc1shop

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: beezzer
I see a lot of people not coming up with their improved solution to the current system we have? What's your solution?

Isn't there already a solution in place like letting those who seek an abortion, for whatever private reason they may have, get the care they desire provided they have not gone past whatever current term limits are in place.

And, for those who do not want or believe in them, let the others live their lives without interference.

Why do we always want to force our own beliefs on others?

i dont know, ask the homosexuals.

What does a homosexual have to do with abortion? I know some of the Christian population may be closeted but I don't think they are out picketing the clinics.

Hi,

Firstly I doubt you've ever been in a position where abortion has directly affected you or a loved one. If you had then you would understand what impact it has on a woman's body and not just physically but psychologically as well.

First and foremost NOBODY should tell a woman what she should do with her body that decision rests with herself.

You also conveniently avoid related facts - how many pregnancies do not go full term? Thousands don't, true figures are higher.1 in every three pregnancies ends in miscarriage, true figures for this are lacking due to the fact that many women would not report the fact if it occurred in the early stages.

You also don't consider the forced terminations - where due to something anomalous being detected a termination is proposed as the baby will not survive full term - again these number in the thousands.

And just on a social level such as young girls, women that have been raped or simply ones that have no way of supporting a child or whatever other reason there may be, are surely better taking the abortive course of action as opposed to bringing a child into the world who isn't going to be cared for properly, has to go into foster care or supported due to a lack of parental backing etc

The world is full of children who are forced to grow up in awful circumstances and don't have the parental support that us lucky ones have privileged from - surely that is a worse sentence which forces the afflicted individual to endure unnecessary hardships - prevention is better than cure and that's always been the case.
On this note there should be more focus on birth control methods as well which even first world countries are still very far behind on - if more people used preventative methods that would help reduce a large number of unwanted pregnancies - however one thing not accounted for is human nature - people always have and always will make mistakes therefore surely better to nip these at an early stage rather than allowing them to escalate and become insurmountable burdens.

a reply to: TechUnique

'Cause we need twenty million more people in the world???

a reply to: TechUnique

I fail to see how a woman, whom you have never met's decision to have an abortion due her personal circumstances, is any business of yours.

What right do you have to try to impose your personal religious convictions onto someone else?

The decision to abort is not something most people take lightly its taken usually out of necessity, which concerns circumstances perhaps you should respect not pontificate about. There are too many starving, uncared for and unloved children on this planet already and neither you nor your religion offers any solution to this problem.

However I do think that women who have the option of the morning after pill should be using it as much as possible so as not to incur this problem, but I know not everyone has immediate access to this option.

I'm actually a male not a female..

It's important to remember that it is impossible for you to find yourself in a situation where there is a fetus growing inside of you, and you're weighing in pretty heavy concerning a situation that's actually impossible for you to find yourself in.

Can't you see the problem here?

It's pretty misogynistic.

Again, i must stress that it is impossible for you to ever find yourself in the situation that you are judging so harshly.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
Because it's so much more compassionate forcing a mother to carry to term even though the doctors knew in advance it would be born with irreparable brain damage and most likely be stillborn....or so chronically disabled the child would never be able to survive without being hooked up to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and require 24/7 care even then doing nothing more than sustaining heartbeat functions and respiratory faculties until the money runs out or the caregiver can't handle the grief any longer.

You're right.
Human suffering is such a wonderful thing.

Let's outlaw abortions because obviously that cycle of preventable suffering is part of the "Divine Plan".

~ respectfully signed ~
A woman who cannot carry healthy and viable children to term.

Rub it in a little more, would ya?
I find it so inspiring.

Those are exceptions to the rule. Not all abortions are done for that kind of reason.

Personally, I'm pro-choice, but anti-abortion.

What scares me is peoples' attitude toward personal responsibility. The vast majority of abortions are not done because of rape, or to save the mother's life, or to prevent horrendous suffering of an infant and tremendous expenses if it is born. The majority are done because the baby is unwanted.
But what of personal responsibility? You made the choice, whether woman or man involved, to have sex. Women argue they shouldn't have to carry something around for 9 months that they don't want? These women are going to have a healthy baby, yet wish to abort it because they don't want it?

Yet they made the CHOICE to have sex. Seriously, to me, that is a disgusting trait in a human being. People who cannot take personal responsibility for their actions are the worst.

a reply to: Achilles92x

The Baby-boomer generation is going through who were conceived before the pill etc. I wonder if you asked many of them whether they minded being referred to as "My little accident" etc and those who knew they were responsible for unhappy forced marriages or were simply not loved?

Today we have a choice and we have moved on, but the number of unloved kids is still out there so perhaps we actually aren't doing enough to prevent unwanted births?

I notice today some families, probably because of benefits and free healthcare here etc, seem to think they can simply have over 4 children +. Without the benefits and unless there is a very good income, they are relying on other people to support their families financially. Obviously if you are in a minority group you benefit from increasing your numbers, but again are these 'extras' actually truly wanted children? It isn't just a simple 'one woman's private decision', but something that affects other people's lives through the impact of the support and provision of services that has to be provided for to meet these increasing birth figures. It is a complex situation with many ramifications.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: beezzer
Jeez geezer, way to go off topic on this one, these choices are moral decisions, you must live with your choices, but flags and abortion are totally different subjects, so not sure about the comparisons, my point with abortion is that we make it as safe as possible and we try not be too judgemental about those who have to make such a difficult moral choice.

Murder should never be an easy choice to make.

And with that, I'll leave. Nothing is ever settled with these threads, I know from experience.

Just wanted to give the OP some support. At least to let him know that he's not alone with his stance.

Have a nice day.

Just for the record, I too support the OP.
* for the smoking bunny, *nF for the OP.

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originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Achilles92x

The Baby-boomer generation is going through who were conceived before the pill etc. I wonder if you asked many of them whether they minded being referred to as "My little accident" etc and those who knew they were responsible for unhappy forced marriages or were simply not loved?

Today we have a choice and we have moved on, but the number of unloved kids is still out there so perhaps we actually aren't doing enough to prevent unwanted births?

I notice today some families, probably because of benefits and free healthcare here etc, seem to think they can simply have over 4 children +. Without the benefits and unless there is a very good income, they are relying on other people to support their families financially. Obviously if you are in a minority group you benefit from increasing your numbers, but again are these 'extras' actually truly wanted children? It isn't just a simple 'one woman's private decision', but something that affects other people's lives through the impact of the support and provision of services that has to be provided for to meet these increasing birth figures. It is a complex situation with many ramifications.

I agree its a complex thing, I don't want to make abortion illegal, I just think that our society is F'ed. It needs a moral overhaul. There is not nearly enough acceptance of personal responsibility in this country. As another poster stated, it's not like pregnancy is some randomly caught disease. These people ARE responsible--saying there are a bunch of unloved children out there is a poor argument. Maybe people should be more responsible with their sex lives--avoid sex of they can't commit to its potential results, or at least just use better protection! Avoiding sex seems unrealistic, but learning to use a condom every time and/or not ejaculate inside a woman is something people can and need to learn. Then when the girl gets pregnant, abortion is permissible in normal, healthy situations because the child is unwanted--because it may contribute to poverty or might be unloved? No, I can't agree with that. I respect your post, it was good and respectful, but I cant agree, friend.

I'm 22. My girlfriend and I have a lot of sexual inter course. I've regretfully had too many partners. I used to be entirely pro choice and knew that if I knocked someone up, abortion would suck but it would be necessary. I've changed a lot since then, gone from an atheist to very religious, disciple of Christ. I struggle with sex, still. Premarital sex is the vice I struggle with--the difference, now, is that I know without a doubt after deep consideration that if I knocked up my girlfriend, it would be kept (luckily, she is pro-life too). If her and I broke up, and I happened to knock up someone else--I would BEG the damn girl not to abort. I would raise the child myself the moment it left the womb, but part of me would die inside for a healthy child to be aborted because of my and a girl's CHOICE to have sex, especially if improper birth control methods were part of it.

Edit: my mom told me I was a "surprise" baby. It doesn't bring me down. I--and everyone--can be positive and positively define themselves, whether they are a product of accidental conception or even rape.

I don't care what anyone else on here has said: a child conceived by rape is not a physical manifestation of the rape! The mother needs help if that's her attitude toward an innocent unborn child. Hopefully she's getting vital help, rape is a horrendous evil, but if a therapist or group supports the idea that the child is a product of the evil action, they are seriously depraved.

originally posted by: Canneloni23
Hi,
Firstly I doubt you've ever been in a position where abortion has directly affected you or a loved one. If you had then you would understand what impact it has on a woman's body and not just physically but psychologically as well.

And its never an easy decision taken lightly .

First and foremost NOBODY should tell a woman what she should do with her body that decision rests with herself.

You also conveniently avoid related facts - how many pregnancies do not go to full term?
Thousands don't, true figures are higher. 1 in every three pregnancies ends in miscarriage
true figures for this are lacking due to the fact that many women would not report the fact
if it occurred in the early stages.

A fact which often gets lost in the mix!!


Welcome to ATS.

originally posted by: RickinVa

I only have 1 question for those against abortion:

Exactly how many unwanted children have you personally adopted?

Two.

After all, if you insist that a mother keep an unborn child that she knows she can't take care of, you would be the first in line to adopt it and raise it as your own, correct?

I thought you only had one question, but I'll answer these for your edification. No one insists a mother keep an unborn child. There are MANY families (mom, dad, married) looking to adopt. What the pro-life movement insists is that a mother not murder the child in her womb. That child is a distinct, separate LIFE, and as such is entitled to the God-given right to life.

Since you are totally unaware, adoption is expensive. Our two were about $40k each, not counting the expense of traveling to the birth mother and staying in that jursidiction until you have approval to leave the state. In one case, it was three weeks - in the other it was more than four.

And yes, we were the first in line to adopt these children, and we may do it again.

Or is it quite acceptable in your opinion, if abortion was made illegal across the world, all the sick, deformed, malnourished etc children would just lead a peachy keen life while you sit back in your private little world preaching about the evils of abortion?

Because a child's life may not fit your definition of what is acceptable, why should that child be deprived of his or her LIFE?

In my opinion, not only is it acceptable, it is undeniable that all children be given their right to breathe - even if it is for a short while, or even if they may have life struggles. We ALL have life struggle. Some chose to sit and wallow in them behind a keyboard, and some rise above it and shine Light in the darkness.

I have no dog in this hunt, I just find it incredibly hypocritical that someone who professes to be against abortion does not take the other side of the coin and adopt a baby that has no one to care for it.

We ALL have a dog in this fight, though you do not realize it. Any society that justifies the murder of innocents is spiraling towards its own demise. Moral relativism will catch up with you, and only the strong, the cruel, the savage and the deviant will have their way. Look at what is happening across Europe, and look what is crawling out of the woodwork here in America, but I digress. To answer your point directly, there is NO hypocrisy here, my wife and I practice what we 'preach.'

I find it incredibly base, shallow and self serving that one would cast aspersions at those who defend the right to LIFE as if they were, or ever could be for that matter, correct. You are wrong. You are DEAD wrong.

I have yet to meet an anti-abortionist who has actually adopted children to save them from a life of despair. I am sure there are a few out there, but they would be the vast minority of those that take the anti-abortion stance.

I am confident this is not true. Like many things, you are also wrong about this. What a pleasure it would be for me to show you my face, look you in the eye and tell you how DEAD wrong you are.

Two of my children are LIVING proof of your ignorance.

The answer seems pretty simple to me: "no person may be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."


If it's a person then the state has an interest in protecting it's rights like any other person.

If it's not, then abortion is no more a moral issue than clipping your toenails.


Therein lies the rub.

Tell me op how many kids have you adopted?.
Lets sort out the hundreds of thousands of kids who are unwanted who actually live now eh?.
You ban abortion who is going to look after the million more unwanted kids?.

c'mon guys!

think about it.. if every unwanted or unsustainable (?) baby will delivered to State... WOW.. we can have big elite armies like turkish Janissaries, wich only family is the Government and the Army... Wow...

I'm wondering why US government (and many others) don't make it.. or they do

originally posted by: boymonkey74


You ban abortion who is going to look after the million more unwanted kids?.

You're right. We should murder them. I'll be much more convenient and humane.

While we're at it, let's follow your logic and get rid of all those unwanted kids who are currently breathing. They're a problem to us and they're not happy anyway so let's round them up and start saving some real money.

It'll be win-win. They don't have to be unhappy anymore and we don't have to deal with them.

We could corral them all up, and find some cattle cars and use trains to ship them.....




This is all the culture of DEATH.

This is a rather delicate subject for men as well.

It all starts at the moment of ejaculation. If two consenting adults conceive a child without using contraceptives then who's to blame?

Sure many women will say "my body my choice" and the father has nothing to do with it, despite the fact that the both parties did not use prophylactics. If both parties were irresponsible and contraceptives weren't used then why do women get the final say? it takes two to tango and the irresponsibility of adults is not helping.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Well the woman DOES have to carry the child for nine months. Said child is going to be taking nutrients she is putting into her body for itself, it's weight will cause the woman not to be as mobile, she'll have to change her lifestyle, her body goes through changes. So while I DO agree that the man should be somewhat involved, I wouldn't say that the man should have 50% input. I'd give the woman overriding authority no matter what.