Gun Violence does not matter.

I'd like you to just open your mind to a few things that I will say, gun issues in america are talked about a lot, but that doesn't mean they are important. In america media is used to publicize terror and eye-catching news, not so much the important stuff,lets say you saw a headline that said "27 dead, 18 children" you undoubtedly thought that was horrible. On the other hand a crazy man with a gun could have ran into a cafeteria and before he could shoot he was shot by someone else. If no one else had a gun then there would be a cafeteria full of dead people. This is a fictitious situation, but it illustrates a simple point; Guns stop violence, just as they cause it. The reason you don't see this is simple "Entire cafeteria is killed" is a better headline and certainly more eye-catching than "Man with gun shoots man with gun", the news isn't around to inform you they are here to make money and the shocking titles win out every time. It is like clickbait, make it sound interesting or important and people will be deceived into thinking it is. You won't see articles, news reports or newspapers telling people of how many people were saved because of guns, only the opposite.

If your primary reason for banning guns is because they cause death then you are lying to yourself, or you haven't done the research. In america, the gun is one of the smallest offenders when it comes to death toll. Do you care about guns? or do you care about lives? If you care for the lives then you wouldn't care about gun laws, because the death toll is insignificant(calculations below). Anyone who tries to ban guns and then says their primary motivation for supporting anti gun laws is saving lives is a liar, if saving lives is your primary motivation then you would realize that guns cause a small amount of deaths and that you should look at larger killers. Need an example? Preventable medical malpractice kills over 500 per day, if every shooting in the US had a death toll of 50 then you'd need 10 mass shootings a day to even get close.

Calculations and sources:

First of all the US has about 318,892,103 (July 2014 est.) living in it according to CIA.gov, the death rate per 1000 people is 8.15(also CIA.gov). Now for the math,

318,892,103 divided by 1000 equals 318892,

318892 X 8.15 equals = 2614914.4

That's 2614914.4 deaths annually

Divide it by 365 and you get 7164

This means that every day 7164 people die in the US. This is an estimation, but it is completely based on statistics. Now the shooting you saw on TV had 27 deaths, this is hardly even a footnote for the day, not even noticeable. So why is it that we talk about it so much? The sandy hook shooting actually had the president making speeches about gun laws, when the death count was minuscule.

Now if I go onto FBI.gov and look at the crime statistics there is a section called "Murder and non-negligent manslaughter" this includes all gun deaths and more. The total for the year of 2011 was 14,612, 14,612 divided by 365 is 40.

So all Murder and non-negligent manslaughter crimes cause 40 deaths per day, now 7000 divided by 40 = 175.

Do you understand what that means? Murder and non-negligent manslaughter crimes make up 1/175th of total deaths per day. That is 1 over 175, if you do the calculation of 1 over 175 you get 0.5714%.

That is correct, all Murder and non-negligent manslaughter crimes make up 0.5714% of the daily death toll.

(Sorry for poor grammar and sorry if I came across rudely)

www.cia.gov...

www.fbi.gov...

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Yeah, I've written about this too. Not particularly in terms of gun issues (you're right though) but in terms of the culture where certain deaths are taken and elevated in terms of media coverage and political reaction. If a gun murder is cross racial for instance, we are way more likely to hear about it. That gives us a really distorted picture of what's happening out there. If you're young and healthy for instance, what you really need to worry about is wearing your seatbelt and driving safely.

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Gun violence matters a great deal to those with an agenda or Politicos who use their status to sway those on the fence, or simply people to lazy to research the topic. I have delved into research on both sides of the discussion, and come away with a basic factoid: gun sales have risen, ownership appears to be increasing, and the crime rate has been in decline since the early 90's.

http:/www.theacru.org/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

Thank you for your logical post. Unfortunately the anti 2nd amendment crowd does not care for facts, it's about feelings. The same crew who cares about the size of your soda and how much salt is in that taco your eating. It's all about control, all the great dictators of the world love control. We have them right here in America, mayors against guns? Soros backed groups? Wake up America!

There are websites that document every defensive gun use that happens. One thing that those statistics don't discuss (because it's not politically correct) is that outside of the gang-ridden black ghettos in most cities, you're a lot safer than the total gun homicides suggests. Even in a marginal neighborhood like the one I used to live in, I felt safe most of the time (not always). Mostly working people, but with some transients, dealers, and hoes, so of course I had to be ready for trouble at night. It's gotten worse since I left. The threats in a lot of areas is small. But nowhere is really safe any more.
a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Nice post. They always conveniently leave out the population numbers. It's comical, too, when European bash us for our guns. Irony....British are the reason we have them in the first place.

Dear Noble casserole ....

Try shooting yourself in the foot ,


... then in a couple of weeks
let us know how life is going
because gun violence DOESN'T matter ?!?!?!?!?!?

Go ask a few victims about it !

If NOBODY had a gun ....

and/or a huge drug problem
life in your country would be SOOOOO
much better .

...but what would I know ?
I live in a country that has things under control
and life is GOOD !

a reply to: radarloveguy

There are quite a few problems with this Country, firearms are not one though.

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

There are different ways to make the statistical argument, but yes, I'm largely in agreement with you. In the case of firearms, considering that it would literally take around a century of firearm-related homicides at the current rate to make up just one percent of legal, law-abiding gun owners in the country, it seems pretty damn unreasonable to me to punish everyone with restrictions on their rights on the basis of the relative few dimwits who can't act like civilized human beings. Simply put, perspective matters. In a society of over 300 million people, any activity that involves a degree of risk is inevitably going to involve a fair number of fatalities, whether accidental or otherwise. No matter how much nanny state BS you mandate or how many layers of bubble wrap you force people to wear, its an unfortunate fact of life.

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

It seems so obvious when you use simple logic to interpret available statistics accurately instead of manipulative sophistry to engender fear and hatred.

Only a religion could be so dismissive of plain-as-day facts.

S&F

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Violence matters. Whether its a knife, car, gun or the Boston Bombing pressure cooker.

Also..in Detroit...someone killed somebody with a CROCK POT!

Violence...not the methods to commit it.

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Great post.

I have always said its not about saving lives, which seems to be the battle cry of the anti-gun groups. "If it saves one life, it is worth it." That just doesn't work. If you want to ban a mechanical device in the name of saving lives you should ban all forms of personal transportation. That would save a heck of a lot more lives every year than banning guns ever could. But that wont happen because banning guns affects "the other guy" and banning personal transportation would be financially inconvenient. And there it is, money wins over life.

Gun violence is a problem of inner cities and inner cities alone. Period.

It's amusing that the only time we hear about it though is when a white shooter commits a crime. These cases are much more rare and a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering numbers of black on black murder.

It's not PC to talk about these deaths.

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that inner city blacks who are killed by other black's lives do not matter.

The media does not want you to see, and therefore does not cover "Gun saved a life" stories. If you care to look hard enough, there are dozens of these stories monthly. Occasionally, they even have surveillance video of the good guy with a gun, saving a bunch of people from the bad guy with a gun. But, you're not gonna see it on the MSM because their masters don't want you to see it. That would not play into their agenda very well. And to those who would say, "take away all the guns, make them all illegal, and we'll be a much safer place," I say this, I'm pretty sure murder has been illegal for a very long time and bad people still do it every day.

a reply to: radarloveguy

I am not saying gun violence does not exist, I am saying it is insignificant. If I shot myself in the foot I would notice it, it would make a difference to me, but if everyone got riled up about it what would that accomplish?

You use "Go ask a few victims about it" as a valid point to your argument, when there are more victims of medical malpractice. So I ask you, why should we focus on the 0.57% that are killed via Murder and non-negligent manslaughter when 14% are killed by preventable medical malpractice? That is fact, 40 people die by Murder and non-negligent manslaughter every day and you are asking me how the victims feel? How about the victims of Malpractice? that amounts to 500 per day.

I can see you've been on this site since 2009, so just please listen. If you care about human lives and want to make an effort towards saving them, you will not care about gun laws. The reason for this is because if you care for human lives you will try to save the largest amount, which cannot be done through restricting guns. If saving lives or preventing death are not you main concern behind restricting guns, what are they? Give me a straightforward answer, what is the motivation behind your stance.

a reply to: radarloveguy

So if NOBODY had a gun, life would be better?
I do agree, sort of.

First, you have to find a way to eliminate every gunpowder actuated weapon in the country.
Every. Single. One.

Assuming you can accomplish this, you have in fact eliminated ALL gun deaths in the country.

Great!

Now you have eliminated 11,208 deaths out of 2,596,993 for the year 2013.
OK. OK. I know what you're thinking, "Well, that 11,208 people that DIDN'T get killed by guns!!!"
Well, OK. You're right.

Suicide by firearm was the cause of 21,175 deaths the same year. Almost twice as many as homicide. These stats do not come from FOX news or Rush Limbaugh as those on the left are wont to argue, these are from CDC. Given these stats, you are almost twice as likely to commit suicide with your gun than to meet your death at the hands of a mass murdering active shooter with an AR-15 like weapon.

Now, the reality:
You said "I live in a country that has things under control
and life is GOOD ! "
That's great. We should all be so lucky
However, WHAT THINGS are under control? and by WHOM?

The reality is that the US has cities that ban firearms ownership of any kind within its jurisdiction, while cities very close have less regulation.
"Well, those cities should get on board and ban them as well."
I hear ya.

Buuuuuuuttt, criminals have not, do not, and will not care if any such ban or regulation is in place for firearms. They are called criminals for a reason. By banning ownership of firearms, you have effectively hobbled my ability to defend myself and my family from a...wait for it...criminal!

How exactly do you propose to eliminate ALL firearms from a nation?
The government sends agent to each home over a period of time to gather them?
That sounds and is...very heavy handed.
Let's suppose we visit your country. Are you 100% that ABSOLUTELY NO CITIZEN has a firearm?
Well, I'm assuming the law says citizens can't have them. I'm certain your police and national military do.

I am not being flippant, arrogant towards you, or in any way trying to demean you.
If guns did not exist, no one would ever die from gun violence, this is fact. It is irrefutable.

However, guns do exist. this is irrefutable fact as well. Unless you can conclusively and completely eliminate them from existence, there will always exist the threat of a home invasion by an armed criminal, or a robbery, or a rape, or a murder.

So the question remains: If we are to live in a society without firearms, how do you eliminate them?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Debatable. My post's calculations were based on Murder and non-negligent manslaughter, not just gun killings. If that takes up 0.57% of all deaths daily, I could care less about them. We as a society need to say "if we want to save lives, preventing murder is not a factor, we need take out the larger causes of death first."

a reply to: Boscowashisnamo

This is something I have always been annoyed with, if it is unimportant but the masses care about it then you can take a stance on it that will get you votes.

Unpopular opinion: Democracy is a terrible system, it enables everyone to vote, which should never be the case. Some people are idiots, that's fact. Anti-gun people are one of three things

1. Stupid: They fight for a cause in the name of preserving life when there are larging things causing more death that they could support i.e If they say their primary motivation is saving lives, they are liars.

2. Misinformed, or uninformed: They haven't seen the numbers and they assume guns are dangerous because they cause death.

3. Smart politicians: You've illustrated this point well enough.

Democracy is a poor system because Anti-gun people who are usually stupid or misinformed, perhaps both, get to vote. There are more people in the US who are stupid, it isn't limited to Anti-gun people, its just they are a good example. There should be tests to qualify your vote, if one of the question states:

Does gun violence matter and should it be addressed quickly?

Anyone who answers yes to that does not get to vote, because they are uninformed or stubborn. If they believe they are not we can provide statistics that say they are wrong. Even when pressed with facts people will remain adamant, I feel as though there may be a cognitive bias present. Like they've invested time in fighting for their cause and learning their cause is pointless or insignificant is a harsh reality they don't want to accept.

a reply to: JesusDontHaveABeard

I agree that if a criminal wants a weapon they can get it, but you make getting rid of guns sound difficult. Watch these three comedy pieces on Australia VS US when it comes to firearms, I don't support getting rid of firearms because it isn't cost effective and it doesn't save enough lives to be significant.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

If anyone is thinking about replying to this saying "All lives matter", well it that case put the money that you would put into enforcing/restricting gun laws into stopping medical malpractice, it kills 12.5X more people than guns do.

a reply to: TheNobleCasserole

Excellent facts, but you won't find any anti-gun types agreeing with you. They'll comment on how callous you must be to not consider this or that victim as somehow more important, because of who they were, or how they died. Worse, many actually believe some victims are more important, as if murder isn't bad enough. No, if the victim is in some group or class deemed special, the crime is somehow worse in their eyes. Forget elderly patients who die due to neglect or mistreatment in old folks' homes, or people killed because of a defect in car manufacturing, or people poisoned by crappy imports, or people who die because a doctor was drunk. Nope, gotta focus on those rare shooters! Forget about all for the human trafficking all over the United States, and focus on the rare cases where someone famous, and preferably considered right wing and/or religious is involved. What should actually matter is shoved under the rug, to make way for the alarmist stuff invented to push people to thinking the way the controllers want them to think.

S&F.