My first new topic and it's a rant about the UK

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Holiday camp prisons?

Care to name one?
Just one...


Not the ones I know of.
None of the ones my friends and family have been in.


I care not about the rest of your right wing parroting.

In 1990 my friend was in prison, they had a brand new million pound gym, the sort of tech that calculated how many reps and the like, ie TOP tech at that time.

He came out slimmer and fitter, sadly it didn't make his ethical choices any better and he picked up some good tips from his fellow in mates.

I'm sorry but giving in mates a TV in the cell with a games machine if they play ball while dining on better meals than the people out on the street get isn't a deterrent, it isn't punishment and this human rights inflicted crap is simply absurd.

Bring back National Service..

Maybe the punks who walk our streets with knives might be a little more respectful if they did 2years of that..

As for the "right wing parroting", I think you must be in a different part of the UK than most of us, what he ranted about are genuine issues that 'the common man' see around them day in day out. As for "I bet none of this affects you", nonsense, I'm in a mixed marriage and my wife , not myself is a Muslim yet the who are the people that give us the most grief daily, yup, Muslims of the Radical persuasion, spouting foul nonsense at us because they don't agree we should be together based upon race and religion..

And the moan about the parent with the multiple children is valid and has affected ME and my family. My wife and I worked very hard, we brought our house and the crash hit and we lost it, we never got it back but carried on working, we asked the council to help and they said there was effectively a 17yr wait in Ealing, so we waited on the list and its been 16yrs now, no house or flat of our own but we watched new properties being built and taken by families with 6 to 10 kids of whom only one family works, almost all are new to the UK as well. We only have one child because we could only afford that one child, we had to make careful choices, later on I became mostly disabled but we didn't think oh, lets make loads of kids at the tax payers expense!

That is what most of the families in the temporary accommodation that we live in have done and they all have their own nice shiny council flats and continue to breed based up the thinking "benefits are my right", these are people of all race and creed, all using excuses like religion, ideals that they can have as many kids as they like etc. Very few people now care about the system, they don't see why they should not have X kids and never work, in fact in many cases its a family trait passed down to others, no thought that the 'pot' which grants them benefits is paid for by the tax payer and its NOT ever lasting.

Sadly we also have the comfortable people who have worked or been privileged who live on the fringes of society, all intermixing with fellows of their own 'standing' who rarely meet the people they judge or show fake understanding for, showing care for the hundreds of thousands of illegals yet they would throw a fit if a detention centre was set up near them, they don't deal with the violence, the theft, the drugs and prostitution that these bring and lets not forget this is on top of our already extremely criminalised society. I live with 24hr drug dealers walking past in gangs, yes, they have a rota and even a dress code (sadly I wish I was joking), I've had to remove them from my block to the point I'm known to them and given a small amount of respect, I've done everything possible to get rid of them at danger to me and my family at times but you know what hurts, half the neighbours are their customers.

So please, don't talk about about 'right wing parroting' unless you walk the walk like some of us, if you do and still have that mindset then I wish you well, cloud cuckoo land must be nice, one day reality with bite you in the soft place..

a reply to: Mclaneinc

You just summarised the reality for many in the UK, that is how it is beneath the surface, in towns and cities here.

I live in a nice neighbourhood, in that it is a smart commuter zone, though even here there are, thanks to government directives of 20% social housing in all new build areas, social housing and that as you described has typical negative aspects. Thankfully here it isn't anywhere near as awful as other parts of the nearest large town though there are still the issues you described to a lesser extent.

I have also worked for years in front line housing and I have seen how people are housed and where priority is given.

People are annoyed about things, and it isn't ''right wing parroting'', it is a natural reaction to a society that is crumbling.

a reply to: MrCrow

Am I wrong in the stuff that I've highlighted?

The stuff you've highlighted look like a bunch of Daily Mail headlines , every country has problems but the extent of those problems probably isn't as great as the perception of them.

Given the choice , and I do have a choice , I wouldn't live anywhere else other than here in good old Blighty.

a reply to: gortex

Agree with both OP and you, I can't deny anything in the OP, still wouldn't want to live anywhere else though.

Daily Mail again. What has that got to do with it? I was venting about stuff I'm witnessing.

Example 1. A close (aged) relative has a fall in the street and looks like a broken bone. 999 is rang four times as the relative can't be moved and is suffering from other stuff which I don't want to get into. Two and half hours later, the ambulance arrives with two knackered crew. Off to A&E. Laying on a bed for another two hours because all doctors and nurses are busy. And the police-led drug overdose is being considered a greater priority. So is the young girl walking around wrapped in a blanket. So is the lady lying on a bed looking like she's on a sun lounger. Tests get done, X-Ray visited (met a chap there who'd been outside X-Ray for two hours as he'd been forgotten about). Back to A&E. Oops, we need another X-Ray. And so on and so forth.

I will spare you the other grim details but the turnaround from a fall to being in a hospital bed was 12 hours. I know, I was there.

Example 2. On a train home, pulls out of the station and stops after about a four hundred yards. Driver (paraphrased): "Good evening ladies and gentlemen but I'm afraid the points have sent us down the wrong track. We are going to have to reverse back to the station". Off we go. Driver (paraphrased): "I'm sorry ladies and gentlemen, but this train is now being terminated".

Example 3: 7AM. "Don't move!". 10 police and the door of the house opposite is smashed open. Man is led out in handcuffs. Two days later, the resident of aforementioned house is back in a Beamer with what looks like his mother to clean the house out. We learn later that a large amount of cannabis was being grown. Now, I don't profess to being any legal genius but, in my opinion, he shouldn't have been let our that quickly.

originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner
a reply to: gortex

Agree with both OP and you, I can't deny anything in the OP, still wouldn't want to live anywhere else though.

No, I wouldn't like to live anywhere else either although, while the weather is this hot, NW Scotland looks more inviting. Having said that, my post isn't about not wanting to live in this country; rather, it was more about stuff I see as being wrong with it.

a reply to: MrCrow

I understand, but it does smack of first world problems.

That being said, unchecked immigration will lead us to being a third world country pretty damn quick.

My experiences of immigrants have generally been watching them drag their new 50inch plasma TV out of their shiny new car, into their newly built home, whilst friends with kids are unable to get a place to raise their children. I have had friends directly told, you've been denied benefits, because you're white British. If you were an immigrant you would be given benefits.

Now that's just plain wrong.

I also think we should have the option to opt out of the social system, if it becomes apparent it is no longer fit for purpose or doing the job it was intended to do ie. CARING FOR THE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY THAT PRODUCE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Almost agree with the lot, we seem to be the kid who keeps getting his lunch money stolen, and then too polite or scared or PC to say no you cant have it.

Not so sure on the tax thing I don't like paying it but cant see how the country could work without it. I believe it would be more accepted by tax payers if you could actually see it being used for the benefit of existing residents in this county rather than being put aside to pay £700.00 per month to house 3 immigrants in a 5 bedroom house a few streets away from where I live, who coincidentally are lounging around in there garden at 8 a.m while im out on my way to work.

Just look at the situation in Calais, I saw an interview with one illegal stating " I am going to the UK because they will give me a free house and a phone" You seem to have missed out the part about coming to work!!! and FFS coming for a free phone, stay where you are and I will send you a phone for free. Not coming to make a better life but to be given a better life.

Not all immigration is bad however. I know some people who came across in the 60's and they had nothing (had to borrow a saucepan to cook in), and the government gave them nothing either. They got jobs, worked hard, paid there taxes and bought up children with the same values. Now they own houses and businesses, to these people I say thanks for being a part of our country.

Then we have the layabouts and wont works, selling drugs is not a full time occupation neither is constantly stating you have a bad back, my mother got up and went to work for over 30 years even suffering severe epilepsy only stopping work when suffering 2-3 fits a day.

Anyway I could go on forever and im at work so I better go do some.

originally posted by: lucagt1
Not so sure on the tax thing I don't like paying it but cant see how the country could work without it. I believe it would be more accepted by tax payers if you could actually see it being used for the benefit of existing residents in this county rather than being put aside to pay £700.00 per month to house 3 immigrants in a 5 bedroom house a few streets away from where I live, who coincidentally are lounging around in there garden at 8 a.m while im out on my way to work.

Oh absolutely, but that's my point. If that's NOT what's happening with our money we should have the option to opt out IMHO.

Not to go too off topic, but I'm interested in why you think having an organised criminal syndicate taking 20%+ of your earnings is better than, well not that...

Does the government build roads? Or provide healthcare? Or housing? People assume this but it's a fallacy.

Healthcare is provided by people who wish to care for others. Roads and houses are built by people with the skills to do so. There wouldn't suddenly stop being a need for roads if the government didn't exist.

In fact, I think a lot more would get done. If you knew it was your duty to be responsible for yourself and your family/community, rather than having to wait for the state to decide it's time to do so, would you let potholes stay in roads for years, or would you be more inclined to take some initiative (as maybe the person who had decided to build the road in the first place) to get it fixed?

- Trains. The rails are too hot. The weather is too cold. It was the wrong kind of snow/leaves/ET.

I'm living in the UK, I'm from New Zealand and I can tell you you have one of the most comprehensive rail networks that I've seen anywhere and I've seen a lot of the world. Its true that the underground in London can get hot during the summer (imagine that, something getting hot in the summer?), but they've made massive improvements in aircon etc, you have to remember parts of it are over 150 years old, the oldest in the world!

- Cancelations/delays/cattle truck class. The driver couldn't be ar$3d to turn up for work.

I don't mean to be mean here but, I notice the English work ethic is pretty diabolical, recently there was a study done showing how even if the whole of France went down to 4 working days it would still be more efficient and productive than the English equivalent. One of the first things I noticed upon moving here is just how lazy people are in general and how reluctant they are to help others, even if its their job.

- Immigration. Anyone, anywhere, from anywhere, can get here. Did we deport them? Can we deport
them? Or is that too politically incorrect? Let's let the whole world in.

This is a ridiculous statement and totally untrue, perhaps for the EU it is, but I can tell you that both my partner and I had to produce a literal book of documentation of proof in order to get our visas here, AND even though we're a commonwealth country. We also have to pay £1000 a year each to have the privilege of living here and we still have to leave after 5 years, so I'm not sure what your on about here.

I do agree with most other stuff you have said, also the UK is far too PC but that is the general way of the English, they don't like to make a fuss if it will offend someone rather than confronting people.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I still think the "organised criminal syndicate" is the most viable option to make sure the majority puts in its share, lets face it if you gave everyone to opt out some would opt and and do absolutely bugger all for anybody.

It also means you could drive from an area with billiard table smooth roads in one area code to an area with the craters of the moon in the next area code, in effect a series of micro governments ruling/overseeing there own little patch much like the council authorities we already have.

Greed for money and power would eventually rule and we would have more corruption and lies than ever before, with us being fleeced by all and sundry rather than the just the governments 20%

Although you never know until its tried

originally posted by: jimmyriddler


- Immigration. Anyone, anywhere, from anywhere, can get here. Did we deport them? Can we deport
them? Or is that too politically incorrect? Let's let the whole world in.

This is a ridiculous statement and totally untrue, perhaps for the EU it is, but I can tell you that both my partner and I had to produce a literal book of documentation of proof in order to get our visas here, AND even though we're a commonwealth country. We also have to pay £1000 a year each to have the privilege of living here and we still have to leave after 5 years, so I'm not sure what your on about here.

OK, a little clarity then. How do you account for the countless thousands that are here illegally? I admit I should have been a little clearer but you can't deny the amount of immigration, legal or illegal.

a reply to: MrCrow

Yes, they absolutely should not have thrown the door wide open to the rest of the EU, I think that was a mistake.

a reply to: Mclaneinc
I agree with everything you said, apart from the benefits. They ARE my right. Yours too. We all pay money to ensure that we all have that right. I work a full-time job and also receive some benefits. If I lose my job, I will expect the help that I funded. Not want or need. I EXPECT those benefits. I consider myself and every UK resident to be fully entitled to the payments and free of guilt or derision when doing so. We are all entitled to a piece of the system that we all created. The stigma attached to 'benefit entitlement' is simply shifting the implications of theft from the very top to the people on the very bottom of the ladder. We act like recipients of benefits are the scum of the earth and that they're ruining our economy, but it's just not true. The corporations, bankers and big business are most guilty of fiddling the system and they take more from us than bottom feeding families, by a huge margin. Benefits aren't bleeding us dry, not even close. The super rich are stealing from us and they hide it by telling us we're stealing from ourselves. And we're all too eager to mount our high horses and attack those at the bottom in response.

a reply to: SlowNail

Try buying a patch of land and living a largely self-contained, low impact lifestyle providing for your simple needs through hard work. You'll get bulldozed, fined and generally crushed out of existence. In those circumstances compensation in the way of benefits is a fraction of what could be decently expected.

I ought to make it clear here for those that don't know. Live in a self built low impact home. Tent to start with and then maybe a shack if you've got really high expectations. You are crushed out of existence because of the old anti-gypsy law. No camping on one site for more than 28 days. Or planning regulations. No sleeping or cooking in your shack. If you try, try and try you might get planning exemption but it's an uphill struggle and you're already working all the daylight hours just to make it work. Forced into the housing market even if it's the last thing you want.



The way to get planning exemption is to call your simple smallholding
'An Educational Non-Profit Making Sustainable Research Project'.
A PhD in BS will help. You'll be on their level.

originally posted by: jimmyriddler

I don't mean to be mean here but, I notice the English work ethic is pretty diabolical, recently there was a study done showing how even if the whole of France went down to 4 working days it would still be more efficient and productive than the English equivalent. One of the first things I noticed upon moving here is just how lazy people are in general and how reluctant they are to help others, even if its their job.

A friend got a job cutting grass for the council. They gave him a truck and a mower and showed him his round. He came back in the afternoon and asked, "What do I do now?" The boss looked horrified and said, "That was supposed to last you all week!" One of the old hands then took him out and said, "You stop in that lay-by for an hour reading a newspaper and eating your sandwiches. Then take the long way round to this patch, then go back to the other side of town and slowly do that bit. Pretend the mowers broken down and spend an hour and a half 'fixing' it. etc. etc. etc."

a reply to: MrCrow

We all know this country has more than its fair share of problems, some of which you correctly identify in your somewhat hyperbolic OP, (a tactic I've also been known to use on more than just the odd occasion).

Once over I'd have picked over your post bit by bit.....but I really can't be arsed today - I hope that's more to do with the weather than of it being a sign of a decline into the apathetic malaise that seems to affect so many in our society.

It would be interesting to see your OP balanced with a list of positives about living here in the UK.

And it would be even better if you were to offer up some solutions to the issues you raise rather than just whinging and whining.

a reply to: MrCrow

Sorry fella, far too many issues to address in one thread, probably would have been better to have picked the one which winds you up the most then had a detailed debate about fixing it.
Right now your thread looks to me like it should be in the Rant forum and treated as such.

...I agree about the EU though lol, I'm waiting for the referendum campaign to start properly then we can totally pick that to pieces in robust debate.

a reply to: grainofsand

Ah, the rant forum - you're right; it should be there indeed. Sorry, my noobishness is showing. If a mod should be reading, please move this thread

What you and Freeborn say is completely valid - I should come up with some positiveness and ideas to rectify the wrong. I will strive to do so. But, for now, well... I have the cold (best) comfort of a few 1664's to sustain me so now isn't quite the right time.

So, in the vernacular, for now at least - peace;out. And thanks for the feedback, both for and against. It is most welcome. By the way, the train was shocking again tonight.

a reply to: MrCrow

Haha no worries, and interesting thoughts in the thread by the way, just too many for me to tackle in one reply!
Welcome to ATS as well, for the record I'm an opinionated twat at times, but love robust debate, so if we ever cross swords always remember it is about the issue with me not the person.


...I'm a farm cider man myself but I live in the Westcountry so I imagine you will understand.