UK bans teaching of creationism in any school that receives public funding

a reply to: chr0naut

If we do not know how life began then would the sensible option not be to tell children that we do not know yet as opposed to arguing about which unproven theory we should be teaching them.

If I do not know the answer to somthing I ask, if no one can give me an answer then I leave it at that?

originally posted by: chr0naut

There is no scientific evidence for Creationism as there is no scientific evidence for many theories of the origin of the universe.

Name me a single scientific theory taught in school that has no scientific evidence. As someone supposedly trained in the scientific method, I would have thought you were versed in what the scientific definition of the word "theory" is.

Creationism isn't even a hypothesis. It has no evidence, is makes unfalsifiable claims and is derived not from empirical observation but from religious scripture. If you STILL can't see the difference between a scientific theory and a creation myth I have to call BS on your claims of a scientific higher education.

originally posted by: chr0naut
I did not say that abiogenesis was wrong. I asked for scientific evidence for it.

You STILL have not addressed the blatant logical fallacy in your argument. I'm not writing in cryptic verses, I feel my words are clear enough so I am amazed that you persist in missing my point.

I also said there was no evidence for Creationism, except for the existence of everything.

On which planet does this sentence make sense?

originally posted by: chr0naut

I take issue with any theory taught as scientific fact.

Wait a minute... I thought you were trained as an astrophysicist? Yet you make the most bone-headed mistakes regarding scientific terminology?

I'm calling shenanigans on your educational claims.

The bar on 'what is fact' that science uses is particularly high.

Would you like to inform us what the scientific definitions of 'fact' and 'theory' are? Because it is quite clear you haven't got the foggiest. Here, allow me:

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.

Now that I have posted this, you have absolutely no excuse for making this schoolboy error again in your arguments.

Too bad it isn't reflected in education and legislation.

If your arguments are a reflection of scientific education then we are in dire need of an overhaul.

This may seem a litle off topic but I was reminded of this clip from Neil Degrasse Tyson on the subject of religion in science.

I have no proof of the statistics he uses but have never seen any reason to dispute him as a scientist.

According to his info the better the level of education the less likley you are to follow a religion.

a reply to: chr0naut

Are you that ignorant you claim to comprehend the initial conditions of the universe when ypu don't even know what the word theory means or the scientific method?

Neither of those are theories as theories are evidence based and supported by experiments and similar, at best what you claim could be labelled an axiom as you're having to assume something to be true in order to support your view - which is completely anti-science until the point a law is created.

In other words, it's a thought experiment with absolutely no evidence where all initial conditions have been invented by yourself to try and support your opinion. Which obviously will never result in the right answer.

There are meany hypothesis and theories in science about how or if the universe began from big bang theory to static state or quantum fluctuations or many worlds - none of them rely on a creator and havewell established and tested evidence behind them.

interesting, but more relevant: is Jesus who he said he is?

yt: Lee Strobel - The Case for the Resurrection
www.youtube.com...
yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
www.youtube.com...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...
Chuck Missler - How We Got Our Bible
youtu.be...

next they'll be banning the true history of science:

Descartes
"...on the night of September 16th, Descartes had a dream and in this dream an angel appeared to him, this is documented by his own hand, and the angel said to Descartes, "The conquest of nature is to be achieved through measure and number." And that revelation lay the basis for modern science. Rene Descartes is the founder of the distinction between the res verins and the res extensia, the founder of modern science, the founder of the scientific method that created the philosophical engines that created the modern world. How many scientists, working at their workbenches, understand that an angel chartered modern science?..."

Other scientific innovations that originated in dream inspirations are Kekule's molecular structure of benzene, Mendelev's periodic table by atomic weight, Howe's sewing machine, and even in part Einstein's theory of relativity.

and banning study of the scientists who knew otherwise:

“The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My mother taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.”
--Nikola Tesla

“(modern science) was born out of a Christian worldview.”
--J. Robert Oppenheimer “On Science an Culture”, Encounter, Oct. 1962

"My worldly faculties are slipping away day by day. Happy it is for all of us that the true good does not lie in them.
As they ebb, may they leave us as little children, trusting in the Father of Mercies and accepting His unspeakable gift.
I bow before Him who is Lord of all.”
--Michael Faraday, on his death bed, one of the greatest experimental philosophers, Doctorate from Oxford University, holding 97 unsought for distinctions who discovered Electricity

“Education is useless without the Bible.”
--Noah Webster, Webster’s Dictionary

“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being.”
--Sir Isaac Newton, Principia, Book 3

“I think in the first place that it is very pious to say and prudent to affirm that the Holy Bible can never speak untruth—whenever its true meaning is understood.”
--Galileo (Letter to Grand Duchess of Tuscany)

“The chief aim of all investigations of the external world should be to discover the rational order which has been imposed on it by God, and which he revealed to us in the language of mathematics.”
--Kepler

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
--Max Planck

“When the answer is simple, God is answering.”
“I am not an atheist, and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist.”[20]
“Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source.”[21]
"There is harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, yet there are people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me to support such views."
“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.”
“Coincidence is God’s way of remaining anonymous.”
--Einstein

“A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."
--Dr. Fred Hoyle (scientist who coined the term "Big Bang" who was unafraid to go wherever the facts led him, and who consequently recanted his atheism.)

Head of Human Genome Project, Dr. Francis Collins, converts to Christianity
"I set out to prove that my atheist position was correct."

Another great decision.... What's going on?
The world is finally waking up and getting rid of archaic crap of a few thousand years ago.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hate seeing the stupid rationale for science. Its the best answer we have so its truth.

ITS NOT TRUTH dont teach it or preach it as such.

Sick and tired of pricks ripping on people for believing in creationism. YOU DONT KNOW, I DONT KNOW. You have NO FACTS. You have EVIDENCE. It may be good evidence, it may be very convincing, but fact it is not.

Quit being dicks to people that would questions established "facts". Without people that question established facts we will get nowhere ever. The world would still be flat, we never went to the moon, we would be in caves still. So quit being an ass hole.

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein


Yep, mountain of evidence....That's why it is still a theory and not "the way"....Because of all the scientific evidence proving this theory correct....Man you guys just don't understand....

No, I'm quite certain that it's you who just doesn't understand. And even worse, you don't want to and have No intention of even trying to understand. Otherwise you wouldn't still be bleating on about how rvution is "just a theory" as if that
Means that said theory is not supported by insurmountable facts and evidence. Since its been done o death and even you know by now what the scientific definition actually is and the difference between the laymans/scooby doo version at this stage of the game I'll save my breath.

The only people who seem to think that evolution is not, As you put it, "the way" are fundamentalist or super conservative Christians. Primarily those of the American, evangelical variety. As far as all of the life sciences(biology, genetics etc. ) and the Eart sciences(geology, anthropology etc...) and every other branch that utilizes the scientific method are concerned, evolution is a fact. But someone like you who is simply offended at the notion that evolution seeks to supplant god(which simply is not the case but that's a topic for another thread) is unwilling to bother understanding what the science says or what the definitions are let alone what the facts of the matter are. And then to top it all off you rant on about creationism and how you can't have evolution without it and get offended when others say you are narrow minded without realizing that it's not because of the sheer magnitude of your ignorance towards science but because you are attempting To shove your own Christian version of creation down the throats of 7 billion people without taking into consideration how your personal flavor of creationism is just one amongst a sea of dozens.

Why is your flavor THE flavor? It's most likely because of who your parents are and the faith you were born into as opposed to any sort of testable, verifiable or repeatable data. All creation myths can't be right can they? What evidence is there that YOUR personal interpretation is actually accurate and all others are complete bunk? Do you have any? Or is it the unimpeachable word of the scriptures you and your family favor?

a reply to: raxusillian

So which creation myth do you wish to be taught in UK taxpayer funded schools?
Greek, Norse, Egyptian, Cherokee, Sumerian, Maori, Kumulipo, Hindu, Abrahamic Christian or Muslim?
I could name many more but you get my drift.
Which untestable myth do we teach our kids? All of them?
...or just whatever you believe?

a reply to: raxusillian

Lol sorry but creationism is fine if you leave it out of our scince classes.
No one has banned it but to be honest I doubt anyone with a bit of inteligence in the uk knows creationism is bunk.
Evolution ftw!

originally posted by: raxusillian
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hate seeing the stupid rationale for science. Its the best answer we have so its truth.

ITS NOT TRUTH dont teach it or preach it as such.

Sick and tired of pricks ripping on people for believing in creationism. YOU DONT KNOW, I DONT KNOW. You have NO FACTS. You have EVIDENCE. It may be good evidence, it may be very convincing, but fact it is not.

Quit being dicks to people that would questions established "facts". Without people that question established facts we will get nowhere ever. The world would still be flat, we never went to the moon, we would be in caves still. So quit being an ass hole.

I think you're confusing the word "progress" with "regress".

I haven't read the entire thread so please excuse me if my question/comment has been addressed and seems redundant and/or ignorant...

I don't believe in some white-haired guy sitting in a throne called, "God". I don't think God is even knowable or understandable. I don't believe in the Christian-Judaeo notions of "God". But I do believe in some kind of creative/expressive force.

I don't think this creative/expressive force has any kind of intellect or consciousness that we can even grasp or even attempt to grasp. It would be like a skin cell trying to contemplate what a human being is like.

So, everything was created with a big bang, evolution happened. Still, some force caused the big bang to happen.

Where do my beliefs fit into all of this?! I feel kind of like I'm outside of all the groups.

a reply to: MystikMushroomthe beliefs you have can be accommodated in philosophy class

1.
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

That's fine, but do you want your confused beliefs being taught in science classes at UK taxpayer funded schools?
...and if so, which particular creation myths, Sumerian, Greek, Norse, etc?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I haven't read the entire thread so please excuse me if my question/comment has been addressed and seems redundant and/or ignorant...

I don't believe in some white-haired guy sitting in a throne called, "God". I don't think God is even knowable or understandable. I don't believe in the Christian-Judaeo notions of "God". But I do believe in some kind of creative/expressive force.

I don't think this creative/expressive force has any kind of intellect or consciousness that we can even grasp or even attempt to grasp. It would be like a skin cell trying to contemplate what a human being is like.

So, everything was created with a big bang, evolution happened. Still, some force caused the big bang to happen.

Where do my beliefs fit into all of this?! I feel kind of like I'm outside of all the groups.

Your beliefs are well in line with what many people believe. So long as you don't insist on teaching kids "Something/one sentient/incomprehensible made the big bang happen." in public schools, I think we're all copactic.

a reply to: grainofsand

I don't believe in creationism in the sense of any organized or non-organized religion.

There wasn't someone who waved a magical Hogwarts wand and created everything. The big bang, science, evolution -- all of that is testable and knowable.

Before the big bang who knows.

I think religious ideas about creation can/should be mentioned for objectivity sake, but the core curriculum should be logic, fact, and science oriented. They can get a religious education at church and at home. It's to hard to please every religious sect at a public institution, so just leave religion out of it entirely.