rumsfeld says 911 plane shot down in penn

If the Airliner was shot down by the USAF then i don't believe they had a choice. Assuming that it was indeed downed, i feel for the guy who had to pull the trigger, imagine having to live with that for the rest of your life.
As horrible as this incident was, the people on board were in effect already dead no matter what and i don't think the Government had a choice. Terrible and sad but true.
I dont think anyone would blame the Pilot or the Government, the plane had to come down no matter waht, better it be brought down away from a population centre.
God what a world we live in

Originally posted by Amethyst
What I don't get is, why were they so bent on hiding it?

So why all the secrecy?

I pondered this for a long time afterwards myself. Looking back, with all the fear and uncertainty at the time I think on top of everything else (fear of more hijackings), how could they add to that the fact that if you are on a hijacked plane, we can't save you and we might even have to end the ordeal prematurely. I still don't think this is something the public could handle now.

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in, and even if we didn't shoot down that one to save more lives, I don't think anyone should kid themselves that in a recurrent situation it might have to happen.

I do still believe there were heros on that plane and the stories of them fighting back were true, regardless of how it ended, that should not be forgotten. I must say that I really expected a good flaming for even suggesting what I did in this thread and I am pleasantly surprised to see that others understand what I said, and concur with my conclusions.

Another reason for the secrecy if this happens is mentioned above. The poor people who may have to give the order and/or pull the trigger. Do we really need to know who they are? Would the press let it go? Would the conspiracy theorists not implicate them in something? I think not. Although if we did shoot down our own airliner, that kind of blows the whole "the gov't faked this" one right out the window if you have any sense at all.

I had brought this info to ATS back in July read the coments if you like

ATS
Flight 93 Shot Down by the Happy Hooligans

Major Rick Gibney did as he was ordered and did nothing criminal. He was merely following orders,
They, the Happy Hooligans, a unit of 3 F-16 aircraft, were ordered to head toward Pennsylvania. At 0957 they spotted their target; After confirmation orders were received, A one Major Rick Gibney fired two sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in mid flight at precisely 0958;
Link


Rick Gibney - 119th Fighter Wing - Happy Hooligans

Rick Gibney, as identified on www.f16viper.org...




[edit on 26/12/2004 by Sauron]

@ Relentless:

It's true, those passengers were dead anyway. No use having more people go with them if one can help it.

But--if the government itself was responsible for 9/11--then I'd be kinda mad.

Quote: "If this is true, it is major news."

Of Course it is True - but certainly Not Major News! NORAD was slow that day but - Not Completely Sleeping! They could not allow a Plane to hit the Congress or the White House! Come on - you didn't really believe the
"Lets Roll" story did you? Do you think that the Civilians on that Plane were so Brave & Heroic as to take on the Terrorists & Purposely Crash the Plane into the Ground?

I STILL think that it was a Missile & NOT a 747 that hit the Pentagon. The Government has NOT been Truthful with the American People - Lying is a Politicians Business!

OH BTW it is pretty much well known at this point that "Al Queada" = General Term for
"Islamic Extremist Terrorists"! After 9/11 the U.S. Media was Extremely Aggressive with Pinning it on
"Al Queada" but the Evidence that the FBI came up with was Extremely Flimsy @ best! Then when the Iraq Invasion came about the Media tried their very hardest to wrap it all up into a nice little �Crusading Package�! Believe me I have no love for these Crazy Terrorist Islamic Extremist Bastards - but the way that our
Corporate Government handled the Situation was EXTREMELY PATHETIC! The "Official Storyline" is FULL of many Holes & can easily be shot down by an Intelligent High School Student! For those who voted for Bush Fascism for another 4 Years Congratulations for being Asleep at the Wheel once again!


[edit on 26-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 26-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Very interesting.

Probably this guy refers to those terrorists who shot down the plane over Pennsylvania. How about those eyewitnesses, who saw the plane flying low, and it was in one piece and wasn't on fire at all? It flipped over several times before it hit the ground with full speed.

I am watitng for replies.

Originally posted by Sauron
Major Rick Gibney did as he was ordered and did nothing criminal. He was merely following orders,
They, the Happy Hooligans, a unit of 3 F-16 aircraft, were ordered to head toward Pennsylvania. At 0957 they spotted their target; After confirmation orders were received, A one Major Rick Gibney fired two sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in mid flight at precisely 0958;
Link

In the news they said, that he was instructed to destroy the plane, but before he did it, the plane was suddenly heading towards the ground. The flight recorders also proved that the terrorist caring for the "bomb" instructed the pilot to crash the plane immediately because the passengers are planning to take over it. According the data recorders, every movement of the plane was due to the actions in the pilot's cockpit, until the plane crashed. The fact that the pilot was able to properly navigate the plane with engines running proves, that there was no malfunction therefore it wasn't hit... especially with missiles.

I guess it is interesting.

The problem with lying when you know the truth is information overload, you have to keep two stories in mind, one to tell the people and the other to keep up with policy analysis. So you can't really blame Rummy too much, after all facts can be so confusing when you have to talk to the public.

Maybe if governments switched to the gentle truth, there would be a huge increase in world wide prosperity, well being, and basically doing your job instead being required to pretend to work.

Originally posted by SkipShipman
The problem with lying when you know the truth is information overload, you have to keep two stories in mind, one to tell the people and the other to keep up with policy analysis.

This is so true. A nice reminder to Larry Silverstein as well.

So you can't really blame Rummy too much, after all facts can be so confusing when you have to talk to the public.

The real facts are indeed confusing, haha. How bout that order to stand down, Rummy? Please don't confuse that with the widespread demands for you to step down.

"He who laughs last, laughs best"
Well, I may not be laughing yet, but I damn sure have a nice smile for starters.

Originally posted by Vertu

The flight recorders also proved that the terrorist caring for the "bomb" instructed the pilot to crash the plane immediately because the passengers are planning to take over it.

To the best of my knowledge, the flight recorder was never made available to the public, even the families of those killed. So again, you are going by what the Government tells you happened. There have been several conflicting stories on eyewitness reports in both PA and DC. This isssue is so out of control, even if the government came out and said it was shot down, people would still not believe it. The only way for the "Pentagon" issue to go away would be to release the videotapes from the Gas Stations, Hotels, and DMV cameras, but alas it has been to long and could be "Doctored". The Parking garage camera is still missing a frame, which could possibly show exactly what hit. We will never know the "Truth".

What does rumsfeld actually say in this interview?

I'm with you Amethyst, I believe that if the plane was headed for the White House the masses would have understood why the plane had to be shot down. Instead they lie to add to the "terror backdrop" and make up stuff that some people just cant swallow.


Some of us would appear to have hit this nail right on the head, (if this is true, of course)

Rumsfeld is a crazy mofo

I can think of another reason to NOT tell us the plane was shot down:
The story we were told about the passengers taking charge and getting the plane crashed made them heroes and helped take the nation's mind off the 9/1 tragedy, if only briefly.
The PA incident came off as a bit of good done on a deadly day.
Not a bad public relations job at all.

You get the story of the passengers rushing the cockpit because then they all appear to be heros and not collateral damage to prevent even more deaths. Most of the surving family members picture their loved one helping out to fight the terrorist.

The last version of the story I heard from the goverment had them saying planes were scrambled and Cheney gave the order to fire but that it never got through to the pilots

Just look were the plane went down if you go the order to fire you would try to wait until the plane is over a place like that and not over a populated area.

Either way it was the right thing to do you cant blame the pilots or the people that ordered them to fire.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I can think of another reason to NOT tell us the plane was shot down:
The story we were told about the passengers taking charge and getting the plane crashed made them heroes and helped take the nation's mind off the 9/1 tragedy, if only briefly.
The PA incident came off as a bit of good done on a deadly day.
Not a bad public relations job at all.

EXACTLY.

Look at the original seen if you can find it.
The plane was shot down, no doubt, several
Military and law enforcement know it. I am
in agreement it is better kept hush. What
good can come of it?
The occupants were no less heroes and
someone took action outside to prevent
anymore destruction. Yes horrible. Easy
to be a back seat quarterback after the game.
Let's let it pass. Or shall we use the pilot
that shot it down in the next Mel Gibson
movie?

Something that has not been noted here concerning this incident is the effect that the story of our heros on the plane has had on the general populace. Whether it happened or not it has made the successful hijacking of an airliner with Americans on board nearly impossible. There is not a redneck out there that has not imagined himself as one of those good ole boys saddling up to mohamed and giving him a bushwhacking he'll never forget. Should AQ or any other terrorists try to take over a plane with anything short of submachine guns and hand grenades they will find that Americans have watched too many rambo and Swartzenneger movies. They will go waterboy on those ragheads and open up a can of whup azzz.

All jockularity aside, I thought from the day that he story came out that it had permanently changed the dynamics of hijacking a plane in America and perhaps the world. It has certainly done more than any of the new security measures have to prevent a future hijacking. Bottom line whether it proves to be real or just a cover story it could not have been a better conceived or engineered security measure.

I dont know what to belive but a box cutter is not that scary, I have been cut by them couple of times one time at work on a lath.but up in the air it might be diffrent

Originally posted by slayerfan
I dont know what to belive but a box cutter is not that scary, I have been cut by them couple of times one time at work on a lath.but up in the air it might be diffrent

Not that scary? How about if it's already at the neck of a passenger in a headlock. They are pretty darn sharp and cut skin pretty easily. Used with enough force in the right area even a pen could inflict a fatal wound. Let's not forget that since 9/11 a few people have lost their heads with little more than a dull knife being forced through bone by the force behind it.

Again I will say I do believe the people on board did fight back. It would only have taken one person to get through on a phone to find out what the first three planes had done and once they knew someone would have fought back.