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originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: butcherguy
BG I will tell you one piece of information I look forward to hearing . After the first stop when Mr. Gray was taken out of the van re-cuffed and put in leg irons. He was then placed headfirst on his stomach into the van . Most of the time when your legs are re-shackled by police they hogtie you by connecting your hands and legs behind your back . ( that's what I want to know his exact position )
It has been my contention since Mrs. Mosbys press conference . That while Mr. Gray was facedown on the floor with his hands and legs cuffed behind his back. Officer Goodson gave him a break job which caused him to slide headfirst into the partition between the transport cell and the driver .
Shortly after Gray's death, police posted fliers around the area asking residents with video of the incident to come forward. A police news release on April 16 stated that when the van departed from Mount and Baker streets, video evidence indicated that Gray was "conscious and speaking." It is unclear which video police are referring to; neither the cellphone video taken with Gross' phone nor the security camera initially released by police reveals Gray speaking or moving. Gross said police never reached out to her for the cellphone video footage and she has not spoken to them.
originally posted by: Edumakated
originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Edumakated
He also said that his words were taken grossly out context. He said he heard banging, but not that he thought it was gray.
Big metal cages with moving parts going down a road at 30 mph+ are genreally noisy.
Yeah, because the snitches get stitches culture in the hood wouldn't make him back track on his words after it was put in the media that he was in the van with Freddy Gray.
originally posted by: butcherguy
originally posted by: alphastrike101
originally posted by: butcherguy
originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: butcherguy
Mr Allen stated that he could hear Mr Gray was "intentionally trying to injure himself" when Mr Allen was in the van.
By the time Allen got into the van Mr gray was well enough to be "intentionally trying to injure himself".
He also refuted that statement since.
Even so, could he see Mr. Gray?
Is it possible that Mr. Gray was suffering from involuntary movements due to his nearly severed spinal cord?
If you follow the timeline, Mr. Gray was unresponsive to the police officers when Donta was put into the van.
Mr Allen first told the media he never talked to investigators then later admitted to talking with them when he was presented with the police report.
As it stands though his account of Mr grays actions are on the record.
He heard noises, and jumped to the conclusion that the noises were made by Mr. Gray. He did not see Mr. Gray hitting anything against anything... much less his head. The noises could have been made by Mr. Gray's feet striking something. Kicking your feet against something typically does not sever your spinal cord.
An attorney would tear that up in court.
Mr Allen mentioned in particular head banging and kicking. While he could not get a good look is fairly safe to say kicking noise was coming from the bottom and the head banging was coming from the middle to upper section of the van.
Also safe to say that shoes hitting metal make a different sound than say your head hitting metal.
originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: alphastrike101
Yet, it has been mentioned by you earlier that Mr. Gray may have fallen, so neither yourself or Donta Allen know where Mr. Gray's head was, if he did fall. It was also mentioned earlier that he may has been repositioning himself in the back at some point.
That was a possibility that the medical examiner had to say about how the "high energy injury" could have happened.
That could have happened while or after Mr gray was kicking and banging his head.
originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: alphastrike101
I have yet to see where an official source said that there are prisoner transport vans in Baltimore PD that have no seat belts, so you have no grounds to say that the particular van in question did not have seat belts.
Anyway, when the police commissioner says that there was no excuse for not belting him into the seat, I think if the van had no belts,, that would have been brought up by now..... at the very least by the FOP or police union representatives.
Also safe to say that shoes hitting metal make a different sound than say your head hitting metal.
It looks like they give a few options of how someone in a moving vehicle can get hurt without a seatbelt but that same Baltimore Sun also reported that most of the vans used do not even have seatbelts.
The people that bother to listen to that one minute of the press conference will come to basically the same conclusion I have on what happened in that van.
originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: butcherguy
Here is the headline.
"Most police vans in Baltimore region lack seat belts - Baltimore Sun"
If my link does not work for you it should be simple to Google.
The police spokeswoman Elise Armacost has come out and said seatbelts do not exist in the vans in question.
The quotes were right from that article.
" none of which have seat belts for prisoners, she said."
Maybe vans in other states and even other counties have seatbelts. Maybe vans that do not hold prisoners have seatbelts.
originally posted by: alphastrike101
originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
originally posted by: alphastrike101
originally posted by: Boadicea
originally posted by: Edumakated
Except for the fact that there were two other prisoners in the van with him who indicated nothing of the sort.
Why do you say that? Was it confirmed somewhere?
I'm not doubting you... I wondered the same thing here. But I never saw it confirmed anywhere.
I think what you call facts, and the rest of society call facts, are different things. Like, Depraved Murder different.
Yes it was confirmed there were two others in there with him. One of the other prisoners is on the record saying that he could hear Mr gray banging his head trying to injure himself.
That same prisoner first denied that he said anything to the police but then admitted he did talk to investigators and told them ie could hear Mr gray banging on the other side of the van.
Yes, at this point it is very clear that you are saying that Freddie Gray killed himself to make the police look bad.
That is apparently your argument.
Unbelievable.
I am only bringing up facts of the matter.
Conclude what you want but the facts are the facts.
originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
originally posted by: alphastrike101
originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
originally posted by: alphastrike101
originally posted by: Boadicea
originally posted by: Edumakated
Except for the fact that there were two other prisoners in the van with him who indicated nothing of the sort.
Why do you say that? Was it confirmed somewhere?
I'm not doubting you... I wondered the same thing here. But I never saw it confirmed anywhere.
I think what you call facts, and the rest of society call facts, are different things. Like, Depraved Murder different.
Yes it was confirmed there were two others in there with him. One of the other prisoners is on the record saying that he could hear Mr gray banging his head trying to injure himself.
That same prisoner first denied that he said anything to the police but then admitted he did talk to investigators and told them ie could hear Mr gray banging on the other side of the van.
Yes, at this point it is very clear that you are saying that Freddie Gray killed himself to make the police look bad.
That is apparently your argument.
Unbelievable.
I am only bringing up facts of the matter.
Conclude what you want but the facts are the facts.
Your definition of 'facts' doesn't seem to fit the legal definition in Maryland.