Is it time we worked together yet on our "gun problem"?

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Answer

Yes, if I had bought one of them a weapon knowing they were unstable or angry. That has been the situation in a lot of the cases like this last one.

I think it is a good idea instead of passing more laws.

Is it confirmed that the parents bought Roof the gun? I am still hearing that he got money for his birthday from his parents, and HE went out and bought the gun. If so, no liability for the parents.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: NavyDoc

No one needs be locked up but perhaps better records are in order if you've ever been a registered mental patient here it will show up when you do a search it will also show up if you have a criminal record,there already are restrictions in your country with regards to these 2 categories for example I believe criminals cant vote there ,now people with mental histories you might allow a lever action or bolt action if they have a clean slate but perhaps not an AR15, Im just throwing ideas out there but as a people your nation has to come to the conclusion guns are not an inaliable right for everybody and that some controls are needed.

When a person buys a gun in a gun store, an FBI background check is performed. The person also must certify that they aren't mentally defective.

That check does not stop them from buying a gun "on the street" or stealing one... which is where many firearms are obtained by criminals.

You're getting too much into the semantics of "this gun is okay but that one is scary." Lever actions and bolt actions are very effective at killing. Most gun-violence is committed with handguns. Just because the AR-15 has been used in a very small number of high profile shootings does not mean it is the end-all-be-all killing machine and people couldn't commit a mass shooting without them. Look at the weapons used in the high profile mass killings... there's quite a bit of diversity.

originally posted by: MOMof3
Yes, if I had bought one of them a weapon knowing they were unstable or angry. That has been the situation in a lot of the cases like this last one.

Try reading up on the case instead of making things up, the family gave him money for his birthday, he went and used it on a firearm.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: Answer

I get your point but there are countless examples like Virginia Tech where individuals who ought not be let near a gun get them legally

How are you aware that he ought not be let near a gun?

Hindsight. That's how.

On the other hand, there are countless other people with a background similar to Cho's who have never and will never use their gun to commit murder.

That's why people knee-jerk about new laws whenever something happens but when rational thought returns, it's realized that no law could have stopped the atrocity.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Answer

Yes, if I had bought one of them a weapon knowing they were unstable or angry. That has been the situation in a lot of the cases like this last one.

I think it is a good idea instead of passing more laws.

You've gone off half-cocked with old information.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Answer

Yes, if I had bought one of them a weapon knowing they were unstable or angry. That has been the situation in a lot of the cases like this last one.

I think it is a good idea instead of passing more laws.

What if you didn't "think" they were unstable or angry "enough"? Just playing devils advocate here. It is a rather subjective and slippery slope where lawyers will makes tons.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
Answer:

Typical when someone runs out of rebuttals...

You don't and never did, have an argument, so there's nothing to rebut. You want your gun no matter who or how many die.

You bet I want to keep my guns! Not one of them has ever killed a human.
I'm a skinny old woman who has been handling and shooting guns since I was 7 years old. I've been carrying concealed since I worked at a hospital where a rapist was targeting women coming out after an afternoon shift. Even though at that time KY had no concealed carry law, I was advised by a cop to protect myself. (The rapist was later killed by a gun-toting nurse, no charges filed against her.)
The only two times in all my life I've ever handled a gun in a danger situation, I didn't even need to point it---just the sight of it by the bad guy caused him to run.
The meth-head with a chainsaw that showed up in my driveway saw my shotgun and decided to depart. I rather suspect that had I showed up on the porch with anything less than a gun, he would have continued his rampage. Yes, I called 911 when he showed up. However, I live in a rural area, where the cops are 10-15 minutes away, so rather than allowing the chainsaw guy to attack my husband, I took responsibility and grabbed the loaded shotgun off the rack.
Later, when a couple of armed meth-heads broke into my neighbor's house and ran when the cops arrived due to the alarm system, I grabbed that shotgun again and set it beside the door. When the sheriff's deputy came to the door to ask if we'd seen anybody running through the field, he saw the shotgun sitting there and said, "Keep it handy."
That's why all this hue and cry about keeping guns and ammo separate, keeping guns locked in a safe is stuff and nonsense. My loaded shotgun is nearby because there are crazy people out there, even in our relatively safe area. Whether they're crazy from drugs or whatever---the mere sight of a weapon in your hands will most likely cause them to flee.
By the same token, if a copperhead is crawling across my yard I'm not going to take the time to unlock a gun safe and load my weapon. Same for a bad guy.
My Daddy taught me to handle firearms safely so that I, a small woman, would be able to defend myself from those who are bigger and stronger and able to do me harm. In over 50 years of owning and carrying firearms, I've never pointed one at another human but I've managed to run two bad guys who showed up on my property off without harm to anyone. I don't think a baseball bat or pool cue would have been as effective in either case.
If you don't want a gun, that's fine with me. But you will NOT take away my right to defend myself and my family simply because some crazy guy gets a gun and starts using it illegally. Two wrongs never make a right. In both cases, the bad guy was apprehended and jailed. Crazy thing is---both were on probation from felony crimes. It was the justice system that had allowed them to continue their criminal pursuits. Since I can't step in and do the job of the justice system, my next best bet is to be able to defend myself from the criminals they release on society.
To the best of my knowledge my family has owned firearms since my ancestors fought the British in the American Revolution and the War of 1812 and yet to the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them has ever murdered anyone. In my lifetime no member of my family has ever shot anyone---or even shot AT anyone. That's not how we act. We shoot soda bottles, watermelons, targets, snakes, squirrels, rabbits and a deer now and then but we're not trained to shoot people and we certainly pray that we are never forced to do so to protect ourselves and our family members.

a reply to: khnum

The Whole damn point of this thread, was for ALL of us to work together and start to put an end to our so called "gun problem". And the only way to do that is to start DEMANDING that all firearm related crimes are enforced to their maximum extent, Until us pro and anti folks DEMAND that, we will never resolve anything. And it proves you anti firearm folks don't give a damn about stopping crime. You just want people to dance when told, nothing more!

We can either join together to ensure all crimes committed with a firearm are enforced to their maximum extent, or we can argue semantics for the rest of our lives...

I seriously don't understand the anti firearm mentality. You wont join us on the pro side to get our current laws enforced, you just yammer on about "new and improved" laws. While we watch our current laws get trampled on and not enforced.

Congrats fellas, GO TEAM!

a reply to: diggindirt

Love it!! You think like me (on this subject anyway).

a reply to: diggindirt

You sound extremely paranoid to me. Funny how these so called crazy "meth heads" are always rocking up on 'your' doorstep to carry out some psychopathic rampage.

The meth-head with a chainsaw that showed up in my driveway saw my shotgun and decided to depart. I rather suspect that had I showed up on the porch with anything less than a gun, he would have continued his rampage

How do you know he was there to attack you? Did you even ask him what he wanted before you came out wielding your shotty? Maybe he was just there to ask if you needed any work down on your house. A chainsaw sounds like an odd weapon for are crazed meth head to rob someone with.

Let's just hope you don't end up shooting someone that rocks up to your house for some random innocent reason, that you decide must be a crazed "meth head" who's come to do you harm.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Seriously, what kind of a fool "rocks up to a house" with a chainsaw?

If my dogs didn't get ya, my wife would...... And I shoot better than them!

a reply to: Subaeruginosa
No, I don't pull a gun unless myself or a family member is threatened. The crazed meth-head was threatening my husband with a running chain saw. He had gone out to ask the dude what on earth made him think he could come onto our property and cut our trees. My husband is the soul of diplomacy---he was not aggressive---a sane person would have cut off the chainsaw and come down and explained his mission. When I saw him shaking the running chain saw and advancing toward my husband---having already called 911---I grabbed the gun.
What would you do if you saw a loved one in that situation?
The other time a guy with a gun was in my yard was because he was casing the place. He thought nobody was home but I was a single mom with a child to protect. I saw a gun in his waistband, called the cops and secured my weapon. I walked to the door with the gun in plain sight at my side and asked him if I could help him find something in my barn. He saw the gun and ran like a rabbit. He was apprehended about a mile down the road, casing another barn.
Those two episodes are the only times in my 61 years that I've secured a weapon due to fear.
For nearly 18 months when the rapist was on the loose in our town I carried a gun in my pocket when I was leaving work after dark. My hand was on it until I certain my car and my person were secure.
My Daddy gave me the means to protect myself and not become a victim. He taught me that my duty is protect myself and my loved ones.
In 1968 I read In Cold Blood and it had a profound effect on me. That was the first time I ever realized that there are twisted people out there who will walk into your home and shoot you for absolutely no reason other than a whim. I remember going to my Daddy and thanking him for teaching me to defend myself and giving me the means to do so.
Perhaps it is paranoia to think that crazy people with twisted brains are out there and won't hesitate to harm you with whatever weapon is at hand. Perhaps it was paranoid of me to think that the whacked-out-chainsaw dude was going to severely injure or kill my husband just because he was acting insane, yelling at the top of his lungs and descending a ladder with a running chain saw, shaking it at my husband as he comes down!
My husband would disagree with you. He is crippled and he couldn't have outrun the chainsaw-wielding lunatic. A wooden cane is no match for a chainsaw.
"Random innocent people" rock up to our place regularly. None of them have ever come to harm. The two who displayed behavior that I deemed threatening are serving time in prison as I write this---for violent attacks on other people. My family could have been in the victim list.
What is it that bothers you about the fact that I am able to protect myself from people who would attempt to harm me?

a reply to: diggindirt

What is it that bothers you about the fact that I am able to protect myself from people who would attempt to harm me?

Nothing particularly bothers me about you being able to protect yourself, in fact, I'm happy for you. I just knew there was far more to your story, than it just being a case of some crazy meth head rocking up to your property to hack you or your family up with a chainsaw. Some people like to think there living in some violent Hollywood movie.

A dispute about a over hanging tree (or whatever) makes much more sense, though far less dramatic, lol.

Peace

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Seriously, what kind of a fool "rocks up to a house" with a chainsaw?

If my dogs didn't get ya, my wife would...... And I shoot better than them!

On that day I was really thankful that I didn't have a dog. I honestly believe that idiot would have maimed, if not killed anything in his way.
When the deputy arrived to take the report my husband described the scene this way: "I was backing up as fast as I could and he was still coming at me with the saw held out in front of him, revving it up. I had no idea why he suddenly ran until I turned and saw my wife on the porch with the phone on her shoulder and the shotgun in her hands. That's my bride!"
Because I grew up handling firearms and am a former huntress, my skill surpasses his with firearms. He did make "expert" in marksmanship during his tenure in the US Air Force. Luckily, we both enjoy just burning powder from time to time, no competition in that area. Never hurts to hone one's skills.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa
The "dispute" was indicted and convicted as as felony terroristic threatening but that just added to the list of violent offenses for which he is currently serving. "Overhanging tree" was in my yard, overhanging my yard in proximity to nothing (no utility lines, if that's where you're heading) other than my other trees and my home. Under no circumstances would he have had the vaguest reason to attempt to use a chainsaw on that tree. Nobody knows why he was going through the neighborhood doing such crazy stuff.
Now will you please answer my other question?
Given those circumstances, would you simply stand on the porch and watch him chase your husband down and whack him up with the saw? Or would you distract the guy's attention and let him begin to chase you in hopes you could outrun him?

First the law should be any one that shoots a felon with a firearm during a crime by the felon will never be charged with any crime.

Self defense is not and should not be a crime.
www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...

What the hell happened to this thread?

Page after page after page after page of people arguing back and forth on what legislation needs to be enacted on a freaking tool.....

The tool is not the issue.

The "root cause" here is an out of control pharmaceutical empire, who hands out mind altering poison like candy...

I honestly wish we had a window into some "bizzaro world" without guns so you people could see that mass murderers would kill regardless of the tool.

I, as a Texan foremost, American as an afterthought, will never under any circumstance lay down my arms to be governed by a totalitarian regime with a monopoly of force. I will die first. Anybody who would ask me to do so is a freaking idiot.

Focus on the damn drugs that cause these incidents... You people need a scapegoat???? Take it out on the doctors that prescribe the nonsense that causes this.....

Nobody is perfect... Everybody is a killer to some extent. How far it goes is dependent on the fuel.... Fueled by hatred?... You could take out a few folks. Fueled by patriotism?... You could take out a few folks... Fueled by passion?... You could take out the focus of your obsession.... Fueled by mind altering SSRI medication??>.... The sky is the freaking limit.. It is not a drug that makes you stupid. It is a drug that makes you methodical, patient, and heartless. It is amazing that we have not had more of these crimes than we have.

Guns are not the damn problem.

Get over your pacifistic freaking righteousness. I am that guy, a pacifist that is, but pacifism only exists to an extent. It is an ideology that can be challenged only so far... Once the pacifist is pushed past that point, they will lash out with a furor. Pent up rage is powerful like "crazy stupid with a purpose".

These drugs enhance that.

Gawd!!! Reading through this thread is just infuriating.. It's like navigating a maze of selfish stupidity on both sides when the path was already revealed.

What the hell?

originally posted by: Answer

When a person buys a gun in a gun store, an FBI background check is performed. The person also must certify that they aren't mentally defective.

That check does not stop them from buying a gun "on the street" or stealing one... which is where many firearms are obtained by criminals.

That is not entirely true. You can go into a Walmart or Sports Authority and buy a gun. The only thing they do (and I know this from experience working there for a few HORRIBLE months) is that we had to call a number from the ATF. We give them the buyers SS# and within 5-10 seconds they give an approval number, or a denial number and that's it. In fact we were told flat out to be as fast as possible with it.

As far as handguns go.. that is a different story.. at least where I live in NYS.


As a separate note... I'm a little tired of hearing people cry about "new laws" for gun control. Even today I heard some guy on a local talk show saying that "gun buyers should have to get insurance when they purchase a firearm." That is ridiculous. 99% of gun buyers follow the law. The CRIMINALS steal the guns, or use straw buyers. Straw buyers should be punished just as if they pulled the trigger. But dumping MORE laws on us law abiding gun owners is too much. I agree with background checks. Hell I even agree with having to register your firearm. But this insurance, no-clips with more than 9 rounds, one year waiting period stuff is crazy.

originally posted by: DerekJR321

originally posted by: Answer

When a person buys a gun in a gun store, an FBI background check is performed. The person also must certify that they aren't mentally defective.

That check does not stop them from buying a gun "on the street" or stealing one... which is where many firearms are obtained by criminals.

That is not entirely true. You can go into a Walmart or Sports Authority and buy a gun. The only thing they do (and I know this from experience working there for a few HORRIBLE months) is that we had to call a number from the ATF. We give them the buyers SS# and within 5-10 seconds they give an approval number, or a denial number and that's it. In fact we were told flat out to be as fast as possible with it.

Uh yeah... that "number from the ATF" that you had to call is the FBI instant background check system. You didn't only give the SS#, you gave their name, place of birth, date of birth, height/weight, race, and type of firearm being purchased.

You get an approval, denial, or a delay.

I'm a dealer, bud.

a reply to: Answer

So your point is that for the number of guns in the country the level of gun crime is quite low and that there isn't any problem that murder still occurs elsewhere and that no amount legislation or restriction can ever stop a Virginia tech or similar at least you have argued that calmly and unemotionally.All I know is that in my country there has been no mass murders since 1998 when our current laws were introduced what we did here works for here as for what happens in your country your correct it will most likely be nothing.