Suspect(s) in armoured vehicle in standoff after gunfire at Dallas Police Dept. HQ

a reply to: Kali74

I got two things out of that.

1) some barely coherent ramblings which are anti-everything.

2) he likes Alanis Morissette.

Still stand by what I said before. I'm sure the label will be applied to him but I don't think it's a solid fit. At least not right now. Perhaps something will come out from the 911 conversations that explains why he did what he did. I still think he did what he did simply because he wanted to eff stuff up.

a reply to: Shamrock6

2) he likes Alanis Morissette.

I caught that too lol. Wouldncha know today is the 20th (wtf?) anniversary of the release of "Jagged Little Pill"?

I'm all for stepping back from that label but the double standard in the media is pissing me off.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Sremmos80
So if this is about getting his kid back and mad that he was labeled a 'terrorist' and his response is to go and attack the police department, it should be considered a terrorist attack right?

Sounds like (in this case) the police were correct in their prior assessment of him. Imagine that. They got something correct for a change...and didn't break into his home a shoot him to death for that suspicion? They let him wallow in his mental delusions and this was the result.

< sarcasm > Where are the anti-cop haters when you need them...but then, it could have been their plan all along to further curtail our collective rights < /sarcasm off >

Oh stop. Most of us "anti-cop" haters don't hate police at all. We just want the same rights & protections the 14 Amendment guarantees us. And we want police to treat us like humans instead of like animals. Our complaints have nothing to do with this situation, hence why we' have no reason to make comments against the police in this situation.

And for the record, I've never once called for violence against police or violence against our government. This is ironic to me because many "patriots" on this very site make posts calling for militant resistance against "the tyrannical government". But those same people act like they're pro-law enforcement without realizing their militant resistance against the government would cause them to face off against the same law enforcement they claim to support. You know, because militant resistance to the government is illegal. Hence why the "equal rights crowd" doesn't use armed resistance or terrorism to make our case for increased citizen protections.

But you don't seem to care about the facts. You just wanted to use this terrorist attack as an excuse to bash American citizens who have nothing to do with this situation and who don't even support this terrorist's methods.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

To quote a famous old movie character, "...lighten up Francis."
It was a lighthearted bit of sarcasm, in a very tense and serious situation. Hit a nerve did I, sorry there Huckleberry.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled and politically monitored news story.

ETA: And for the record, this was not a terrorist attack. What was that about ME ignoring the facts again?

a reply to: Kali74

Agreed, that's why I said misapplied. Not every nutter with a gun is a terrorist. Some are. Some are just nutjobs and some have just been pushed too far.

And thanks for making me feel a little older.

"I'm much too young to feel this damn old." - Garth Brooks

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

To quote a famous old movie character, "...lighten up Francis."
It was a lighthearted bit of sarcasm, in a very tense and serious situation. Hit a nerve did I, sorry there Huckleberry.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled and politically monitored news story.

ETA: And for the record, this was not a terrorist attack. What was that about ME ignoring the facts again?

I guess we just have a different view on terrorism. I believe it fits the working definition of terrorism when people make a plan to attack someone illegally, arm themselves to enact that illegal plan, and then launch their planned attack at their intended targets. After all, isn't that supposedly what those 2 Muslims did in Texas before being gunned down at the scene? I believe both situations were instances of domestic terrorism.

And that still doesn't change the fact that you used this terrorist attack as an excuse to bash American citizens who had nothing to do with this situation.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Merriam Webster Dictionary (online)L Terrorism

Definition of terrorism:
terrorism
noun ter·ror·ism ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm

: the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal


So far, I've seen nothing reported stating his goal was politically motivated. Therefore, it seems this was not a case of terrorism, which means it also cannot be labeled as "domestic terrorism" either.

As a fellow American myself, what does nationality have to do with any of my statements at all? Frankly I do not understand your fixation on that aspects which are irrelevant. Sounds more like a strawman argument to me. But, that is my opinion.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Oh I definitely think he fits how we use the label today but I agree our current usage needs to be walked back from.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

terrorism when people make a plan to attack someone illegally, arm themselves to enact that illegal plan, and then launch their planned attack at their intended targets.

By this definition every meth dealer who loaded up his guns and his boys to go get the guy that never paid for his 8-ball is a terrorist.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

By your definition any murder, attempted murder, assault with deadly weapon, etc is now an act of terrorism.

Just because an act scares people doesn't qualify it as terrorism.

a reply to: neo96

If he was Muslim and had a problem with the police and did what he did, there would be no debate over the term terrorism, even on ATS

I wonder why he didn't buy this one instead... it has been on Craigslist for awhile.

SWAT Van

a reply to: Shamrock6

Apparently criminal = terrorist because if you commit a crime you're scaring the crap out of someone. Ol' Baby Face Nelson and Al Capone should have been sent to Gitmo.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Merriam Webster Dictionary (online)L Terrorism

Definition of terrorism:
terrorism
noun ter·ror·ism ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm

: the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal


So far, I've seen nothing reported stating his goal was politically motivated. Therefore, it seems this was not a case of terrorism, which means it also cannot be labeled as "domestic terrorism" either.

As a fellow American myself, what does nationality have to do with any of my statements at all? Frankly I do not understand your fixation on that aspects which are irrelevant. Sounds more like a strawman argument to me. But, that is my opinion.

Ironically I feel the same way about "terrorism" and its definition. That's why I said "I believe it fits the working definition of terrorism". Because this is the same working definition of terrorism that most Muslims are charged under.

There's an entire category of "terrorists" called "black widows", who are literally grieving mothers and widows of murdered drone victims & victims of foreign wars. They feel they've been pushed too far & are convinced to do suicide bombings in order to avenge their murdered loved ones. Politics has nothing to do with their attacks but it's still considered "terrorism". The same goes for many "lone wolves" who do similar plots as the guy in the OP. They aren't trying to change the political system; they feel like they've had enough & were pushed too far.

But I believe they each fit the working definition of terrorism, just as I consider the guy in this attack a terrorist. And for the record, there's no universally agreed upon legal definition of terrorism. And word meanings change over time (new words & definitions are added into dictionaries every year). That's why many countries use "terrorism" as an excuse to persecute legitimate political opposition. Egypt & Ethiopia are examples of this and they both use "terrorism" as an excuse to imprison journalists critical of their governments.

Like I said, I actually agree with you on that. I just think that if we're going to label, prosecute, and imprison one group under this definition of "terrorism", we need to apply it equally. Just as I think people who physically attack abortion clinics are terrorists. They're literally using violence and/or the threat of violence to force a political or social change. Hence, terrorism.

As for nationality. You mocked the "anti-cop hater crowd". I explained that we're simply American citizens who want to be treated equally as the 14th Amendment says. So I was reminding you that we're also American citizens, not some group of outsiders. It wasn't a strawman argument, just a reminder to the joke you made.

EDIT: Sorry! Just realized you weren't the one who made the anti-cop hater joke. I'll delete that part if you want (though time is ticking because I can't change it forever).

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

I'm a former Cav scout and I don't LIKE video games.
I SPEAK from professional skills.

originally posted by: Answer
I wonder why he didn't buy this one instead... it has been on Craigslist for awhile.

SWAT Van

I'd love to have it. It's a good price and those vans are extremely easy to work with.

originally posted by: quercusrex
a reply to: enlightenedservant

terrorism when people make a plan to attack someone illegally, arm themselves to enact that illegal plan, and then launch their planned attack at their intended targets.

By this definition every meth dealer who loaded up his guns and his boys to go get the guy that never paid for his 8-ball is a terrorist.

And yet, if it was a Muslim meth dealer who loaded up his guns and his boys to go get the guy that never paid for his 8-ball, he would be considered a terrorist.

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: Answer
I wonder why he didn't buy this one instead... it has been on Craigslist for awhile.

SWAT Van

I'd love to have it. It's a good price and those vans are extremely easy to work with.

No kidding. The 7.3L diesel is definitely the preferred engine in a Ford.

If it was 4wd, it would be fun to get it and turn it into the ultimate bug-out/zombie defense vehicle.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: enlightenedservant

By your definition any murder, attempted murder, assault with deadly weapon, etc is now an act of terrorism.

Just because an act scares people doesn't qualify it as terrorism.

I said the "working definition". And yet, if a Muslim commits any murder, attempted murder or assault with deadly weapon, it is considered terrorism. Does anyone ever check if those people have documented mental health issues, have a legitimate grudge with their target, etc? No. In fact, most of the Muslims in Gitmo weren't even charged with a single crime. Yet they're were captured, imprisoned, and some were tortured as "terrorists".

Even look at the "bugsplat" victims of drone strikes. The Obama administration considers any male of "mature age" a "terrorist" if they're in the vicinity of a drone target. So when they killed, they're also counted as "terrorists". even though they haven't done anything to legally be considered a terrorist.

a reply to: enlightenedservant
Didn't think Muslims were allowed to use or deal meth. So, no he'd just be labeled as a bad Muslim and a criminal.

Ok. I'm gonna stop now because this is starting to be thread drift territory. The Dallas wack job was not an anti-american political terrorist.