Programmers...Could it be done in 6 Days if Virtual Reality?

a reply to: Char-Lee
Interesting perspective on the garden aspect and what if we were on auto-pilot. If the consciousness of the real beings were to be removed, their avatars would just disappear from the virtual reality, as when you leave a video game while it is in progress. The other players can keep playing until the last one signs out. I would hypothesize based on revelations in the new testament. I do remember that there was something in there about the disappearance of individuals who are taken up out of this world. I would have to imagine that being I am still conscious...my real conscious being is still actively conscious and such a disaster has not occurred.

Oh my, just had a memory hit me like a ton of bricks! Didn't Star Trek the Next Generation have an episode where two of their hologram characters become conscious and wanted out of their box? The crew create a virtual reality for the two to make them believe they were real living beings exploring the universe but it was still not real just stored all on a holographic data chip! ( I probably seem like such a nerd for watching this stuff, but I cant be alone!) lol.

originally posted by: fakedirt
a reply to: Char-Lee

depends on the span of their day or ours I wonder.
2nd
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I was surprised at this response. I understand it now, I think. When not knowing any particular detail of the problem it makes sense to categorize and quantize the task. Defining the 'day' is a natural first step in that direction.

I, on the other hand, immediately thought of the question of throughput. Those six days are a specific chained sequence of throughput automata that requires the previous days outputs/definitions to create the next days. From sound, to vision, to up-down, to growth, hunger, and on and on with the senses accumulating like overlapping fields of existence.


One program I wrote uses a simple life routine in Assembly to grow a planet. The process uses a.i. to self define, skin the surface of the planet and create a 3d skin with all the coordinates saved in a usable format for the combat/survival engine. It takes about 5-15 seconds. Any character that moves on this planet can easily move forward, back, left, right, turn, jump, crouch, and the logic of the skin will circle them all the way around to back where they started if they move in a straight line long enough.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Char-Lee

Weeeell... The universe would never be able to be properly simulated with binary computing, because things aren't always an either/or answer. in fact, they usually aren't. So no programmer would be able to adequately answer your question in the OP.

One just uses a smaller subset of binary then. If something isn't always yes/no give it ten bits, and it's only yes when all ten are switched on, or more than five, or what ever ratio / specific mode you require. In fact the vast majority of everything we experience is an accumulation of something else's experience. Even light. The color it has is the result of it's life story.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mikegrouchy


hide your mechanism

originally posted by: Char-Lee
Hide it? We can't see the program right, why and how would it be hidden? Could you not just start and stop any process you desire? If fully automated would it be an if/when/or command situation?

It is a lesson that was learned back in the early days of Diablo 2 Battlenet. There was a 'kill(player_name)' command in the code. It was found, a hack written, and people could kill anyone in the game... from town ... just by typing.

The lesson learned is that any code included in the game _will_ be found. The industry began by restructuring the way some code worked. But these days they are just doing more and more server side only computing (hence the rise in games that _have_ to be online to work). The user base cannot hack what isn't there. They can only feel the effects.


Mike Grouchy

Actually the bible defines a day by the morning when it gets light, so it is a 24 hour period

a reply to: Barcs


An entire generation is also referred to as a day.

The bible says that a day to God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as one day.



Scientists say that the universe came into existence in less than a second......

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: mikegrouchy

why restrict all access to it in the simulation

Some people die and come back it seems, does that count? Maybe it is a reward only for goal of the "player"?

My own focus group research shows that mercy is not natural in the young, and must be trained into them. Otherwise they have a tendency to use resurrection to punish enemies over and over again. In real world terms, if resurrection techniques were just laying around someone would probably want to kill Hitler, six million times. Long before anyone would use it to bring back the righteous, the just, or the peaceful.

One kid, and I quote "There's this one bully, and I would kill him, then I'd resurrect him and say 'have you learned your lesson', and I'd kill him, then I'd resurrect him and say 'have you learned your lesson yet?', and I'd kill him, and..." All while he had a very determined look in his eye and making hand gestures like holding someone by their throat and slashing with the other hand.

Until society gets a grip on itself, perhaps resurrection is best left _off_ of the table.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: dusty1

Actually the bible defines a day by the morning when it gets light, so it is a 24 hour period

a reply to: Barcs


An entire generation is also referred to as a day.

The bible says that a day to God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as one day.

Scientists say that the universe came into existence in less than a second......

Even so it SOUNDS as though it is referring to the created human environment day.

God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: mikegrouchy

how does one insulate the simulation from outside influence?

Would you need to if you were the one creating it? it would really only be your influence right? Unless a virus was introduced?

I know how to start and stop my computer that's about it soooo:-)

We can be fairly sure that our existence here on planet earth circa 2015 is not a simulation because no bot-gold-seller has popped up spamming the place with "Players of Earth, Resurrection rods, only 5000 souls @ Antares trading post." In fact a great deal of the angst present in the poetry of mankind through the ages is aimed at the apparent vast emptiness of the universe and our lack of "visitors" proving there is something else.

Outside influence.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Interesting, yes indeed having raised two children I realize from birth there is a meanness and cruelty which needs training out.

Until society gets a grip on itself, perhaps resurrection is best left _off_ of the table.

Looking at it from a virtual reality point of view, it seems like less a big deal. It would be boring fairly soon to punish an enemy over and over I think. Erasing his program would not help, setting him up to live a horrid existence that would be the thing.

There is the problem, all of this life and world could be looked at as a punishment colony. If we were real people who committed crimes and placed in a virtual world that is in fact a prison for discipline and death coming as the release date dictates per crime..poverty, illness added for worse crime, it would make more sense.

I guess the rich and powerful suffering here would be upper class and political prisoners in the cushy prison environment.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
There is the problem, all of this life and world could be looked at as a punishment colony. If we were real people who committed crimes and placed in a virtual world that is in fact a prison for discipline and death coming as the release date dictates per crime..poverty, illness added for worse crime, it would make more sense.

I guess the rich and powerful suffering here would be upper class and political prisoners in the cushy prison environment.

Oh, my! How dismal. Who would pay to play that game?


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: dusty1
An entire generation is also referred to as a day.

The bible says that a day to God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as one day.

And we all know that is wrong as well. Yeah, I know the bible says that, but even 1000 years is way too short of a time frame for what is claimed in genesis. In genesis, it is very clear they are talking about literal days because they talk about the evening coming and the night leading to morning and it follows each day. If they were just random periods of time designated by god, then why mention day and night (which somehow existed before the sun and stars)?

This is why I feel we shouldn't be referencing the bible when comparing the universe to a computer program. The bible is too metaphorical and the definitions of things are obscured by the old language being translated to ours
.

Scientists say that the universe came into existence in less than a second......

They do? Last I checked, the only scientific claim is that all the energy in the universe was very close together and condensed, and then expanded. It says nothing about how it came into existence in the first place or how long it took.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: Char-Lee
There is the problem, all of this life and world could be looked at as a punishment colony. If we were real people who committed crimes and placed in a virtual world that is in fact a prison for discipline and death coming as the release date dictates per crime..poverty, illness added for worse crime, it would make more sense.

I guess the rich and powerful suffering here would be upper class and political prisoners in the cushy prison environment.

Oh, my! How dismal. Who would pay to play that game?

Mike Grouchy

Hmmm...perhaps not a entertaining game after all. What if we are all prisoners serving out our correctional time via a virtual earthly reality?

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
My own focus group research shows that mercy is not natural in the young, and must be trained into them. Otherwise they have a tendency to use resurrection to punish enemies over and over again. In real world terms, if resurrection techniques were just laying around someone would probably want to kill Hitler, six million times. Long before anyone would use it to bring back the righteous, the just, or the peaceful.

One kid, and I quote "There's this one bully, and I would kill him, then I'd resurrect him and say 'have you learned your lesson', and I'd kill him, then I'd resurrect him and say 'have you learned your lesson yet?', and I'd kill him, and..." All while he had a very determined look in his eye and making hand gestures like holding someone by their throat and slashing with the other hand.

Until society gets a grip on itself, perhaps resurrection is best left _off_ of the table.

Interesting post. I feel that the reason folks may be less susceptible to showing mercy these days is because of the way that the "grown ups" run this country. You don't see our government turning the other cheek or showing empathy for others. You don't see the government showing mercy to its enemies or taking the high road and showing we are above that type of behavior. It's always about revenge, even for them. If this is what our leadership does, why the hell would you expect the youth to do anything different? We just don't live in that type of society and we are all a product of society and I do feel that the average person is kind, empathic and willing to show mercy. WIth kids it's just monkey see monkey do. They don't understand complex concepts like empathy and mercy yet.

One of the first mistakes I see being made in many of these posts is the notion of programming all of this manually. This form of creation as you seem to see it, well it's extremely limted. As the OP pointed out, using pre-established patterns and god like knowledge there would be no need to enter the formulas into some vast unintelligible language. You just need to know it, understand it and sort of imagine it being where you want it to be.

Think of the Matrix, think of Neo. Think of what we really define as VR, a fully immersive reality that intercepts the signals transmitted by your brain and causes appropriate actions in a controlled environment. If your brain is the controller, the keyboard, the mouse, then all that would be required to program a reality on this level would be your own damn mind.

Over half of you just jumped into the technical definition of a 'programmer" and "vr" instead of using your imaginations just a little.

So Barcs, to answer your question.

Let there be light.

Funny how that covers both nuclear fusion and consciousness so easily, huh?

a reply to: Thorneblood

So in other words, you can NOT program a universe in 6 days. Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry, but you have to program the templates FIRST, before you can use them and the universe isn't as simple as a single pattern or template explaining everything. You are invoking magic and being intentionally obscure. There is nothing imaginative about that in the least. It's clear to me you have never programmed a thing in your life and your imagination is limited to broad generalizations and bible quotes. Sorry that we are talking about the actual meaning of the words "programming" and "programmers," but that is the topic, not biblical creationism and magic. You said you could program a universe in 6 days. Go ahead and do it. You'll be famous beyond belief.

Funny how that covers both nuclear fusion and consciousness so easily, huh?

How about, no. Care to try again, or are you just trying to promote creationism with metaphors rather than addressing the topic of virtual reality?

Where did the light come from? What about the laws of physics? How did you create the light? Care to explain how light = consciousness, and what exactly it has to do with nuclear fusion? Are you all powerful? Do you have abilities that the rest of us do not or are you just talking out of your backside and pretending to be god? The latter seems more likely.

And seriously, who creates a virtual reality with so much wasted space and resources? Any programmer would be fired instantly for intentionally making bulky unnecessary code for billions of stars and planets with no life on them. The universe is about as far from looking programmed as you can get.

a reply to: Barcs

You really didn't read OP's initial post at all did you?

a reply to: Thorneblood

You really didn't read my posts at all, did you?

I was responding to your claim that you could program a universe in 6 days and your accusation that we just lack imagination because we acknowledge the numerous problems with the idea. The OP's post made numerous assertions that are pure guesses. I obviously do not agree with the assessment, the assumptions, or how both of you have over simplified what it would take to create something of that magnitude. Again, the topic is virtual reality, not biblical creationism. Care to try again without invoking magic or the bible? Or you could just concede that you actually CANNOT create a universe in 6 days, and I won't respond to you again in this topic.

a reply to: CynConcepts

The crew create a virtual reality for the two to make them believe they were real living beings exploring the universe but it was still not real just stored all on a holographic data chip! ( I probably seem like such a nerd for watching this stuff, but I cant be alone!) lol.

I own them all! Love them all!

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Ah I see.
I play the old Everquest and that is the extent of my gaming but love that one. I wonder when I see trees that look like dog heads and letters in cave walls if the creators always add their own secret addictions to games...faces in clouds and mountains perhaps

a reply to: Barcs

Sorry Kid but if you cannot see how wrong you are then I cannot show you the way. Cheer up, I am sure given as much time as YOU would need the reality you would create would be passable. You just aren't on my level son.